Zacuto: C200 vs EVA1 - Camera Shootout

[Kisaha]

This could be interesting.

https://www.facebook.com/events/1544566642516956/

https://vimeo.com/255468760

 

 

[BTM_Pix]

Its interesting how much raging debate there was in threads about these two cameras when they were announced.

Did anyone on here actually ever buy one in the end?

[Kisaha]

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

Its interesting how much raging debate there was in threads about these two cameras when they were announced.

Did anyone on here actually ever buy one in the end?

Of course not, we are all waiting for the Zacuto shotout!

Seriously, the C200 is on no man's land right now. I have a week long shooting with it on a couple of weeks from now, but the lack of a middle codec is huge for me, as shooting raw is like 0,3% of my workflow, and if I need more, we always rent camera/lenses anyway (C300mkII is just excellent for most jobs). 

I would like to have reliable touch focus in my next video camera, though, there are rumors for "a new C camera, and another videocamera that don't belong to the C line".

C100mkIII and C300mkIII are rumored, and I have posted here a patent for an XC type camera, with IL(interchangeable lenses). The oldest C camera is the C100 right now, but it could make sense to see something like a C400, and a lowly XC camera with EF-M mount. The second could be an instant hit (if have touch focus and good old Canon 1080p and some kind of 4K).

An XC camera with the 22mm and the 11-22mm could be amazing for most jobs, and of course there is a native adapter as well.

 

[BTM_Pix]

1 minute ago, Kisaha said:

Of course not, we are all waiting for the Zacuto shotout!

Seriously, the C200 is on no man's land right now. I have a week long shooting with it on a couple of weeks from now, but the lack of a middle codec is huge for me, as shooting raw is like 0,3% of my workflow, and if I need more, we always rent camera/lenses anyway (C300mkII is just excellent for most jobs). 

Why the hell someone at Atomos isn't going "You know what, that 4 year old Ninja Star product could do with an updated version that does 4K" I just dont know.

They do a lot of stuff aimed at other cameras like GH5 and even LS300 and yet there is this Canon shaped gift horse giving them a massive toothy grin and they sail right by.

 Maybe at NAB they might release one and shut me up!!

[spinkscapes]

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Its interesting how much raging debate there was in threads about these two cameras when they were announced.

Did anyone on here actually ever buy one in the end?

I have a C200. Absolutely stunning camera.
Didn't even consider the EVA1 or watch any reviews so can't compare.

[webrunner5]

Zak on here has a EVA1. Some of his screen grabs are just beautiful.

[Kisaha]

2 hours ago, spinkscapes said:

I have a C200. Absolutely stunning camera.
Didn't even consider the EVA1 or watch any reviews so can't compare.

Have you used the C100mkII by any chance? Are the low light capabilities similar (in 1080), what about ISO performance in 4K?

I guess the ergonomics are better than the C100.

Do you have any advice for 1080 settings, or anything else I should be aware of?

[Snowfun]

Cloakroommedia have a good demonstration of the C200 at high ISO in low light. There’s also some useful stuff on Matthew Allard’s MZed “course”. 

[IronFilm]

17 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Did anyone on here actually ever buy one in the end?

Have multiple friends who purchased an EVA1, can't think of anyone at the moment who got a C200 who I personally know here in Auckland. But I'm sure they exist.

16 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Why the hell someone at Atomos isn't going "You know what, that 4 year old Ninja Star product could do with an updated version that does 4K" I just dont know.

They do a lot of stuff aimed at other cameras like GH5 and even LS300 and yet there is this Canon shaped gift horse giving them a massive toothy grin and they sail right by.

 Maybe at NAB they might release one and shut me up!!

A Ninja Star 4K so you could have a super small device automatically giving you ProRes 4K files out of the C200 would be a game changer for many folks. 

Or heck even if they just made a small monitor recorder with a 5" screen that does 4K, as no one else does that aside from Video Devices

15 hours ago, spinkscapes said:

I have a C200. Absolutely stunning camera.
Didn't even consider the EVA1 or watch any reviews so can't compare.

I'm very surprised that with a purchase of that magnitude a person didn't even consider the EVA1 for a moment. 

 

 

 

[spinkscapes]

22 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Have you used the C100mkII by any chance? Are the low light capabilities similar (in 1080), what about ISO performance in 4K?

I guess the ergonomics are better than the C100.

Do you have any advice for 1080 settings, or anything else I should be aware of?

Probably not the person to ask as:
a. I've never shot with the C100; and
b. I've always shot the C200 at UHD.

9 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I'm very surprised that with a purchase of that magnitude a person didn't even consider the EVA1 for a moment.

I know the "no middle codec"  makes the C200 dead in the water for many but I preferred the C200 for a variety of reasons, not least of which:
1. better autofocus;
2. internal RAW;
3. the EVF;
4. the Canon skin tones; and
5. my familiarity with the Canon menu system.

I find that the size difference between a HQ Pro-res file and the Cinema RAW lite is negligible and the post-production workflow issues I currently contribute to Adobe's incompetence rather than the codec. I am happy to edit in Resolve in the meantime.

[Kisaha]

Well, that was interesting indeed!

A short recap. Even thought I quote, I probably mis-heard a few words.

1. Some Bruce Logan wisdom first "maths don't lie" raw>10 bit>8bit

"You can't re-light in post" and "now I light exactly like film"

"Every modern camera is like a different film stock"

In short,

- Lighting is always about direction, not volume.

Tim Smith, Canon senior advisor admitted that for broadcast you have to shoot raw (yes, specs can be a serious thing), and after been pushed a bit, admitted that people should ask for it and Canon read the blogs and reviews (my guess is, they are waiting the C300mkII to die out, and offer that later) and the more people ask for it, the more the possibilities of it happening (it seems that Japan HQ are holding back the whole decission).

EVA is sharper than Canon, and more saturated in the highlights (I am not sure if the second one is better or worst, but Logan mentioned it a few times).

Logan concluded that the big advantage for Canon is "flesh tones" and Panasonic their highlights (bright, he said) and night shots (dual ISO, they shot in base and 2500 for both cameras, so both base ISO for EVA!).

They are all looking forward for HDR, but not for the two extremes but the little details in between.

Eva was 2 years in the making. 95% on their polls didn't care for an EVF (or using third party ones). Similar results for Canon, that is why they have two versions (and gimbals, of course). Bruce Logans doesn't care at all about EVFs (I am with him!)!

Ergonomics and usability at the top of the list for both manufacturers, and Logan added the workflow, too.

There are more videos on line testing the cameras, ISO, rolling shutter e.t.c

[Alt Shoo]

On 3/14/2018 at 5:22 AM, BTM_Pix said:

Its interesting how much raging debate there was in threads about these two cameras when they were announced.

Did anyone on here actually ever buy one in the end?

Eva1 owner here! Truly an amazing cinema camera. It’s definitely in the Varicam range of image quality!

[Kisaha]

7 minutes ago, Alt Shoo said:

Eva1 owner here! Truly an amazing cinema camera. It’s definitely in the Varicam range of image quality!

After watching the shootout and the videos, the EVA grew a few inches in my mind!

The C200's benefit is internal raw (but EVA will give a few internal codecs and external raw in a week or two, that was said in the shootout) and most importantly DP touch AF (that is still a strong selling point for Canon). In everything else the EVA seems like a better bet. It even has a programmable 3 positions switch (inside joke for whoever watched the aforementioned video!)!

[deezid]

How could anyone judge detail from that 720p stream wrapped in 4K? o.O

[webrunner5]

On 3/14/2018 at 11:06 PM, IronFilm said:

 

 

Watch this video from 16:30 to 17:30 and you be given a good insight on how to expose for the best finial output. I agree completely with what he is saying on the majority of shots. Nothing can apply to every shot.. Especially with the gear most of us can afford, and that is 8 bit. A Waveform monitor is sort of a must have though.

[TheRenaissanceMan]

1 hour ago, deezid said:

How could anyone judge detail from that 720p stream wrapped in 4K? o.O

They uploaded the full res comparison clips to YouTube.

[deezid]

3 hours ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

They uploaded the full res comparison clips to YouTube.

 

3 hours ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

They uploaded the full res comparison clips to YouTube.

They will upload the real 4K version tomorrow.

The one on YouTube is 720p in 4K wrapper. Already confirmed.

[ntblowz]

8 bit 420 couldn’t really hold up in resolve that well if you want a certain look that is more extremely graded than usual, our company was planning to get c200 since we have few c100mkii atm, but after doing a $20k job (using my Gh5s/gh5 beside the c100） now we have hard time deciding ? , the 420 8bit in c100 is a pain in the bum for our colour stylist unlike gh5’s 422 10bit

 

raw as is not a option for us since we already have a hard time keep up with free space giving the volume we are working

[Kisaha]

1 hour ago, ntblowz said:

8 bit 420 couldn’t really hold up in resolve that well if you want a certain look that is more extremely graded than usual, our company was planning to get c200 since we have few c100mkii atm, but after doing a $20k job (using my Gh5s/gh5 beside the c100） now we have hard time deciding ? , the 420 8bit in c100 is a pain in the bum for our colour stylist unlike gh5’s 422 10bit

 

raw as is not a option for us since we already have a hard time keep up with free space giving the volume we are working

A lot of people I know are in similar situation. Hard to justify the amount of money without a middle codec. Raw is just too specialized for most jobs, and with only 14minutes per CF card, you need a bunch of those, and someone to empty them constantly.

I know for sure that people are using GH5's for video clips, when a few years ago it was unheard to use such a cheap camera.

[andrgl]

5 hours ago, Kisaha said:

A lot of people I know are in similar situation. Hard to justify the amount of money without a middle codec. Raw is just too specialized for most jobs, and with only 14minutes per CF card, you need a bunch of those, and someone to empty them constantly.

I know for sure that people are using GH5's for video clips, when a few years ago it was unheard to use such a cheap camera.

You know what's nuts about Canon and the C200?

It has a 10-bit codec. But you're forced to shoot at 60fps.

125 MB/s for 12bit 30p. 125 MB/s for 10bit 60p.

 

Canon doesn't want us to have 50MB/s 10bit 30p.

lol

 

Won't be renting this camera anymore. Shoots a great imagine, wanted to buy it, but the media issue is seriously fucked. Only 1 cfast slot, and no 10-bit 30fps.