tweak Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Some people on this forum are a laugh ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 I don't see any inexplicable animosity against them. Only some skepticism from a few more centered in the other contenders. Those they mostly trust and want to feel confident with. It's all about that instead. I see these same usual suspects to salute the efforts of everyone, though. Also because the more players the better features and more affordable the gear is. Customers double their revenue. As well, those participants who understand better their own industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 Over on PV Forums then @eatstoomuchjam reports that with a little hacking he can already record ProRes HQ 4K on his Z Cam E2. Just needs a flag to be enabled in the existing firmware. So ProRes is already 100% ready to go on the E2, but Z Cam is waiting before enabling it.... probably just the final rubber stamping approval from Apple. sanveer, KnightsFan and webrunner5 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBounce Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 A camera destined to be obsolete. There is already two global shutter versions in the works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanveer Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 8 hours ago, DBounce said: A camera destined to be obsolete. There is already two global shutter versions in the works. Why? IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBounce Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 6 hours ago, sanveer said: Why? Can’t imagine there will be many takers on the non-global shutter variant... as the current version already seems to have limited interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 14 minutes ago, DBounce said: Can’t imagine there will be many takers on the non-global shutter variant... as the current version already seems to have limited interest. The GS variant will probably have even fewer takers. It has a 1" sensor, lower frame rates, and less dynamic range. Basically, the RS version will be better in every way except that one feature, so I doubt it will influence sales of the RS version much. AlexTrinder96 and sanveer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanveer Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 23 minutes ago, DBounce said: Can’t imagine there will be many takers on the non-global shutter variant... as the current version already seems to have limited interest. The ProRes and RAW started out too slowly and the codec (especially log and other features) was also slow. That along with the pricing slowed down stuff. They should have just thrown in a cheap 5inch monitor along with the thing. Once ProRes and RAW come along (along with a small price correction), interest should go up in the Z2. GS cameras always have much lower dynamic range. Plus the Sony Sensor in this anyways doesn't have much rolling shutter anyway, so global shuttwr won't really bring much of an advantage. Unless it's a new sensor with much larger pixels and higher dynamic range (which I frankly doubt). We should know soon enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Is rolling shutter really all that bad on M43? I've been fine with it on my GH3, G85 and GH5. Is a global shutter camera really even necessary at this level of hobbyist and indie filmmaking/videography? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
androidlad Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 The global shutter variants come at the expense of significant dynamic range & sensitivity loss. Current off-the-shelf global shutter sensors, even from Sony, are not designed for consumer cameras. Of course the one used in F55 is not for sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanveer Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 There are some interesting Sony Global Shutter sensors out there, but I couldn't find one in a 1inch sensor Size. I found this instead. 2 sensors that are about 1inch each with larger pixels, though I doubt the dynamic range and low light (like @androidlad mentioned above) will be good. These sensors were announced this year itself. https://m.onsemi.com/news/article?id=4043 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
androidlad Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 10 minutes ago, sanveer said: There are some interesting Sony Global Shutter sensors out there, but I couldn't find one in a 1inch sensor Size. I found this instead. 2 sensors that are about 1inch each with larger pixels, though I doubt the dynamic range and low light (like @androidlad mentioned above) will be good. These sensors were announced this year itself. https://m.onsemi.com/news/article?id=4043 https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products_en/IS/sensor0/industry/products/industry.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanveer Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, androidlad said: https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products_en/IS/sensor0/industry/products/industry.html Holy F@ck !!! Sony sensors are a camera designers wet dream. I wish I was working with a start-up that was in the imaging space. The sheer number of camera sensor choices is Insane. At every size and imaginable spec. androidlad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted November 22, 2018 Author Share Posted November 22, 2018 15 hours ago, KnightsFan said: The GS variant will probably have even fewer takers. It has a 1" sensor, lower frame rates, and less dynamic range. Basically, the RS version will be better in every way except that one feature, so I doubt it will influence sales of the RS version much. I'm disappointed that the very vocal global shutter religious fanatics online have mislead Z Cam to waste their R&D resources on such a poor return for them. 15 hours ago, newfoundmass said: Is rolling shutter really all that bad on M43? No 15 hours ago, newfoundmass said: I've been fine with it on my GH3, G85 and GH5. Yes 15 hours ago, newfoundmass said: Is a global shutter camera really even necessary at this level of hobbyist and indie filmmaking/videography? No. You could even ask the question: Is a global shutter camera really even necessary for 99% of professional filmmaking/videography? Answer: No. KnightsFan and newfoundmass 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBounce Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 19 hours ago, sanveer said: There are some interesting Sony Global Shutter sensors out there, but I couldn't find one in a 1inch sensor Size. I found this instead. 2 sensors that are about 1inch each with larger pixels, though I doubt the dynamic range and low light (like @androidlad mentioned above) will be good. These sensors were announced this year itself. https://m.onsemi.com/news/article?id=4043 1" sensor? Are you sure about this? At $2499 for the 4k 30p model and $2999 for the 4k 60p model it seems like no one would buy it if true. @IronFilm my interest is more to do with the motion cadence than anything else. I will agree it's subtle... maybe somewhat subjective... but to my eyes there is a discernible difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 5 hours ago, IronFilm said: I'm disappointed that the very vocal global shutter religious fanatics online have mislead Z Cam to waste their R&D resources on such a poor return for them. I agree. Im a vocal global shutter supporter, but z cam is a small company and might be better off making one really good camera. And as much as i want global shutter, sensor tech isnt there yet without major compromises. @DBounce yeah it is 1". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanveer Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 2 hours ago, DBounce said: 1" sensor? Are you sure about this? At $2499 for the 4k 30p model and $2999 for the 4k 60p model it seems like no one would buy it if true. I didn't say it will have a 1inch sensor, someone else did. I would have assumed that it would, instead, use the Sony APS-C Global shutter sensor, since it may have a lot more going for it (better dynamic range and low light). 22 hours ago, KnightsFan said: The GS variant will probably have even fewer takers. It has a 1" sensor, lower frame rates, and less dynamic range. Basically, the RS version will be better in every way except that one feature, so I doubt it will influence sales of the RS version much. @KnightsFan mentioned 1inch sensor. Most cinema cameras have CMOS sensors (some with a few global sensor circuitry modifications), and yet produce great motion cadence. I am guessing as long as they aren't large sensors with slow frame rates, motion cadence (and rolling shutter) shouldn't be an issue. I am guessing it also has Something to do with bitrates and codecs, since action cameras and cameras that have proportionately lower bitrates in comparison with high movement have issued with bad looking images (motion cadence). Issues with micro blocking. 1 hour ago, KnightsFan said: I agree. Im a vocal global shutter supporter, but z cam is a small company and might be better off making one really good camera. And as much as i want global shutter, sensor tech isnt there yet without major compromises. @DBounce yeah it is 1". I didn't notice you replied. Is the 1inch sensor Size mentioned in their Facebook page. Where was it mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 @sanveer yes, its been talked about a few times on the facebook group. It should do 4k60 at 10 bit with a native iso of 250. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanveer Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 10 hours ago, KnightsFan said: @sanveer yes, its been talked about a few times on the facebook group. It should do 4k60 at 10 bit with a native iso of 250. Ok interesting. Did they also mentions anything regarding the other specs on the camera. Maybe we could make an intelligent guess about who the manufacturer may be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBounce Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 18 hours ago, KnightsFan said: @sanveer yes, its been talked about a few times on the facebook group. It should do 4k60 at 10 bit with a native iso of 250. Well I cannot speak to the Facebook group as I do not “Facebook”. But I did speak with Kinson, over at Z-Cam and he specifically mentioned two new GS models... not one. A cheaper 30p model at $2499, and another 60p model at $2999.99. He made no mention of a 1” sensor. I assumed it would be exactly the same as the current model in all other aspects. I think m43 is a tough sell at those prices... GS or not. With a 1” sensor they would be ice skating up hill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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