Z Cam E2 will have ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY FPS in 4K??

[DBounce]

2 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

..and the difference is you are never going to deliver a camera (except maybe a pin hole one), so you are a criminal, while the good Chinese people of Z have sold thousands of cameras, and they are probably going to sell more, which does make them camera manufacturers, which is completely different than being a con man, promising cameras with the names of famous Hollywood directors and producers that will never deliver.

Obviously, I am joking about having a camera. I supposed everything needs to be explained? So many SJW running around, armed with a bag of insults. You don't even know me, yet, apparently, in your little world I'm a crook who stole your money? REALLY? Anyway, @Emanuelclaimed that the Z-Cam GS camera is released.... IT IS NOT. I see nothing regarding these GS cameras at any of the retailers... and no mentions of it on Z Cam's official website. So, if it is released, it was a piss poor launch.

As for trust in Z-Cam? I know little about them. I'm not saying they are bad... or good. I just don't know them, but frankly I think most would agree, it's more likely that they go belly up, than it is that they produce something that becomes the new cinema standard. That's just the nature of business. Mind you I would love to see them put out great cameras that are dependable... I would likely pick up a body or two. Z Cam seems interesting, and I continue to keep an eye on them to see how things develop. 
 

Not sure why gear should be such a touchy subject? Silly rabbit, you're not Kinson are you?

[Emanuel]

1 hour ago, DBounce said:

(...) @Emanuelclaimed that the Z-Cam GS camera is released.... IT IS NOT. I see nothing regarding these GS cameras at any of the retailers... and no mentions of it on Z Cam's official website. So, if it is released, it was a piss poor launch.

As for trust in Z-Cam? I know little about them. I'm not saying they are bad... or good. I just don't know them (...)

Did that 'Emanuel' fellow, did "he"...? Claim? Where... where exactly? ; )

From that link merely posted AND addressed to their pre-orders window usually taken during a pre-release?

What bothers you? Must you know them before they're entitled to be widely accepted? Is that so?

 

I will tell you quite frankly and straightforward:

The way you shoot so fast to barely understand the target you have...

...makes me now to add some reserves on your take over that Fuji X-T3 episode from yours...

Are you sure you bought that exact model...?

LOL (Sorry, I couldn't resist : ) I got the chance to joke around too ; ) No hard feelings dude : -)

[DBounce]

2 hours ago, Emanuel said:

Did that 'Emanuel' fellow, did "he"...? Claim? Where... where exactly? ; )

From that link merely posted AND addressed to their pre-orders window usually taken during a pre-release?

What bothers you? Must you know them before they're entitled to be widely accepted? Is that so?

 

I will tell you quite frankly and straightforward:

The way you shoot so fast to barely understand the target you have...

...makes me now to add some reserves on your take over that Fuji X-T3 episode from yours...

Are you sure you bought that exact model...?

LOL (Sorry, I couldn't resist : ) I got the chance to joke around too ; ) No hard feelings dude : -)

Indeed... lol. But honestly, I really don't have a dog in this fight with the GS version... the fact that they upped the price while shrinking the sensor size... to what? 1 inch?... Pretty much killed it for me.

Happy Holidays!

[Emanuel]

Agreed. As much as Panasonic with that $500 extra added to the GH5 series for their S version, it doesn't make any sense this premium adding those features they seem to be able to implement it from scratch... If so, why that?

Panasonic, as for instance, seems to be towards the 4,500 mark now for their new upper FF flagship.

Does it make any sense when seems this segment is losing market for their most affordable offers?

Thanks @DBounce to you and rest of the gang too! : -)

[Oliver Daniel]

Not worth arguing about, it’s only cameras! ?

I’ve followed them closely and they indeeed have a GS version on the brink of release - but 1-inch. 

They camera will very very soon have ProRes - some tester models have it and sone people have even hacked it. 

They are also looking at RAW. 

They are putting a lot of effort into the camera and it looks solid. The problem for Z Cam is that not enough people are taking them seriously. The marketing could do with a lot of work.

If you’ve got a bit of spare budget lying around, I’d take a punt. 

[Kisaha]

The features, form factor and price are right.

The main issue is the support, especially servicing of the cameras. It is very difficult for most pros to invest on something with no reviews, and limited knowledge of its durability and build quality.

If it was just a hobby- and I had plenty of money to burn, I may be interested in one of their cameras, to put it above my fire place.

For now, any of the other options, will do just fine. 

[scotchtape]

You'd think they would want the top youtube results to be something other than a touristy clip and someone kicking a soccer ball around

[webrunner5]

This is some really nice footage, but it is all in Slo Mo, and that tends to mask any problems a camera has. But there is some damn nice output here. I agree if you have extra money this could be worth a look like the PK4. But like the PK4, it needs to be built out, especially it Needs some kind of monitor, not just the Osmo Pocket style LCD it has. But better than nothing.

 

[Kisaha]

One can argue that P4K can be bought from anywhere in the world (at least order it for when available), BM has official distributors in almost every country in the world, it is almost half the price (including one of the top 3 editing and post processing suite in the world) and can be used right away (it includes the battery, a 5" screen, which is the greatest ever on a small camera), while the Z can NOT be used straight away. Also, the Prores and raw options of the P4K are a complete package.

Where exactly the Z is dominating over the Pocket4K, and makes us forget all the shortcomings?

[Emanuel]

12 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

But like the PK4, it needs to be built out, especially it Needs some kind of monitor (...)

 

Can you explain what this means, please?

This makes little sense to whom had played with this camera... Do you know something? This P4K is the EASIEST device to work with! Dare yourself to play with one... ; -)

Try to shoot SOC with any without lens, media, etc and you'll get the meaning of it LOL

P4K doesn't even have the need for any extra monitor at all because has the BEST one of the playground! ; )

I can only infer you don't believe me... I've posted all such mantra from yours is a complete myth. You still post it like an undoubtful truth, spreading misleading ideas about this camera.

I am not Grant Petty, if I would be him, I would simply be pissed off with you when they put their best to design such lovely piece of filmmaking.

Seems RED has served more as model for Z cam, even though, pretty unfair when this E2 ends to be more than a vague promise to comply. Blackmagic milestone is beyond to my book. 

This is what RED promised but could not be, especially after that Scarlet Pocket 3K for 3K fiasco. When RED ONE ended to be a brick, as matter of fact. Far away to be all way handy as we all were expecting or placing the best of our hopes and bucks for.

 

https://gizmodo.com/379530/red-scarlet-3k-hd-pocket-pro-camera-under-3000

 

What else is necessary to write about? What about to pick one instead?

 

(I like you Don, you know I like you but you are just asking for it... Buy one and have happy holidays! : -) 

[webrunner5]

1 hour ago, Emanuel said:

Can you explain what this means, please?

This makes little sense to whom had played with this camera... Do you know something? This P4K is the EASIEST device to work with! Dare yourself to play with one... ; -)

Try to shoot SOC with any without lens, media, etc and you'll get the meaning of it LOL

P4K doesn't even have the need for any extra monitor at all because has the BEST one of the playground! ; )

I can only infer you don't believe me... I've posted all such mantra from yours is a complete myth. You still post it like an undoubtful truth, spreading misleading ideas about this camera.

I am not Grant Petty, if I would be him, I would simply be pissed off with you when they put their best to design such lovely piece of filmmaking.

Seems RED has served more as model for Z cam, even though, pretty unfair when this E2 ends to be more than a vague promise to comply. Blackmagic milestone is beyond to my book. 

This is what RED promised but could not b

 

Well you can't see the monitor out in bright sun, and you can't see it up on a tripod,, so I would say for me the built in monitor would be as useless as tits on a boar hog. And you are going to need a battery pack. And unless you win the Lotto you are going to need an external SSD instead of 5 CFast cards. And a good microphone holder, on and on. So that means a cage. It needs built out just like the Z cam  E2 does. So you end up with a big lump of a rig that cost 2500 bucks. The Osmo Pocket is looking better every day! ?

Now if you want to run around naked in your house, with a naked PK4 handheld, with the curtains drawn, taking 20 second clips, of ehh, naked people well sure the damn thing works right out of the box LoL. ?

[DBounce]

25 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Well you can't see the monitor out in bright sun, and you can't see it up on a tripod,, so I would say for me the built in monitor would be as useless as tits on a boar hog. And you are going to need a battery pack. And unless you win the Lotto you are going to need an external SSD instead of 5 CFast cards. And a good microphone holder, on and on. So that means a cage. It needs built out just like the Z cam  E2 does. So you end up with a big lump of a rig that cost 2500 bucks. The Osmo Pocket is looking better every day! ?

Now if you want to run around naked in your house, with a naked PK4 handheld, with the curtains drawn, taking 20 second clips, of ehh, naked people well sure the damn thing works right out of the box LoL. ?

I agree... mostly. To work effectively it needs to be rigged up. That monitor on the P4k should at least tilt. I can forgive the lack of tilt on a very rugged camera like the 1DXMK2; but BM has no acceptable excuse for this omission. I largely try to avoid rigging cameras that I plan to travel with. I also hate pulling down rigged cameras so that I can travel light with them. This is why I usually opt to purchase a second or third body.

The compromises are glaring on the P4K. And the reason for the compromises are obviously to keep costs down. Personally, I would have preferred it hit the $2k price point with the current shortcomings addressed. I won’t be surprised when BM announces a new pro variant that address these issues. It’s sort of a no brainer.

The Z-Cam is closer to the mark. Not because it’s more complete, but because it’s not pretending to be the complete package. It’s expected one would rig to suit as the project requires. Nevertheless, it’s hard to recommend the Z given the lack of support state side and still unproven reliability. Imo, it’s a camera for beta testers at this point.

[Emanuel]

2 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Well you can't see the monitor out in bright sun, and you can't see it up on a tripod,, so I would say for me the built in monitor would be as useless as tits on a boar hog. And you are going to need a battery pack. And unless you win the Lotto you are going to need an external SSD instead of 5 CFast cards. And a good microphone holder on and on. It needs built out just like the Z cam  E2 does.

Now if you want to run around naked in your house, with a naked PK4, taking 20 second clips, well sure the damn thing work right out of the box LoL.

Funny usage, my friend, stop giving us ideas LOL So to that you have the Osmo Pocket, why bother for something else? xD

How do you know you can't see the LCD in the bright sun? You never touched one... Yet. Let's buy one to begin with before to pretend to be an opinion-maker for the subject matter ; -)

P4K is one amongst several identical ones under that perspective from yours.

1 hour ago, DBounce said:

That monitor on the P4k should at least tilt. I can forgive the lack of tilt on a very rugged camera like the 1DXMK2; but BM has no acceptable excuse for this omission. I largely try to avoid rigging cameras that I plan to travel with. I also hate pulling down rigged cameras so that I can travel light with them. This is why I usually opt to purchase a second or third body.

The compromises are glaring on the P4K.

Easily to speak without clue, isn't it? : D Buy one man to be able to review it : -P

[thebrothersthre3]

28 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Funny usage, my friend, stop giving us ideas LOL So to that you have the Osmo Pocket, why bother for something else? xD

How do you know you can't see the LCD in the bright sun? You never touched one... Yet. Let's buy one to begin with before to pretend to be an opinion-maker for the subject matter ; -)

P4K is one amongst several identical ones under that perspective from yours.

Easily to speak without clue, isn't it? : D Buy one man to be able to review it : -P

I have to agree with DBounce here. The monitor is nice and big but any monitor will have glare issues if you can't tilt it. Its not a big deal as monitors are fairly cheap these days, though of course it adds more bulk. Its good to have one for more accurate manual focusing though. 

[Emanuel]

Just now, thebrothersthre3 said:

I have to agree with DBounce here. The monitor is nice and big but any monitor will have glare issues if you can't tilt it. Its not a big deal as monitors are fairly cheap these days, though of course it adds more bulk. Its good to have one for more accurate manual focusing though. 

Have you ever shot with this camera?

Do you have in mind the body design and how useful that monitor actually is?

[Kisaha]

2 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Well you can't see the monitor out in bright sun, and you can't see it up on a tripod,, so I would say for me the built in monitor would be as useless as tits on a boar hog. And you are going to need a battery pack. And unless you win the Lotto you are going to need an external SSD instead of 5 CFast cards. And a good microphone holder, on and on. So that means a cage. It needs built out just like the Z cam  E2 does. So you end up with a big lump of a rig that cost 2500 bucks. The Osmo Pocket is looking better every day! ?

Now if you want to run around naked in your house, with a naked PK4 handheld, with the curtains drawn, taking 20 second clips, of ehh, naked people well sure the damn thing works right out of the box LoL. ?

Just to put some things in perspective.

P4K can be used for professionsl work, as it is, and I did.

A very demanding 1 day shooting with random Canon batteries (non original), SD card and whatever lenses we had (m43/EF metabones). No problem at all.

The monitor is the biggest one ever existed, not even some dedicated video cameras have such a good monitor. I doubt the C200 monitor is any better, and that is a 9000euros camera.

People are using terrible NON touch monitors on Sony cameras still, and most 3" cameras in the market are much worst.this is a huge leap ahead.

Personally, I bought a SmallHD Focus a year ago, but I had it on one of my other cameras that day. I missed a tilting mechanism at some points (very low angles when on a gimbal).

Again, the battery isn't worst than any Sony camera we have used in the past, and Sony were top sellers in mirrorless.

There is no camera with better in-camera sound than a dedicated microphone can provide, and this BM has a mini xlr, which no one else offers anyway. 

This camera offers RAW, but all flavors of prores also.

When you buy the Z, you can not use it out of the box, when you buy the Pocket, quite literally you can (if you count the SD card that includes, you do not even need any additional media ?). That is the truth.

[Oliver Daniel]

1 minute ago, Emanuel said:

Have you ever shot with this camera?

Do you have in mind the body design and how useful that monitor actually is?

I had one on pre-order, and although having never used it - I didn’t go through with the order. 

This is mostly to do with battery life. I know there are workarounds but I don’t see much point buying a camera with this form factor, just to throw another brick on it. 

Also I see the screen as a valid issue. If you know that you regularly need to tilt your screen - then the BM isn’t going to work as you’d want. 

The Z cam is a cool design as it allows you to “create your own camera”. A lot of people who like customisation will welcome that. 

The BM image is lovely and will be a massive hit for crash cams on big productions. As an indie tool it hits the right spot however as a workhorse, I think the GH5S is a better option. 

[Emanuel]

1 minute ago, Oliver Daniel said:

I think the GH5S is a better option. 

I have used both. It is not in any aspect. I'd even dare to say coupled to a gimbal, go figure, if AF hadn't been updated.

[Oliver Daniel]

11 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

I have used both. It is not in any aspect. I'd even dare to say coupled to a gimbal, go figure, if AF hadn't been updated.

Depends on what you shoot. Besides image quality, the GH5S has it’s advantages over the BM. 

The argument should be more to do with whether a camera is “best suited” to a particular shooter. Based on the everyday shooter, the Alexa 65 is the worst modern camera ever. 

 

[thebrothersthre3]

41 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Have you ever shot with this camera?

Do you have in mind the body design and how useful that monitor actually is?

I haven't shot with it, but I am aware of how bright the monitor is which is enough to tell me there would be issues in certain situations. I don't think its a dealbreaker.