newfoundmass Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 I wish they'd have put the camera into capable hands for the footage they've released instead of what they've put out. It really hasn't sold the camera and hasn't given us a very good idea of what this camera is capable of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 3 hours ago, newfoundmass said: I wish they'd have put the camera into capable hands for the footage they've released instead of what they've put out. It really hasn't sold the camera and hasn't given us a very good idea of what this camera is capable of. I agree... Somewhat. They haven't released any "wow" footage done by pros on a set, colored by pro. However, they have released a lot of sooc files that I think show off what the camera can do, you've just got to do some work on your own color grading. It doesn't look as good as say the p4k, but for a fraction of the data rate it's a fair trade in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 8 hours ago, nigelbb said: It costs £2K & is sold as a cinema camera & has 120fps@4K in 150Mbps h.264 but is a one trick pony with literally no other feature that isn't better served by the BMPCC4K. H.265, actually (big difference!). You should download some of the footage, it has very few artifacts. ProRes 4k 120 fps would make HUGE files. It's also got some interesting deep learning features that most of us won't use, but looks unique. You can also monitor and control the camera via an iPhone app attached via USB-C, so it may completely eliminate the need for an external monitor. I don't know about the P4K, but the E2 is supposed to use an all-analog gain structure, so dynamic range should by constant across the entire ISO range (though I assume that noise levels will increase). Which brings us to: 6 hours ago, AlexTrinder96 said: 16 stops of dynamic range? If only! It's actually about 13.5, which is in line with the other cameras' claims. The 16 claim comes from their WDR mode. I'm not sure how it works, but I think it's doing some fancy double frames or something (I'm sure they explained somewhere on Facebook). They say it can introduce artifacts with moving objects in WDR mode. I hope some third party like Cinema5D does an objective dynamic range test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, KnightsFan said: I hope some third party like Cinema5D does an objective dynamic range test. Would be even better if someone other than Cinema5D did it.... sanveer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, IronFilm said: Would be even better if someone other than Cinema5D did it.... Haha Maybe. What I like about them is they have done multiple cameras with the same methodology, so you can actually compare different brands. Do you know of any more reliable place that does the same? I'd love to see a variety of tests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanveer Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 31 minutes ago, KnightsFan said: I hope some third party like Cinema5D does an objective dynamic range test. Maybe you haven't been observing Cinema5D long enough (and carefully enough). They contradict almost Every Dynamic Range figure of their own. Meaning that one month it will be fine figure for the Arri Amira, and another month, it will be something else. This applies yo their figures for almost All Cameras. They will contract their own figures on the new Fuji too. Just give them enough time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 1 minute ago, sanveer said: Maybe you haven't been observing Cinema5D long enough (and carefully enough). They contradict almost Every Dynamic Range figure of their own. Meaning that one month it will be fine figure for the Arri Amira, and another month, it will be something else. This applies yo their figures for almost All Cameras. They will contract their own figures on the new Fuji too. Just give them enough time. Good to know! Who do you get your info from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanveer Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 This is just a quick upload of a few figures. If you check all their figures, the discrepancies are far more strange, and way more varied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, KnightsFan said: Good to know! Who do you get your info from? From Cinema5D themselves.... Although I think the reason they said recently is because they changed their test methodology? Anyway, they so often get things so very wrong, that I'd take anything they do with a very big grain of salt! sanveer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanveer Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 18 minutes ago, KnightsFan said: Haha Maybe. What I like about them is they have done multiple cameras with the same methodology, so you can actually compare different brands. Do you know of any more reliable place that does the same? I'd love to see a variety of tests. Curiously NOBODY does Dynamic Range tests consistently, if not absolutely accurately. I remember the recent one on Newsshooter.com some formet (looney) fuddy duddy from the BBC measured the dynamic range of the GH5s to be 14.7 stops, and that other profiles had way more dynamic range than VLog L. There were other strange things in his findings. Between this guy and Cinema5D, there is like a 4 STOP differnece in dynamic range of the GH5s. One or both the testing guys seem to be off, by an enormous margin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 @IronFilm and @sanveer I meant where do you get your dynamic range info from if not from cinema5d, who? 36 minutes ago, IronFilm said: Anyway, they so often get things so very wrong, that I'd take anything they do with a very big grain of salt! Naturally! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanveer Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 39 minutes ago, sanveer said: Curiously NOBODY does Dynamic Range tests consistently, if not absolutely accurately. Like I already mentioned above. There ARE NO authorities on dynamic range. Either They are experts of the Murphy's Laws variety or paid idiots. Or a mix of both. 6 minutes ago, KnightsFan said: @IronFilm and @sanveer I meant where do you get your dynamic range info from if not from cinema5d, who? Actually for Dybamic Range I trust a lot of random YouTubers and less prolific or (in)famous bloggers, and people who aren't shooting glorified corporate rubbish. Those guys are more accurate. Like Dave Dugdale among many other people. The list is huge. Even the formet CameraStoreTV guys, Chris and Jordon mentioned the improved dynamic range in video on the GH5s, and the fact that Panasonic executives told them that a little more dynamic range can be pulled off by using the HLG profile (since VLog L is limited to under 12 stops, more like 11 or 11.5 stops or under). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 @sanveer Does anyone do actual scientific tests though? I understand that C5D is suspect, but afaik they are the only ones who do actual lab tests on many different cameras under (supposedly) the same test scenarios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 The cool thing is they redo their tests and compare cameras everytime. So even though we are not entirely sure what they mean by 11.2 stops of dynamic range, we know its more then their listing of the GH5S or A7SII, and close to the FS5. So it gives you a general idea lol. The E2 looks really awesome, but I don't think their color science is going to be very good and I suck at grading. Fuji it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 10 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said: So even though we are not entirely sure what they mean by 11.2 stops of dynamic range, we know its more then their listing of the GH5S or A7SII, and close to the FS5. So it gives you a general idea lol. That's what I'm saying--and naturally there's a margin of error, and some outright mistakes will be made, in addition to a switch in methodology (I'm trying to look up when that happened. Perhaps it goes along with the different format of the chart?). But it's outright impossible to compare camera A to camera C by judging BOTH an A vs. B by one blogger, and then a B vs. C by a completely different person. 12 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said: The E2 looks really awesome, but I don't think their color science is going to be very good and I suck at grading. Fuji it is I agree the color so far doesn't look as good as Fuji or Blackmagic. I enjoy color grading, though. Tbh, until about a week ago, I discounted the E2 as a novelty because the graded test footage looked terrible. However, I downloaded some sooc zlog, played around in Resolve and was shocked at how easy it was to get a really good image. Fuji, Blackmagic, and ZCam are my top choices at the moment, but we'll see what other announcements get made. Fortunately, I won't be upgrading until December or January, so I've got plenty of time to see reviews and such! This is a great year to be almost-but-not-quite upgrading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, KnightsFan said: That's what I'm saying--and naturally there's a margin of error, and some outright mistakes will be made, in addition to a switch in methodology (I'm trying to look up when that happened. Perhaps it goes along with the different format of the chart?). But it's outright impossible to compare camera A to camera C by judging BOTH an A vs. B by one blogger, and then a B vs. C by a completely different person. I agree the color so far doesn't look as good as Fuji or Blackmagic. I enjoy color grading, though. Tbh, until about a week ago, I discounted the E2 as a novelty because the graded test footage looked terrible. However, I downloaded some sooc zlog, played around in Resolve and was shocked at how easy it was to get a really good image. Fuji, Blackmagic, and ZCam are my top choices at the moment, but we'll see what other announcements get made. Fortunately, I won't be upgrading until December or January, so I've got plenty of time to see reviews and such! This is a great year to be almost-but-not-quite upgrading. If I was smart I'd wait 6 months from now and see whats going on. To me the Fuji seems like everything I need though. Auto focus works, 10 bit color at high frame rates, good color science, and decent low light. There is always more but at some point you get what you need. I bought the GH5 but was always dissapointed with auto focus and color. KnightsFan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Looks like the website and specs for the E2 have been updated. http://www.z-cam.com/e2/ Max bitrates: Quote 230 Mbps for 4096 x 2160 230 Mbps for 3840 x 2160 230 Mbps for 3696 x 2772 200 Mbps for 1920 x 1080 Those are good bitrates for H.265! A tiny bit higher than the XT3's 200 Mbps. The test footage that I downloaded a long time ago held up very well to color grading, despite being just 175 Mbps for 4k/120. It looks like they've got a high resolution 4:3 mode (10.2MP, higher resolution than DCI 4K at 8.8MP) at up to 60fps. I'm curious to know the exact dimensions of all these modes. I'm not sure if it's a 1:1 readout, or whether there is any downsampling/cropping going on for either mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted October 15, 2018 Author Share Posted October 15, 2018 Looking forward to seeing more from the Z CAM E2: Emanuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 webrunner5, KnightsFan and mercer 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 They are also working on a global shutter sensor version as well: KnightsFan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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