Z Cam E2 will have ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY FPS in 4K??

[Patrick B.]

Was just looking into this cam and getting pretty pumped about it as a possible alternative to the BMPCC 4k, but then I saw the video @zerocool22 posted and I have to agree the first few seconds exhibit a strange noise pattern that seems partially static (versus the more random noise that you typically see).  Strange that not everybody sees it though.  I'm watching on my 2015 15" Macbook Pro in Safari.  

Took a screenshot of what I'm seeing from first few seconds of the video.  I don't believe it's compression artifacts from Vimeo.

I haven't seen any other examples or mentions of any FPN issues though so hoping it's just an isolated thing.

Actually, it might be 120 FPS footage.  I found a few accounts of some noise/lines in 120 FSP such as this one:

https://eks.tv/z-cam-e2-first-impressions/

Apparently overexposing can remedy it.  If that's the case that's fine although I agree with others about some other weird artifacts in the video aside from the noise.  Hopefully that is due to post processing or something else.

[drm]

1 hour ago, Patrick B. said:

Was just looking into this cam and getting pretty pumped about it as a possible alternative to the BMPCC 4k, but then I saw the video @zerocool22 posted and I have to agree the first few seconds exhibit a strange noise pattern that seems partially static (versus the more random noise that you typically see).  Strange that not everybody sees it though.  I'm watching on my 2015 15" Macbook Pro in Safari.  

Yep. I posted several images on page 24 of this thread highlighting a few of the things that I noticed in that particular video. I was surprised that you are cross shopping the E2 against the P4K, given the price and feature difference. If you get the E2, please let us know how it goes.The problem probably isn't widespread or more people would be commenting about the issue.

[Patrick B.]

42 minutes ago, drm said:

Yep. I posted several images on page 24 of this thread highlighting a few of the things that I noticed in that particular video. I was surprised that you are cross shopping the E2 against the P4K, given the price and feature difference. If you get the E2, please let us know how it goes.The problem probably isn't widespread or more people would be commenting about the issue.

Yeah, I did see your examples as well and they also bugged me.  But as you say, I'm not seeing complaints on image quality which is a good sign.  

True, there is a decent price difference between the BMPCC and E2.  I'm just looking for something in the sub $5000 range, compact form factor, that shoots 12-bit.  A used C200 is almost tempting, but I'd prefer something a bit smaller.  Plus, I'm not sure my 2015 MBP could handle a multi-cam project of CRM files and I'd rather not transcode.

Before looking at those two I had picked up used copies of the A7 III, Z6, and EOS R to compare with the intention of keeping one.  I had been leaning towards the EOS R and quickly realized how nice it was to have the 10-bit 4k out to the Ninja V vs the 8-bit I was used from the Sony Alpha's.  But getting a taste of 10-bit has me longing for 12-bit :).  The BRAW on the BMPCC is tempting as I think it'd play nice on my MBP.  Ideally I'd like to see how the ZRAW looks and performs on the E2 before I pick one up.  Hopefully that comes out soonish?

Also waiting on the Z6 ProRes RAW update to make my mind up about that camera.  Although I must say that having a small cinema camera that shoots raw internally and not having to use an external recorder sounds nice.  I really like the Ninja V, but I love to keep things minimal and simple also.

[tweak]

I don't see any noise issues what so ever with my shots. I mainly shoot Proress 422 48fps.
If you expose properly (as you must with most cameras, just don't overexpose) the colour, detail and DR from this camera punches way above it's price point.

[webrunner5]

21 minutes ago, Patrick B. said:

Yeah, I did see your examples as well and they also bugged me.  But as you say, I'm not seeing complaints on image quality which is a good sign.  

True, there is a decent price difference between the BMPCC and E2.  I'm just looking for something in the sub $5000 range, compact form factor, that shoots 12-bit.  A used C200 is almost tempting, but I'd prefer something a bit smaller.  Plus, I'm not sure my 2015 MBP could handle a multi-cam project of CRM files and I'd rather not transcode.

Before looking at those two I had picked up used copies of the A7 III, Z6, and EOS R to compare with the intention of keeping one.  I had been leaning towards the EOS R and quickly realized how nice it was to have the 10-bit 4k out to the Ninja V vs the 8-bit I was used from the Sony Alpha's.  But getting a taste of 10-bit has me longing for 12-bit :).  The BRAW on the BMPCC is tempting as I think it'd play nice on my MBP.  Ideally I'd like to see how the ZRAW looks and performs on the E2 before I pick one up.  Hopefully that comes out soonish?

Also waiting on the Z6 ProRes RAW update to make my mind up about that camera.  Although I must say that having a small cinema camera that shoots raw internally and not having to use an external recorder sounds nice.  I really like the Ninja V, but I love to keep things minimal and simple also.

You can buy an EVA1 cheaper now than a C200. Not sure I would go the Canon route unless you have other cameras of theirs.

[Patrick B.]

@webrunner5 oh, good point!  I realllllly like the Varicam look from footage I've seen.  For that reason the S1 seems tempting also.  I'm really curious if the S1H ends up getting up getting any kind of raw support.  I do have a few EF lenses, but not heavily invested in any one system.

@tweak Thanks for the report.  Very curious to see what the raw update does.  The S6 test footage also looks amazing.  I may have to wait until that comes out to compare as well.

Having said that, I can see raw for me being of those things like virtual reality... it sounds really cool, but then the novelty wears off 

[drm]

18 minutes ago, Patrick B. said:

Yeah, I did see your examples as well and they also bugged me.  But as you say, I'm not seeing complaints on image quality which is a good sign.  

True, there is a decent price difference between the BMPCC and E2.  I'm just looking for something in the sub $5000 range, compact form factor, that shoots 12-bit.  A used C200 is almost tempting, but I'd prefer something a bit smaller.  Plus, I'm not sure my 2015 MBP could handle a multi-cam project of CRM files and I'd rather not transcode.

Before looking at those two I had picked up used copies of the A7 III, Z6, and EOS R to compare with the intention of keeping one.  I had been leaning towards the EOS R and quickly realized how nice it was to have the 10-bit 4k out to the Ninja V vs the 8-bit I was used from the Sony Alpha's.  But getting a taste of 10-bit has me longing for 12-bit :).  The BRAW on the BMPCC is tempting as I think it'd play nice on my MBP.  Ideally I'd like to see how the ZRAW looks and performs on the E2 before I pick one up.  Hopefully that comes out soonish?

Also waiting on the Z6 ProRes RAW update to make my mind up about that camera.  Although I must say that having a small cinema camera that shoots raw internally and not having to use an external recorder sounds nice.  I really like the Ninja V, but I love to keep things minimal and simple also.

Have you considered the S1? You don't get RAW, but the image quality is supposedly stellar and the price is in budget, plus you get full frame (and something to use for photos ;).

I agree about avoiding transcoding and shooting in RAW. I own 3 P4Ks, GH5, & GH5s and have shot many projects on them. I have shifted everything but run & gun projects to the P4Ks. Shooting in RAW makes it where I don't want to go back to the Panasonics & transcoding. The BRAW footage is very easy to edit in Resolve on Mac. It seems basically the same as editing ProRes. I hadn't considered BM much before the P4Ks, but we are now seriously considering the Ursa G2s and/or Panasonic S1s as our next cameras (for different reasons).

The C200 is certainly a fine machine and is dropping some in price.

[tweak]

9 minutes ago, Patrick B. said:

 

@tweak Thanks for the report.  Very curious to see what the raw update does.  The S6 test footage also looks amazing.  I may have to wait until that comes out to compare as well.

Having said that, I can see raw for me being of those things like virtual reality... it sounds really cool, but then the novelty wears off 

I'm someone who mostly shot MLRaw before this camera as my preferred image. Now with the Zcam E2 I'm almost questioning whether Raw will really add much more to the image, it's already so good. Obviously I will try it out, but if it's not adding much I'll probably just stick with prores for ease of use. 

The S6 does look great, I'm really trying to decide whether an upgrade to it is worth it from the E2, as I also use anamorphic lenses and the E2 with  Prores 422 48fps 4K (open gate) is a great match.

[Patrick B.]

@drm yeah, ha I just updated my post because I forgot to mention that.  I love the v-log footage I've seen and what Andrew posted.  I happen to think the Varicam look is, dare I say, as good as Alexa so I feel like the S1 has some of that mojo.  

That's interesting about your experience switching to BRAW.  That's kind of the feeling I was thinking.. it might be as easy as working with ProRes but with the benefits of raw.  My MBP can't handle 4k compressed footage too well and I hate transcoding.  (So I'd probably end up shooting the S1 to my Ninja V to avoid having to transcode or use its native compressed codec).

Yeah, the C200 price drop had me rethinking it.  Even the Varicam LT drop had me dreaming.. but that's way more camera than I need or could handle as a lone shooter.

@tweak ML Raw has tempted me to almost buy an older Canon camera to try it, but I never did and the workflow seemed more cumbersome than I'd prefer.  In the examples I've seen it's crazy how good even the rec709 off the E2 looked.  Very impressive.  And I love that it shoots ProRes already.  Hmmmm, got a lot to think about to make a decision.  

[IronFilm]

5 hours ago, Patrick B. said:

@webrunner5 oh, good point!  I realllllly like the Varicam look from footage I've seen.  For that reason the S1 seems tempting also.  I'm really curious if the S1H ends up getting up getting any kind of raw support.  I do have a few EF lenses, but not heavily invested in any one system.

 

Is crazy but you can find a Panasonic EVA1 now for around sub US$4K ish on eBay

(and the Panasonic Varicam LT sells for sub $10K new now)

[Shell64]

And the canon 1dc is sub 3k

and the c100 is $800

and 2.5k RAW video with the eos m is $120

These are crazy times to get into filmmaking. There really are no excuses other than laziness. Back in the day we dreamed to have what these cameras offered for $4000. Now we can get these features for $120. WHAT DA HECK!?

[IronFilm]

11 minutes ago, Shell64 said:

and the c100 is $800

Or a Sony PMW-F3 for similar or less! :-o 


 

 

11 minutes ago, Shell64 said:

These are crazy times to get into filmmaking. There really are no excuses other than laziness. Back in the day we dreamed to have what these cameras offered for $4000. Now we can get these features for $120. WHAT DA HECK!?

I 100% agree, we're living in a crazy time!
 

[Shell64]

A gh1 is $90

A phone with 4K 100mbps log is $0

[drm]

15 hours ago, Shell64 said:

A gh1 is $90

A phone with 4K 100mbps log is $0

LOL...Filmic Pro log profile on an iPhone can take some *really* nice footage if you try. You can't get depth of field, but with some NDs you can get some great footage. 

[newfoundmass]

Just saw Z CAM E2C is now on sale and I'm kinda confused: who is that camera for? Am I missing something from the specs? 

[Shell64]

The e2c is a cheap version of the e2. It shoots 10 bit 4K and will eventually shoot raw for less than $1000. I kinda want one lol

[Patrick B.]

Oh wow. So all you lose is super HFR and CFAST?

Looks like less DR too. Hmmm

[newfoundmass]

Ah, I didn't see anything about raw shooting, just pro res, but that would make sense since, as it is, there's not much of a market for it given the Pocket 4K. Z CAM really needs to get better with relaying that info. Promised features they discuss on the Facebook page (where I guess that info comes from) should be on their other platforms. 

I think I'd still probably go with the Pocket 4K for the couple hundred more. 

[KnightsFan]

The E2C has a completely different sensor. It has less DR, worse RS, more noise, and lacks higher frame rates. No mention of ProRes on the website, so if it isn't available yet it's pending Apple's approval. And it uses Canon batteries instead of Sony ones.

[Cinegain]

Basically an update to the Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera (a sensor box with a mount needing Canon LP-E6 batteries) that they themselves never brought.

Seen only one video floating around...