Yurolov Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 hour ago, mkabi said: Easy there.... Wait till it comes out with full specs... For all we know, it can be a 4K camera like the Fuji X-A5. That turned out to be a real mind f_ck... Just go look that up at bhphotovideo.com (look at the highlights, then go into the specs section and see the frame rate). lol 15fps - 8mm anyone?? I personally don't understand the pessimism. Their mirror less cameras generally have ibis if I am not mistaken and the new ones have dpaf. Clog will not be in the camera but the great colour, autofocus, ibis, small package (perfect for gimbal work), and perhaps rotating screen should be more than enough to compensate. Plus no overheating and no crappy ergonomics. I don't expect much from the codec and it will probably have a crop factor but it will still sell well as the images should be close enough to the competitors where the actual tools given, like autofocus and ibis, will have more impact in the overall image than having h.264. Having this on a gimbal would be a dream. And I am sure an in post log workflow will be developed. The just need to make sure the 4k is acceptable, not like the mush 1080p in the m5. It could be the first camera with great ibis and industry standard autofocus (in 4k). I'd say it sells well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noplz Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Current EOS M5 has digital image stabilization, not IBIS. Not sure how well it works. Come to think of it, I don't think any Canon bodies have IBIS... I think the people who actually buy entry level Canikon products don't really cross-shop anything else. Timotheus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Maze Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Best part of this announcement is the discovery of 2 things: 1: a new sensor design from canon (probably the new aps-c standard for the next few years). 2: Digic 8 processor. Clearly this new processor can handle 4K paired with the new sensor. So a Canon 7D or 90D soon with better video implementation coming soon? Also, imagine a 1DX mkiii with dual Digic 8 processors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyger11 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Quote 39 minutes ago, Yurolov said: I personally don't understand the pessimism. Their mirror less cameras generally have ibis if I am not mistaken and the new ones have dpaf. Clog will not be in the camera but the great colour, autofocus, ibis, small package (perfect for gimbal work), and perhaps rotating screen should be more than enough to compensate. Plus no overheating and no crappy ergonomics. Whose mirrorless cameras generally have IBIS? You're not talking about Canon, I hope, because Canon have zero cameras with IBIS. The newer ones have EIS, which is "electronic image stabilization", which is basically in-camera warp stabilization (not very good warp stabilization, to boot). IBIS refers to a hardware-based moving sensor type system, which is far more effective. EIS often results in a weird watery effect to your footage which can't be fixed in post (as far as I know). No overheating in existing cameras because they're not DOING as much as 4K cameras are. Way less data and processing. We'll see what Canon can come up with. 39 minutes ago, Yurolov said: I don't expect much from the codec and it will probably have a crop factor but it will still sell well as the images should be close enough to the competitors where the actual tools given, like autofocus and ibis, will have more impact in the overall image than having h.264. I suppose it's technically possible, but Canon has refused to provide anything like what the state of the art is like some of their competition, aside from AF and color science (which has just been surpassed by the Fuji X-H1 as far as I'm concerned. Some good things with color science are being reported with the new Panasonic GH5S. 39 minutes ago, Yurolov said: Having this on a gimbal would be a dream. And I am sure an in post log workflow will be developed. The just need to make sure the 4k is acceptable, not like the mush 1080p in the m5. I think it's more likely we'll get 4K mush, but the proof will be in the pudding. 39 minutes ago, Yurolov said: It could be the first camera with great ibis and industry standard autofocus (in 4k). I'd say it sells well "industry standard" is not the same as "class-leading". If all you want is what you typed, then Sony, Panasonic, Olympus, and now Fuji have been offering that for some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yurolov Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 9 minutes ago, tyger11 said: My mistake - I havent looked at their mirroless cameras in a bit (rightly so). I remember the m5 having decent stabilization; I incorrectly assumed it was ibis. It will still sell well but the points raised are valid. I think the color science in their cinema range (all the way from the c100) is leagues ahead of their dslr range. The colors in the dslr's are overyhyped. Fuji can be a lot more cinematic. The Gh5s also looks good (they have improved a lot since the days of the GH4). I have known industry professionals who have relied on dpaf in their professional work so i would say it is the standard. It is a deciding factor for many people at the very least, I think we can both agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damphousse Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 41 minutes ago, noplz said: Current EOS M5 has digital image stabilization, not IBIS. Not sure how well it works. Come to think of it, I don't think any Canon bodies have IBIS... I think the people who actually buy entry level Canikon products don't really cross-shop anything else. What decent cameras under $1,000 have IBIS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyger11 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 33 minutes ago, Damphousse said: What decent cameras under $1,000 have IBIS? The GX8, GX85, and OM-D E-M5 Mark II come to mind. 57 minutes ago, Yurolov said: I have known industry professionals who have relied on dpaf in their professional work so i would say it is the standard. It is a deciding factor for many people at the very least, I think we can both agree. I think we're using the word 'standard' differently here. I consider Canon's DPAF industry leading, not merely 'standard'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzynormal Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 But the colors! My god everyone! THE COLORS! THE COLORS! Rinad Amir, IronFilm, User and 4 others 1 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryB Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Andrew, you've been right so far about Canon, I don't think anything has changed with their strategy. This is simply an attempt to have some relevancy in this part of the market. I'm pretty sure they are not going to be coming in for the kill and trying to shake the industry. Like you've said before, there will be plenty of limitations with this camera. They're not about to push the boundaries and risk hurting their mid and high end markets. Even though I don't think it would.......they think it would and this is why it will be a good camera but with a number of limitations. It will be somewhat throttled. Hopefully, I will be pleasantly surprised but after listening to you speak the truth for forever and a day.......I have more doubts than faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyger11 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 21 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said: But the colors! My god everyone! THE COLORS! THE COLORS! Meh. Other manufacturers are solving their color issues. Panasonic seems to have solved its color issues as of the GH5S, and Fuji hit it out of the park with the Eterna film simulation in their X-H1 (and check out that B&W Acros simulation sometime). We'll see what Sony has up their sleeve with their next releases. It's not like that talent doesn't exist within Sony - check out the F65 sometime. They just need to figure out how to bring that skill down into the prosumer products. Sony is hungry; they'll figure it out sooner or later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkabi Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Yurolov said: lol 15fps - 8mm anyone?? Technically, you can't argue that that isn't a 4K camera... And if Canon went down this route.... It's going to be an ongoing cruel joke that only Canon peeps seem to get... But, Im afraid that this is probably the only thing they can do to say that they are working on it, to keep current customers from leaving and not hurt the cinema line ( and/or higher end cams like the 1dx2 and 5DiV) 3 hours ago, Yurolov said: It could be the first camera with great ibis and industry standard autofocus (in 4k). I'd say it sells well It will definitely sell... Not sure who to blame.... I remember saying that the number of dumb peeps outnumber the smart ones. Oh well, whatever.... I want the work that I bring out of any gear that I use to speak for itself - I don't care if it's Panasonic, Sony, Fuji or otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hijodeibn Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 oh Gosh....I have been waiting a camera like this for a while...I hope Canon doesn't screw up at last minute this time.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keystar Insurance Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Damphousse said: What decent cameras under $1,000 have IBIS? Panasonic G85, GX85, GX9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted February 21, 2018 Super Members Share Posted February 21, 2018 The only 4K camera that I have used that's ever shown any signs of aliasing was the NX1 (and so rare its a non issue) Canon included. So I would be very surprised if it turned out to be a problem with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandro Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 One word: LOL. IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Sewell Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Actually Canon are very canny, as a business, when it comes to releasing new cameras. Here's the thing - we all know that Canon have the resources and the patents to bring to market a stunningly advanced mirrorless camera. We all get frustrated because they continually fail to do so and we wonder why. Well. If Canon were to produce such a camera it would, undoubtedly, dominate the market and sell in the millions. But for how long? Canon know that they have a number of very hungry competitors snapping at their heels who are apparently willing to spend pretty much whatever it takes to build market share. Any amazing camera from Canon would only have the market to itself for what? A year? 18 months? By that time PanaFujiOnyUs would leapfrog them and the cycle of huge R&D investment would start all over again. Where is the benefit in that to Canon? They know that they can release cameras that tick a few boxes and are 'just good enough' for Mum, for Dad, for the kids on their gap year trip to Thailand and sell oodles, getting a great ROI - and they can do that year after year, model after model, because their market position is such that the vast majority of people's first 'proper' camera is always a Canon (see also white lens effect). The moral of the story is - don't waste emotional energy expecting anything ground-breaking in a Canon mass market camera. That's not their segment. mkabi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted February 21, 2018 Super Members Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 hour ago, sandro said: One word: LOL. Thats not one word. Its an abbreviation of three words Gordon Zernich, Kisaha, sandro and 1 other 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 My first thought is if Nikon doesn't (re)launch their mirrorless this year with 4K, then they're doomed on this forum. However.... we don't know how much Canon will cripple the M50: 17 hours ago, Andrew Reid said: In the leak to Japanese website Nokishita-Camera the specs are bare-bones, only stating “4K” – no frame rates. For instance, who wants to place bets on 4K 15fps happening? Haha 17 hours ago, Andrew Reid said: Also the new sensor is a 24.1MP APS-C (1.6x crop) CMOS – 24MP is 6K – will Canon crop 4K out of this sensor as they did on the 5D Mark IV, resulting in a tight 2.4x crop like the Samsung NX500? Then it’s practically Super 16! Exactly. 17 hours ago, Andrew Reid said: Then there’s the codec – are we FINALLY finally finally going to see H.264?! Or will they stick with MJPEG, which seems like suicide on a camera aimed at so many Vloggers and Youtubers. Hopefully H.265 not H.264, but that is totally unreasonable to expect from Canon. 8 hours ago, OliKMIA said: Best case scenario they don't fuck it up too hard and it might become a decent camera for Vlogers and gimbal work. By the time Canon implements acceptable 4k30 with little crop, everybody else will be doing HDR, 10 bits, 4k120 and 8k30... Truth. 6 hours ago, noplz said: I think the people who actually buy entry level Canikon products don't really cross-shop anything else. Exactly. Any "cross shopping" they do comes from the store's salesperson. 6 hours ago, DaveAltizer said: 1: a new sensor design from canon (probably the new aps-c standard for the next few years). How do we know this is a genuinely new sensor? Because their latest APS-C DSLRs have 24.2MP, and this is 24.1MP?!?!? Maaaaaaaaybe 6 hours ago, tyger11 said: "industry standard" is not the same as "class-leading". If all you want is what you typed, then Sony, Panasonic, Olympus, and now Fuji have been offering that for some time. Good point, "standard" and "best" are not necessarily one and the same. 5 hours ago, Damphousse said: What decent cameras under $1,000 have IBIS? As well as the others mentioned, the Panasonic G85/G80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 4 hours ago, tyger11 said: We'll see what Sony has up their sleeve with their next releases. It's not like that talent doesn't exist within Sony - check out the F65 sometime. They just need to figure out how to bring that skill down into the prosumer products. Sony is hungry; they'll figure it out sooner or later. Not just the F65, but also F35/F3/F23 and their latest one "Venice". Heck, FS7/F5/F55 are fantastic too. Just Sony took their time with them (so not everyone has a fair opinion of them, and really appreciate them for what they've developed into), but eventually Sony has brought out LC709a for instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kisaha Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I give ZERO chances that this will be the mirrorless to end them all (at least at mid-low price), and even though the specs are entry level (better than laughable entry level Fuji A5 of,course) to mid, the price will be much higher than 1000$/euros. The physical layout and ergonomics remind an advanced point and shoot, and not a pro mirrorless. If they play their cards right, I see a lot of the recently - going a6300/a6500 to adapt my EF lenses, crowd - moving to a Canon mirrorless for their native EF/EF-S lenses. Canon still has some time left in their tank. Nikon is in the worst situation, a similar Nikon mirrorless won't do a dent to the industry (it will sell more than some other brands, but maybe won't be enough to keep Nikon afloat). Do not forget that Canon have APS-C mirrorless since 2012. The good think is that they will update everything above that ( like @DaveAltizer said, 8D, 90D, and hopefully, even C100mkIII) really soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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