are those gimbals a good buy?

[Don Kotlos]

14 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

 

135mm lens is always a 135mm lens, no matter what it is on!

But if you're saying it is a 67.5mm lens on a MFT... :-P Then sure, that could be interesting! 

Length as in literally the length from the front element to the mount.

[scotchtape]

I frequently use the 35-100m w gh5 on gimbal.  Love those tele shots especially with motion. Which is why I keep complaining about the is on the panmy 35-100.

[Matthew Hartman]

6 hours ago, Don Kotlos said:

I assume 135mm is the actual length of the lens .

But I guess with a moving 135mm focal length you can get some very interesting perspective effects .

Yeah, if that effect is an induced seizure. ?

[Dan Wake]

I hope my gimbal will be enough to stabilise this

[Gregormannschaft]

Love gimbals for some select shots, like walking and panning down to reveal your protagonist walking, but I do find that longer shots will show this very artificial movement characteristic they tend to have. Steadicams don't have that kind of effect and that's a massive plus if you're shooting something with a more naturalistic feel.

[Don Kotlos]

8 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

Yeah, if that effect is an induced seizure. ?

Using compression with moving shots can create some very interesting effects of things moving at different speeds or directions. You can also use it as another way of blurring the background with moving subjects, or even keeping the tight perspective when the subject moves towards or away from the camera. 

Here is one example with a 100mm lens, but there are plenty for you to explore. 

You might not like it but as a cinematographer you should open your mind and be able to use tools to their full extent. 

[scotchtape]

There are so many tracking shots with telephoto lenses in films, I don't understand why you think they are seizure inducing... Common shots are cityscapes and Aerials as well as tracking characters. Not to mention smaller frame = lower costs (set design)

Gimbal makes both of these accessible to those of us with no budget where we couldn't do this before (including interesting parallax in urban landscapes).

Also the movement can be subtle (as it often is in 24p to avoid judder) so I'm not sure why you think we are swinging the camera wildly around.

 

[fuzzynormal]

On 3/5/2018 at 7:21 PM, Matt Holder said:

Dont be afraid of a simple steadicam as well - a lot less hassle once you get it set up (i use both)

I too get excellent results from using a bulky Glidecam. (a poor man's steadycam knockoff)  So much so I've never seriously considered getting a gimbal.  I like gimbals and have used them, just never utilize those sorts of shots enough to justify a purchase.  

Old Glidecam rigs are cheap and big.  Both of those facts actually make it a great high-value tool.  More mass=smoother shots.

1 hour ago, Don Kotlos said:

Here is one example with a 100mm lens, but there are plenty for you to explore.... You might not like it

What shooter in their right mind dislikes long lens shots?

[Matthew Hartman]

3 hours ago, Don Kotlos said:

You might not like it but as a cinematographer you should open your mind and be able to use tools to their full extent. 

Oh trust me my friend, I'm usually the guy that gets all the sideways looks and glances in the room. I was joking about the seizure just in case that wasn't clear.

2 hours ago, scotchtape said:

There are so many tracking shots with telephoto lenses in films, I don't understand why you think they are seizure inducing... Common shots are cityscapes and Aerials as well as tracking characters. Not to mention smaller frame = lower costs (set design)

Gimbal makes both of these accessible to those of us with no budget where we couldn't do this before (including interesting parallax in urban landscapes).

Also the movement can be subtle (as it often is in 24p to avoid judder) so I'm not sure why you think we are swinging the camera wildly around.

 

You would think the emoji would have made it abundantly clear my comment was in jest.

Work with me people!

[Dan Wake]

the problem is that gimbals only stabilise 3 axis, this is not enough cause there is another axis they should stabilise but they don't. that's what a professional steadycam do with the extra arm that came from the chest vest.

 

now ok there are some exceptions such as the Osmo accessory, and some enormous rig to mount to gimbals as the movi or the ronin, but the true is they should add something new, built in the gimbal itself, to solve this problem imho.

[Matthew Hartman]

9 minutes ago, Dan Wake said:

the problem is that gimbals only stabilise 3 axis, this is not enough cause there is another axis they should stabilise but they don't. that's what a professional steadycam do with the extra arm that came from the chest vest.

 

now ok there are some exceptions such as the Osmo accessory, and some enormous rig to mount to gimbals as the movi or the ronin, but the true is they should add something new, built in the gimbal itself, to solve this problem imho.

I attach my Z Crane v1 gimbal to a shock-absorbed boom arm mounted to a vest. Two things happen here. The fourth axis is shock-absorbed, where these 3-axis gimbals totally fall apart the most, and I'm also not wearing out my arms holding up a metal pistol grip all day. Spent muscles are shaky muscles. 

[Dan Wake]

2 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

I attach my Z Crane v1 gimbal to a shock-absorbed boom arm mounted to a vest. Two things happen here. The fourth axis is shock-absorbed, where these 3-axis gimbals totally fall apart the most, and I'm also not wearing out my arms holding up a metal pistol grip all day. Spent muscles are shaky muscles. 

is it possible to develop a fourth axis thas is electronic? that have an electronic brain as the other 3 axis of the gimbals do?  because they may easly put the fourth axis in the handle of the gimbals if so..... and I do not understand why they stopped at 3 axis.... is it a techincal reason or just people do not ask for a butter smooter movements?

[Matthew Hartman]

29 minutes ago, Dan Wake said:

is it possible to develop a fourth axis thas is electronic? that have an electronic brain as the other 3 axis of the gimbals do?  because they may easly put the fourth axis in the handle of the gimbals if so..... and I do not understand why they stopped at 3 axis.... is it a techincal reason or just people do not ask for a butter smooter movements?

Wouldn't a fourth axis/contact point not allow 360° rotation? 

What could be done is have the Y shock absorbed with fluid or a internal sping in the grip. I think? 

Don't be afraid of dolly cart/track systems either. They're still well utilized in the industry. You can build a DIY system for cheaper than a lot of these gimbal systems and get much more reliable results. Of course you sacrifice mobility. 

Or mount your gimbal on the back of an electric golf cart. Get inventive. The only thing that matters at the end of th day is the shot. There's NOTHING wrong with hacks. 

I recently did a facing tracking shot sitting on the back of my hybrid car holding my gimbal. Smooth as buttah'.

[scotchtape]

I use my gimbal with the ninebot/segway mini pro

Awesome sauceeeee.

[Mark Romero 2]

4 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

I attach my Z Crane v1 gimbal to a shock-absorbed boom arm mounted to a vest. Two things happen here. The fourth axis is shock-absorbed, where these 3-axis gimbals totally fall apart the most, and I'm also not wearing out my arms holding up a metal pistol grip all day. Spent muscles are shaky muscles. 

Is there any way you could post a video / photo of this in use???

1 hour ago, Dan Wake said:

is it possible to develop a fourth axis thas is electronic? that have an electronic brain as the other 3 axis of the gimbals do?  because they may easly put the fourth axis in the handle of the gimbals if so..... and I do not understand why they stopped at 3 axis.... is it a techincal reason or just people do not ask for a butter smooter movements?

One thing I have done which SEEMS to help is inclining the gimbal forward about 25-degrees or so (certainly less than 45). This seems to help mitigate the up-and-down motion that is not otherwise controlled with a 3-axis gimbal.

[Matthew Hartman]

41 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Is there any way you could post a video / photo of this in use???

One thing I have done which SEEMS to help is inclining the gimbal forward about 25-degrees or so (certainly less than 45). This seems to help mitigate the up-and-down motion that is not otherwise controlled with a 3-axis gimbal.

I'll try to rig it up and send photos and an example video this weekend. 

[buggz]

And then there is this...

https://tilta.com/shop/armor-man-arm-t01/

Check out the video.

[IronFilm]

Not exactly a gimbal, but damn this is potentially cool:
 

If however it is capable of being used very very fast for high speed shooting? And if its price is reasonable. 

High speed shooting such as like this (but cheaper!):
 

 

 

[Mark Romero 2]

50 minutes ago, buggz said:

And then there is this...

https://tilta.com/shop/armor-man-arm-t01/

Check out the video.

Way too complex for me... Just going to tape a GoPro to the head of a chicken and be done with it.

 

[Matthew Hartman]

3 hours ago, buggz said:

And then there is this...

https://tilta.com/shop/armor-man-arm-t01/

Check out the video.

My setup is not too much different than this, although I have one arm that connects to the front of the vest. I have my tension slightly pushing upward so I use a little weight to push the gimbal down for a bit of constant contact and shock absorption. It still requires some technique, (most do) but it definitely helps with not having a sore back and arms.  

I'm dreading the Ursa's weight and size when I get it. I'm not sure what direction I'm going with for stabilization. I might have to stick with good ole ENG over he shoulder for awhile. (For tracking scenes) Not opposed to fitting my vest with a glidecam either. Thank god I'm not into heavy action films.