Z Cam E2 will have ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY FPS in 4K??

[KnightsFan]

9 hours ago, sanveer said:

Ok interesting. Did they also mentions anything regarding the other specs on the camera. Maybe we could make an intelligent guess about who the manufacturer may be. 

It is a sony sensor.

@DBounce thats correct, two models, one for 30p and one for 60p.

[tweak]

5 hours ago, DBounce said:

Well I cannot speak to the Facebook group as I do not “Facebook”. But I did speak with Kinson, over at Z-Cam and he specifically mentioned two new GS models... not one. A cheaper 30p model at $2499, and another 60p model at $2999.99. He made no mention of a 1” sensor. I assumed it would be exactly the same as the current model in all other aspects. 

I think m43 is a tough sell at those prices... GS or not. With a 1” sensor they would be ice skating up hill.

They did mention it having a 1inch sensor quite some times.

[DBounce]

4 minutes ago, tweak said:

They did mention it having a 1inch sensor quite some times.

Yeah, they confirmed this to me today. Can’t say I’m too interested with such a small sensor. I guess it must have been all that was available to them. But had they had gone the opposite direction and installed a S35 sensor I suspect many would be take notice of this camera.

[tweak]

28 minutes ago, DBounce said:

Yeah, they confirmed this to me today. Can’t say I’m too interested with such a small sensor. I guess it must have been all that was available to them. But had they had gone the opposite direction and installed a S35 sensor I suspect many would be take notice of this camera.

You're probably right. I'm also not interested in anything under 2x crop.

[thebrothersthre3]

After this came out I kind of lost interest. However new updates in firmware are getting me interested again. 

The Z cam now supports Prores recording. The ability to shoot in H265 and 10bit H264 is awesome too.

They also have unique settings not found in cameras like the GH5 to completely get rid of artificial sharpening. 

However the newest and most interesting firmware update is the new log profile, Zlog2. They are claiming it does 15 stops of dyanmic range in comparison with the previous, 13.5 stops in Zlog. They have uploaded test shots on their facebook page. 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/zcame2/

This isn't an HDR multiple exposure thing either, which they also have in the camera WDR(which has ghosting with enough movement). Another thing is HD 240 fps. 

They have a pretty unique auto focus system as well, which they are still working on. If they can get that to be reliable I'll definitely be buying it. 15 stops is a big seller for me if its true. 

[androidlad]

25 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

After this came out I kind of lost interest. However new updates in firmware are getting me interested again. 

The Z cam now supports Prores recording. The ability to shoot in H265 and 10bit H264 is awesome too.

They also have unique settings not found in cameras like the GH5 to completely get rid of artificial sharpening. 

However the newest and most interesting firmware update is the new log profile, Zlog2. They are claiming it does 15 stops of dyanmic range in comparison with the previous, 13.5 stops in Zlog. They have uploaded test shots on their facebook page. 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/zcame2/

This isn't an HDR multiple exposure thing either, which they also have in the camera WDR(which has ghosting with enough movement). Another thing is HD 240 fps. 

They have a pretty unique auto focus system as well, which they are still working on. If they can get that to be reliable I'll definitely be buying it. 15 stops is a big seller for me if its true. 

The DR expansion is achieved by using "Quad Bayer HDR" mode in the IMX294CJK sensor, unfortunately only goes up to 4K 30p.

[thebrothersthre3]

33 minutes ago, androidlad said:

The DR expansion is achieved by using "Quad Bayer HDR" mode in the IMX294CJK sensor, unfortunately only goes up to 4K 30p.

Ah still impressive. Thanks for the explanation, it was really puzzling me lol. 

[DBounce]

1 hour ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

After this came out I kind of lost interest. However new updates in firmware are getting me interested again. 

The Z cam now supports Prores recording. The ability to shoot in H265 and 10bit H264 is awesome too.

They also have unique settings not found in cameras like the GH5 to completely get rid of artificial sharpening. 

However the newest and most interesting firmware update is the new log profile, Zlog2. They are claiming it does 15 stops of dyanmic range in comparison with the previous, 13.5 stops in Zlog. They have uploaded test shots on their facebook page. 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/zcame2/

This isn't an HDR multiple exposure thing either, which they also have in the camera WDR(which has ghosting with enough movement). Another thing is HD 240 fps. 

They have a pretty unique auto focus system as well, which they are still working on. If they can get that to be reliable I'll definitely be buying it. 15 stops is a big seller for me if its true. 

Yes, I have also been watching the development of this camera. The E1 was a bit of a mess, and the earlier samples from the E2 where very poorly done. I’m sure that put off many. Still, these new developments are indeed interesting. Reviews of this camera are few and far between, so it’s hard to know what it’s really like to live with. But the specs seem impressive. More so than the P4K, as Prores gives 90% of the flexibility of raw and is easier to deal with in post. Also I favor dynamic range over high bit depth if I have to choose.

I recently had a play with some of the downloadable sample WDR footage and was shocked at its latitude. But I’m having some issues with just accepting everything that the manufacturer states. How do we know the footage is from the Z-Cam E2? There are few independent sources to confirm what is claimed. 

I also noticed that the E2 supports anamorphic modes... interesting, as the Atlas lenses are 2x squeeze. They should, in theory play nice with the E2. The size is also nice. It should work well on a motion controlled system.

I’ll wait until the smoke clears and the dust settles on this one. But I have to admit, if it pans out as true, it could be a good option. Assuming it’s reliable, and easy enough to work with.

[KnightsFan]

1 hour ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

The Z cam now supports Prores recording.

Not officially. They are still waiting for licensing, but a few users have found a way to turn on ProRes via a sort of hack.

14 minutes ago, DBounce said:

How do we know the footage is from the Z-Cam E2? There are few independent sources to confirm what is claimed. 

Those independent sources do confirm the camera's abilities, though. It seems pretty unlikely to me that they are using another camera for their test footage.

15 minutes ago, DBounce said:

More so than the P4K, as Prores gives 90% of the flexibility of raw and is easier to deal with in post. Also I favor dynamic range over high bit depth if I have to choose.

They are planning on implementing Raw in the E2 alongside ProRes and H.265. Granted, the P4K will have BRaw, which I predict will be better than Z Cam's Raw format.

[DBounce]

43 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

Not officially. They are still waiting for licensing, but a few users have found a way to turn on ProRes via a sort of hack.

Those independent sources do confirm the camera's abilities, though. It seems pretty unlikely to me that they are using another camera for their test footage.

They are planning on implementing Raw in the E2 alongside ProRes and H.265. Granted, the P4K will have BRaw, which I predict will be better than Z Cam's Raw format.

I thought they canned the idea of having Raw? 

Regarding BRaw, I never heard it confirmed for the P4K. But even if it is,  the inferior DR, cropped hfr, questionable build quality, much larger size and terrible battery life really detract from the BM option for me. 

I think BM should have adopted the same format as the Micro... but made it modular. That way they wouldn't have to cut corners... and buyers wouldn't have to look to third parties for workarounds.

Here's to hoping Z Cam gets this camera right. 

[thebrothersthre3]

Yeah my biggest draw to the Black Magic Pocket 4k was prores and higher dynamic range then pretty much any camera of its type on the market.

However if the Z cam beats it in dynamic range (true 15 stops) that would easily sway my decision. I like Black Magic's color a lot but prores 422 gives you enough to correct anything in post for the most part. 120 fps 4k is also a really nice feature, even though its pretty noisy.

[DBounce]

18 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

 120 fps 4k is also a really nice feature, even though its pretty noisy.

Is it noisy? You do need more light for higher frame rates.  But with ample lighting how is it? Do you have a link?

[tweak]

They are still implementing a Raw codec, just not much info of how that will be yet, but I think they will release something soon.

If it gets 15 stops with a Raw codec I will probably bite the bullet and get one. 4K 24p anamorphic sounds like a perfect match or upgrade from the GH5 for me. I would probably keep a GH5 still however just for the IBIS.

[webrunner5]

They are claiming 16 stops of DR in WDR mode! That is more than an Arri Alexa!  I find a lot of what they claim hard to believe.

http://www.z-cam.com/e2/

[AlexTrinder96]

I do like what they're doing and they seem to update the  firmware very often which is a good sign... 15 'usable' stops would be impressive, but I have my doubts.

[androidlad]

54 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Yeah my biggest draw to the Black Magic Pocket 4k was prores and higher dynamic range then pretty much any camera of its type on the market.

However if the Z cam beats it in dynamic range (true 15 stops) that would easily sway my decision. I like Black Magic's color a lot but prores 422 gives you enough to correct anything in post for the most part. 120 fps 4k is also a really nice feature, even though its pretty noisy.

 

34 minutes ago, DBounce said:

Is it noisy? You do need more light for higher frame rates.  But with ample lighting how is it? Do you have a link?

4K 120fps readout mode uses 10bit ADC for speed, this is very low precision with around 2EV higher noise floor compared to normal readout modes that use 12bit ADC.

[AlexTrinder96]

WDR test, looks decent!

 

 

[KnightsFan]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

They are claiming 16 stops of DR in WDR mode! That is more than an Arri Alexa!  I find a lot of what they claim hard to believe.

http://www.z-cam.com/e2/

I haven't seen any third party tests, but my guess is that they are exaggerating by 2 stops, like most manufacturers. Or, to look at it another way, Arri under-exaggerates by 2 stops. It's kind of like Canon claiming 15 for the C300, although Canon's 15 is measurably less than Arri's 14.

Also a lot of the footage I've seen of the WDR mode has bad motion artifacts, so it's probably unusable except for really static shots.

[FreshGiant]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

They are claiming 16 stops of DR in WDR mode! That is more than an Arri Alexa!  I find a lot of what they claim hard to believe.

http://www.z-cam.com/e2/

I don't completely understand, but the engineers described WDR is an interpolation of 2 highlight video streams. This is why you get ghosting in the image with a 180 degree shutter and fast movement. But for static stuff like an interview in front of a window, it could be a really good solution.

The new log format they said can get 15 stops of DR (up to 30fps) without WDR mode (so no ghosting). Official side by side testing next week with other cameras. I am very interested in that, far more than RAW. They also developed a setting to turn off digital sharpening. I downloaded a sample to grade and it looked really nice. ProRes HQ, 10bit 422, 15 stops DR, no digital sharpening, no crop 4k 120fps h265. NPF batteries. There is a lot to like for $2k.

I am very close to buying one. But these are the things that make me pause.

1. They are a small company with no way to service cameras. If it breaks you have to ship to Hong Kong. So it probably shouldn't be your A camera.

2. M43 is probably dying, and I really want a FF field of view. With a SB .64 that should get you to 1.2X. Its close. It's probably good enough. 50mm becomes a 60mm. Not a deal breaker, but you know FF 10 bit 422 internal cameras are coming out very soon. But they will be mirrorless cameras that need to be rigged and not a camera built to shoot video.

3. No good audio solutions. They have that lemo to XLR, but no good way to control levels manually. Same problem with the P4k. The GH5 XLR-1 unit is a perfect little solution, I don't know why other little cameras didn't develop their own or create an interface that will let you use that or Sony's XLR unit.

[webrunner5]

Oh I can say it is an interesting camera. And I like the form factor. And I like the look of the above Video. ProRes is a nice addition. But on paper right now it is 2x the price of the PK4. Hard sell for me right now.