Yurolov Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 The camera is very small. It won't be able to handle heavy processing. That's a fact. You can't expect too much from a small body. Look at the overheating with the a6500 and this is smaller than that. So don't expect anything fantastic from this camera. It just isn't possible with the size. It's clearly aimed at vloggers for which it's likely crippled codec will be sufficient. The size and price range all point this direction. And you have to consider the compromises the a6500 has when shooting 4k. If you are outside in bright daylight you can't see the LCD. Hence why the SmallHD focus is so popular. That's a large added expense. Canon have never had this problem. Their lcds are fantastic and all are viewable in bright daylight. They do things right even though they are late to market. The camera has to be useable first. If that means they have to compromise on the codec or cropping to get a small form factor 4k camera then so be it. But don't see why people are expecting anything else. The form factor is too small. This won't hurt gh5 sales but it should kill the a6500 et al. I owned the a6500 and sold it purely based on ergonomics and the above issues. Image differences will be based more on the user than camera, so I want something that feels good and actually works. Kisaha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inazuma Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 13 hours ago, Yurolov said: The camera is very small. It won't be able to handle heavy processing. That's a fact. You can't expect too much from a small body. Look at the overheating with the a6500 and this is smaller than that. So don't expect anything fantastic from this camera. It just isn't possible with the size. It's clearly aimed at vloggers for which it's likely crippled codec will be sufficient. The size and price range all point this direction. And you have to consider the compromises the a6500 has when shooting 4k. If you are outside in bright daylight you can't see the LCD. Hence why the SmallHD focus is so popular. That's a large added expense. Canon have never had this problem. Their lcds are fantastic and all are viewable in bright daylight. They do things right even though they are late to market. The camera has to be useable first. If that means they have to compromise on the codec or cropping to get a small form factor 4k camera then so be it. But don't see why people are expecting anything else. The form factor is too small. This won't hurt gh5 sales but it should kill the a6500 et al. I owned the a6500 and sold it purely based on ergonomics and the above issues. Image differences will be based more on the user than camera, so I want something that feels good and actually works. Not sure who this post is aimed at.. I don't think anyone here is expecting anything uncompromised. Thinking about it tho, I will be surprised if there is a crop because it wouldn't be vlogger friendly mkabi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JurijTurnsek Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Panasonic and Olympus are hard proof that 4K processing can be a non-issue even in small bodies (as was Samsung with NX500). This is proprietary know-how and that is why Fuji, Sony, Canon and Nikon struggle with their implementation. When one brand figures it out, they don't go rushing to the competition to share their knowledge. And the issue lies with processing power and the heat generated from CPU and not so much the sensor - a hot sensor will only read more noise, but will not melt the whole camera body. Gordon Zernich 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yurolov Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 6 hours ago, Inazuma said: Not sure who this post is aimed at.. I don't think anyone here is expecting anything uncompromised. Thinking about it tho, I will be surprised if there is a crop because it wouldn't be vlogger friendly Literally everyone on here saying that canon will intentionally cripple the camera (which they might), but there is only so much you can get out of a small-bodied camera for 4k video. 5 hours ago, JurijTurnsek said: Panasonic and Olympus are hard proof that 4K processing can be a non-issue even in small bodies (as was Samsung with NX500). This is proprietary know-how and that is why Fuji, Sony, Canon and Nikon struggle with their implementation. When one brand figures it out, they don't go rushing to the competition to share their knowledge. And the issue lies with processing power and the heat generated from CPU and not so much the sensor - a hot sensor will only read more noise, but will not melt the whole camera body. Firstly, don't you find it interesting that the only companies able to achieve this feat are micro four thirds companies. Of course it has to do with sensor size. From memory, the NX500 had a dramatic crop in 4k mode. I think modern aps-c cameras are getting to this point and canon will only enter the market if the camera will do what they intend it to do. But in this case it will be more of a hardware limitation than intentional crippling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Romero 2 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 On 2/23/2018 at 11:22 AM, eoslover said: most eos m owners already own that 22mm, its a sharp and fast lens but really not suitable for arms length vlogging 11-22mm probably much better, even with 2.4x crop it is 26mm which is totally fine without crop the 15-45mm is perfect it will be the best seller in youtube industry and hurt a lot of Sony/Panasonic entry - mid range budget cameras As a sony shooter, I hope it DOES put the hurt on Sony. That will pressure Sony to keep innovating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kisaha Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Small bodies do not bode well with heat. Examples: Panasonic did the GH5 as big, or biggest, than traditional full frame dSLRS to fight heat inside the body, and offer all these amazing video capabilities. Sony and their well know issues with overheating. Fuji did a big a camera as the GH5, with a lot less video capabilities (+crops like the Sony's), and you have to add the battery grip for basic operations, like a headphone jack (and to fight the limiting video recording) and look at all the Nikon and Canon's with their huge crop. The technology is not a given, and today's materials are reaching their limits. Graphene! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yurolov Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Exactly what I am saying. The GH5 is a huge camera and it needs to be - and that's with a m43 sensor. But you already have people complaining on here that the m50 will be crippled cause such and such reason and they don't even mention the size limitations, which size was put in place specifically for the vlogging crowd. Everyone on here will have to wait for the ff mirroless, if any, to see what canon are really holding back/giving. In the end this camera will be far better than the a6500 cause you will actually be able to see what you are shooting in bright daylight and the colors will be a heck of a lot better and it will be far, far cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damphousse Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 2 hours ago, Yurolov said: But you already have people complaining on here that the m50 will be crippled cause such and such reason and they don't even mention the size limitations, which size was put in place specifically for the vlogging crowd. It could be as big as a house and there would be a decent chance it is crippled in some inane way. Those are two entirely separate issues. True there could be some legit limitations but the past has shown us there is a decent chance there will also be some illegitimate limitations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yurolov Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 55 minutes ago, Damphousse said: It could be as big as a house and there would be a decent chance it is crippled in some inane way. Those are two entirely separate issues. True there could be some legit limitations but the past has shown us there is a decent chance there will also be some illegitimate limitations. That's why I said let's wait and see what they do with their ff mirroless as this format lends itself more to the hybrid shooter (mirrorless, that is). If they are going to give us proper video it should be in mirroless camera with all the benefits that come from that and in a larger camera. Hardware limitations are the sole reason, I would argue, for any compromise in this camera. It seems you have to make compromises somewhere at this form factor - the a6500 choose to make their compromise an unviewable monitor at 4k, and I think that is the wrong decision. The camera is no use if you can't see what is being shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Ash Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 27 minutes ago, Yurolov said: the a6500 choose to make their compromise an unviewable monitor at 4k, and I think that is the wrong decision. The camera is no use if you can't see what is being shot. A6500 video shooters seem to give the crapy monitor a miss and use a rubber eyecup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Kotlos Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Well, its announced. 4K, dual focus, but not at the same time. That's Canonizing for you. And if not enough, enjoy the 2.5 crop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yurolov Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Lot of good that does on a gimbal. In any event the specs have dropped and looks like no dpaf in 4k and 1.6 crop factor. Like I said, this camera is tiny and I didn't expect too much at that price. I am excited for the m5 mark ii when that comes out to see what they got. Just a shame about the autofocus makes this camera basically useless for its intended purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Oh imagine my surprise that this is ending up another piece of crap, half assed camera from Canon. Drink the Cool Aide boys. From DPR, "it's a 1.6x crop from a 1.6x crop sensor, meaning a 2.56x crop relative to full frame." Jesus Christ LoL. And you thought a BMPCC was bad! ntblowz and Aussie Ash 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yurolov Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Its an entry level camera, calm down. Let's see what they do with their higher spec cameras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeys Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 No DPAF in 4K too. The only good feature not working with the feature that many people want! Gordon Zernich and webrunner5 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 So yeah, big crop and no DPAF in 4K... so basically the same crop as the GH4... add a Speedbooster and you’re at 1.7x crop. And if the Tracking AF is as good as it is in the G7X Mark II, it will still have the best AF in its class... and the crop will let me get Canon 4K (which looks pretty good) with C-Mount lenses... so that’s kinda cool for the glovebox camera I’m looking for. Kisaha and Mattias Burling 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntblowz Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 23 minutes ago, mercer said: So yeah, big crop and no DPAF in 4K... so basically the same crop as the GH4... add a Speedbooster and you’re at 1.7x crop. And if the Tracking AF is as good as it is in the G7X Mark II, it will still have the best AF in its class... and the crop will let me get Canon 4K (which looks pretty good) with C-Mount lenses... so that’s kinda cool for the glovebox camera I’m looking for. unfortunately there is no speedbooster for EF-EF-M tyger11, Gordon Zernich and webrunner5 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 1 hour ago, ntblowz said: unfortunately there is no speedbooster for EF-EF-M Well, there’s this one which seems to have no electronics... https://m.ebay.com/itm/Focal-Reducer-Adapter-EF-EOSM-With-Optical-Glass-Fr-Canon-EF-Lens-To-EOSM-Camera-/322688363117 And there’s this one that claims to be electronic where the AF works... https://www.ebay.com/i/302623520529?chn=ps&ul_ref=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-117182-37290-0%2F2%3Fmpre%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fi%252F302623520529%253Fchn%253Dps%26itemid%3D302623520529%26targetid%3D399820213091%26device%3Dm%26adtype%3Dpla%26googleloc%3D9003787%26poi%3D%26campaignid%3D1029894471%26adgroupid%3D50980675872%26rlsatarget%3Dpla-399820213091%26abcId%3D1130056%26merchantid%3D6296724%26gclid%3DEAIaIQobChMI_4LMnYvD2QIVi7jACh2j8wyjEAQYAiABEgJeKfD_BwE%26ul_ref%3Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Frover.ebay.com%25252Frover%25252F0%25252F0%25252F99%25253Floc%25253Dhttp%2525253A%2525252F%2525252Frover.ebay.com%2525252Frover%2525252F1%2525252F711-117182-37290-0%2525252F2%2525253Fmpre%2525253Dhttps%252525253A%252525252F%252525252Fwww.ebay.com%252525252Fi%252525252F302623520529%252525253Fchn%252525253Dps%25252526itemid%2525253D302623520529%25252526targetid%2525253D399820213091%25252526device%2525253Dm%25252526adtype%2525253Dpla%25252526googleloc%2525253D9003787%25252526poi%2525253D%25252526campaignid%2525253D1029894471%25252526adgroupid%2525253D50980675872%25252526rlsatarget%2525253Dpla-399820213091%25252526abcId%2525253D1130056%25252526merchantid%2525253D6296724%25252526gclid%2525253DEAIaIQobChMI_4LMnYvD2QIVi7jACh2j8wyjEAQYAiABEgJeKfD_BwE%252526rvr_id%25253D0%26srcrot%3D711-117182-37290-0%26rvr_id%3D1451233315404 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntblowz Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 4 minutes ago, mercer said: Well, there’s this one which seems to have no electronics... https://m.ebay.com/itm/Focal-Reducer-Adapter-EF-EOSM-With-Optical-Glass-Fr-Canon-EF-Lens-To-EOSM-Camera-/322688363117 Oops there is actually one with electronic connector.. custom hand made though https://www.ebay.com/itm/EOS-EOSM-Focal-reducer-Auto-focus-adapter-EF-EFM-EF-to-EFM-EOS-to-EOSM-Booster/302623520529?hash=item4675c47711:g:jj0AAOSwPhdVPkMd Wonder if Chinese brand will jump onboard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 But I would just get a Nikon F to EF-M focal reducer and use focus peaking which works really well on the EOS-M cameras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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