Putting together a lens set - to cine or not-cine?

[ThomHaig]

Hey folks.

I recently changed over from an a6500 to a GH5. The a6500 was decent, and nicely portable, but I can attest to all the caveats being a pain. It really felt like a deal with the devil / one of those clichéd genie-in-a-lamp stories that teaches us about greed!

Either way,  I've sold up everything Sony-related bit of gear I had and am enjoying getting my head around the GH5. I'm impressed with the ergonomics and how customizable it is. Also, Dual IS is brilliant.

So now I'm planning on blowing some money on a little lens set for photo and video use. Having been back and forth a bit regarding native / boosted lenses, I'm  quite drawn to the Samyang native MFT primes. I'm considering the 12mm / 21mm / 35mm / 50mm. (though maybe not all at once) Now here's my question: Most, or all of these seem to be available in photo and cine versions. I can't see myself using a follow-focus rig any time soon, and intend to use these mostly for hand-held video, and some casual photography. 

Would be great to get people's thoughts on if I should go for cine versions where possible. I've used the samyang 85mm f1.4 cine version before, and found pulling focus with the geared ring a little uncomfortable. Are the focus throws the same on the photo versions?

Cheers for any help.

[jonpais]

If you’re planning on shooting both photo and video and aren’t doing any rack focusing, there is no advantage to buying cine lenses.

[mercer]

I think it depends on what kind of shooter you are. I am a lazy shooter. I shoot wide open and use a variable ND to ride exposure. If you are a more traditional, proper shooter, then the cine version with the declicked aperture will give you the minute adjustments you may need for proper exposure in certain situations.

I’m also a one lens kinda shooter. I shoot run and gun and usually don’t have the time or opportunity to change lenses, so I zoom with my feet. I’d love a compact, lightweight, fast zoom but they don’t really exist. So with that being said, maybe get the focal length you’ll use most for video in the cine version and then the other two in the photo version...

Just a thought.

Btw, I have used both the 12mm and the 21mm and was very impressed with both lenses. The 21mm is a great focal length for Micro 4/3.

[webrunner5]

I would consider buying the native 14-140mm, latest version lens for just the times you don't want to carry a bag of lenses, and want casual AF, and a one size does all thing. They are a damn good lens for the money used. MF pretty much sucks on Any and All m4/3 Panasonic lenses though because of the Fly by Wire thingy. But just about every company now has the same problem other than a few select Olympus lenses with the Clutch thing in them. Not sure about Fuji lenses though. Never owned a Fuji APSC lens in my life. Lot of Fuji B4 lenses, old Medium Format lenses though.

I used the 14-140mm a lot on my Panasonic AF100, and other than focus I never said hell I wish I had bought X, X lens with me other than Low light. It is a damn sharp lens if you get the right one. But I am like @mercer I tend to stay at one focal length even with a zoom on a take, and with a variable aperture lens like the 14-140mm is you need to shoot at same F stop or it can look wonky. So pretty much in manual mode. You are going to have to be in manual mode anyways on the Cine lenses. Otherwise just take your time, and that is pretty much the best way to do video unless you are trying to keep up with Sports or Children.   But I have found the later 14-140mm has pretty fast AF on the newer bodies in auto. Never used one on a GH5 though.

[charlieanderson]

Take a look at the new Olympus PRO primes. They are fast and sharp, with round bokeh balls, and the barrel doesn't telescope. With the clutch in the auto position, focus throw is about twice that of the Sigma 18-35. You can make gentle adjustments that don't disturb a hand held camera. And unlike the Voigtlanders the focus ring is in just the right position to balance the camera with you palm and focus with your fingers. With the clutch in the manual position you have the option of using a focus gear if you want that option. Unlike the Veydras they do breath a bit. The 12 has been announced but won't be available until later in the year.

BTW I tried autofocus on the Olympus PRO lenses using the 179 degree trick. Not quick to find focus, but much better than adapted glass at maintaining focus on a face so long as the actor doesn't move too quickly and DOF is shallow. The Sigma 18-35 is a failure at both finding and maintaining focus. The Panasonic 12-35 is the king of auto follow focus on the GH5, but admittedly it is a very small kingdom and I haven't yet used in on an actual shoot.

[anonim]

I'd say - cine version. Manual focusing is all about rejoice with root in natural feeling - and using smooth aperture ring better corresponds with that base feeling (of effortless, self-oblivion flow with time and nature

[IronFilm]

15 hours ago, ThomHaig said:

I'm  quite drawn to the Samyang native MFT primes. I'm considering the 12mm / 21mm / 35mm / 50mm. (though maybe not all at once) 

 

My view is never ever buy Samyang/Rokinon in a mirrorless mount (if another option exists).

As all the lenses are identical across the range of mounts they're offered in.

Because lenses should last you a long long time, across many camera bodies.

This you want a mount which is as adaptable as possible to the maximum extent, which is why I went with Nikons for my Rokinon Cine DS set:

http://ironfilm.co.nz/rokinon-cine-lenses/

 

[webrunner5]

16 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

 

My view is never ever buy Samyang/Rokinon in a mirrorless mount (if another option exists).

As all the lenses are identical across the range of mounts they're offered in.

Because lenses should last you a long long time, across many camera bodies.

This you want a mount which is as adaptable as possible to the maximum extent, which is why I went with Nikons for my Rokinon Cine DS set:

http://ironfilm.co.nz/rokinon-cine-lenses/

 

Good advice.

[ThomHaig]

Cheers very much for the advice & recommendations, guys.

7 hours ago, IronFilm said:

My view is never ever buy Samyang/Rokinon in a mirrorless mount (if another option exists).

Totally get where you're coming from on this, and that buying Nikon / Canon mount would be a better long-term investment. That said, my weedy branch arms would probably be a bit challenged lugging around the Full frame glass & the adapter for long periods. I like how compact and lightweight the MFT lenses are on the body.

 

18 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

MF pretty much sucks on Any and All m4/3 Panasonic lenses though because of the Fly by Wire thingy.

yeah, that's why I'm looking to grab the samyangs - am I right in thinking by virtue of them being manual / no electronics that they'll not be fly-by-wire, right?

I already have the Panasonic Leica 12-60mm as it came with the GH5 I picked up. It  has a great long range, bit slower than I'd like, but great to have something with Dual IS2.

[IronFilm]

29 minutes ago, ThomHaig said:

Totally get where you're coming from on this, and that buying Nikon / Canon mount would be a better long-term investment. That said, my weedy branch arms would probably be a bit challenged lugging around the Full frame glass & the adapter for long periods. I like how compact and lightweight the MFT lenses are on the body.

I think you're missing my point, the Nikon and MFT Rokinons are *EXACTLY* the same!

Except, the MFT lenses are a teeny bit heavier! :-o

(because of the different flange distance)

Arguing against buying them in Nikon/Canon mount instead of the identical lens in MFT is not a strong argument at all. 

[Laurier]

If you go for M4/3 native lenses, get the voigtlander 0.95 lenses if you want a nice organic/cinematic image, or get the panasonic/olympus 2.8 zooms if you want the convenience.

Personally, I go for convenience over look, I m a solo shooter and anything too heavy/big tend to slow me down.

[ThomHaig]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

I think you're missing my point, the Nikon and MFT Rokinons are *EXACTLY* the same!

Hey, think there might be a bit of a misunderstanding - I'm looking at the Samyang's line of lenses that are exclusively for mirrorless cameras. For example, they do a 35mm f1.4 for DSLRs that weighs 660g, and a 35mm f1.2 for mirrorless that weighs 420g. I'm looking at the latter.

Big FF one: https://***URL removed***/products/samyang/lenses/samyang_35_1p4

Smaller Mirrorless one: https://***URL removed***/products/samyang/lenses/samyang_35_1p2_as_umc_cs

28 minutes ago, Laurier said:

If you go for M4/3 native lenses, get the voigtlander 0.95 lenses

Oh yeah, I heard on that one for it's nuts speed. How would you rate the sharpness wide open? Could be a good shout. Cheers

[Laurier]

The Voigtlanders are not the sharpest around but they are the most interesting IMO if you are shooting narrative/creative work or fashion/music videos.

If you mostly do corporate videos/coverage/docu I would rather go with panasonic/olympus  that are more sterile and pixel perfect.

[pablogrollan]

5 hours ago, ThomHaig said:

Hey, think there might be a bit of a misunderstanding - I'm looking at the Samyang's line of lenses that are exclusively for mirrorless cameras. For example, they do a 35mm f1.4 for DSLRs that weighs 660g, and a 35mm f1.2 for mirrorless that weighs 420g. I'm looking at the latter.

Big FF one: https://***URL removed***/products/samyang/lenses/samyang_35_1p4

Smaller Mirrorless one: https://***URL removed***/products/samyang/lenses/samyang_35_1p2_as_umc_cs

Ok, that mirrorless version is not really a cine version. I did buy a Samyang set back in the day in Nikon mount, since its pretty much the oldest and most adaptable mount like IronFilm said. And just as he said, the m4/3 mount versions are always a bit larger and heavier than the Nikon and Canon versions.

If you buy a lighter lens, well, you're definitely not buying the same glass! Sometimes that is a big compromise in quality, but it obviously depends on the lens -I have not tried that version-. The VDSLR II versions are sharp and generally optically very good in a so-so plastic chasis: that means they are light for their quality but have to be handled with care. In my opinion, probably the best bang for the buck when it comes to a fast and sharp lens set. For m4/3, the Veydra miniprimes are nicely built, optically OK and really smal.l

[AaronChicago]

Are you sure that you’ll be shooting MFT for a long time to come?

[ThomHaig]

2 hours ago, AaronChicago said:

Are you sure that you’ll be shooting MFT for a long time to come?

... Well, hopefully won't intend on changing system any time soon, having just bailed from Sony for Micro 4/3!

Damn though, guys. Just when I thought I knew where my money was going, and just needed to figure out if I was buying cine versions or not... A load more considerations to take into account now!

[IronFilm]

12 hours ago, ThomHaig said:

Hey, think there might be a bit of a misunderstanding - I'm looking at the Samyang's line of lenses that are exclusively for mirrorless cameras. For example, they do a 35mm f1.4 for DSLRs that weighs 660g, and a 35mm f1.2 for mirrorless that weighs 420g. I'm looking at the latter.

 

Right, but in that case they have a much more limited range, and you can't build a full set exclusively out of those. So any of those you can buy in DSLR mounts (which you'll need to round out your kit) then I recommend you get in Nikon F instead of MFT. 

(and even then.... I'm not a great fan of many of the exclusively mirrorless ones, I'd rather keep the flexibility of mounting)

3 hours ago, ThomHaig said:

... Well, hopefully won't intend on changing system any time soon, having just bailed from Sony for Micro 4/3!

 

You could go with Veydras instead, which would allow you to jump back and forth between Sony E mount or MFT in the future. 

[TwoScoops]

8 hours ago, Laurier said:

The Voigtlanders are not the sharpest around but they are the most interesting IMO if you are shooting narrative/creative work or fashion/music videos.

If you mostly do corporate videos/coverage/docu I would rather go with panasonic/olympus  that are more sterile and pixel perfect.

I think the Voigts are just as sharp at f2.8 to f4. I did some tests when I had them vs the Pana 12-35 and they looked about the same at 2.8, but still a lot nicer colors, more 3D pop etc.

Definitely agree below f2 and really soft at 0.95 tho.  Really great for portraits wide open. 

[webrunner5]

14 hours ago, ThomHaig said:

Hey, think there might be a bit of a misunderstanding - I'm looking at the Samyang's line of lenses that are exclusively for mirrorless cameras. For example, they do a 35mm f1.4 for DSLRs that weighs 660g, and a 35mm f1.2 for mirrorless that weighs 420g. I'm looking at the latter.

Big FF one: https://***URL removed***/products/samyang/lenses/samyang_35_1p4

Smaller Mirrorless one: https://***URL removed***/products/samyang/lenses/samyang_35_1p2_as_umc_cs

 

It says right on the link you provided "Wideangle prime lens | Canon EF, Nikon F (FX), Four Thirds, Pentax KAF, Sony/Minolta Alpha, Sony E, Samsung NX" It is not a m4/3 lens Only.

Second link says "Prime lens | Canon EF-M, Fujifilm X, Micro Four Thirds, Sony E"

This link says they pretty much weigh the same, use specs.. http://www.rokinon.com/lenses/digital-photo-lenses/35mm-t12

All they do is just change the back flange on most of them. I maybe wrong, but they don't make Any lenses that are FF, only APSC and they work on m4/3. Pretty much every lens works on m4/3, even B4 lenses if they have the 2x extender in them.

[IronFilm]

webrunner5, you're misreading what he said. 

The 35mm f1.2 doesn't come for any non-mirrorless mount at all. 

Although B&H kinda indicates it has been stopped being sold for MFT???
 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1281562-REG/rokinon_rk3512_e_35mm_f1_2_high_speed.html

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1281567-REG/rokinon_rk3512_mft_sil_35mm_f1_2_high_speed.html