NX1 Extended Dynamic Range? New Settings.

[Happy Daze]

I have lately been experimenting with video capture settings on the NX1 and I have been exploring a method of increasing dynamic range which I don't think has yet been touched upon.

It's really no big deal and I am not making any great claims but it may be of interest to some so I produced a quick video How-To.

Take is as fun, I have done very little real-world testing and it may be of little use, but over to you.

 

[Matthew Hartman]

6 hours ago, Happy Daze said:

I have lately been experimenting with video capture settings on the NX1 and I have been exploring a method of increasing dynamic range which I don't think has yet been touched upon.

It's really no big deal and I am not making any great claims but it may be of interest to some so I produced a quick video How-To.

Take is as fun, I have done very little real-world testing and it may be of little use, but over to you.

 

Very interesting. Have you experimented with master black level and Dynamic Range/Smart Range+ enabled in conjunction?

[Juxx989]

Was messing around with your exposure comp idea then I realized I never use auto exposure is that a key part of it? My settings are quite grainey  

Out of Cam

 

Grade attempt

https://drive.google.com/open?id=14z5hLzvJppM_cA5bXuyCSk_C306PlRff

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WCEAv9_PeFBXZhuUCi-gOmRUZUhUMKI9

 

[Happy Daze]

I have just had a chance to test outside. It's very overcast so contrast between ground and sky is wide. What I have noticed is that the highlights are still clipping but at a lower level than with standard exposure which seems to fail the process.

BUT.... Try turning the colour controls in the profile to a POSITIVE figure +1.20/1.30 (or whatever) and then use negative exposure compensation to protect the highlights. This give a smoother curve than both the first method and standard exposure. The shadows appear brighter whilst the highlights don't appear to burn and the scopes look smooth.

There might be a sweet spot somewhere, so I am going to carry on playing for a while.

[Happy Daze]

Method 2 is producing some surprising results indoors. Just for fun turn the color in the profile to full 1.99 on all 3 colours. Now use a negative exposure comp to bring the scene to the same level as would be the standard exposure profile. The ISO for capture is much lower and the noise is much less using the custom method compared to standard exposure.

Anyone else?

[Happy Daze]

OK, so I strongly believe that you can gain an extra whole stop in low light by using method 2. 

Profile settings: color R G B +1.99, contrast -5, Saturation -1, Sharpness -10 (the contrast, saturation & sharpness are to taste but I find the contrast at -5 produces flatter more realistic results).

Once you set the profile you can achieve a similar exposure to standard by using negative -1 exposure compensation. Note how the ISO drops as a result of the negative exposure compensation yet when scenes from standard and this custom profile are compared there do not appear to be any disadvantages just lower noise!

Obviously you will need to adjust exposure compensation for different scenes to protect the whites as much as you probably would in standard exposure but you will  need around an extra stop of negative exposure using this profile..

Next to test externally.

[Happy Daze]

Testing outside using the new profile, it's very overcast here at the moment, I found my self switching between negative 1.0 and 1.3, but compared to the same scene with Picture Wizard off there is more dynamic range. Also there is at least 1 stop more to be gained which could prove invaluable in failing light.

I hope that you test this and share your results. I have not tried adjusting any other settings which I have left at standard. This may also work for the gamma DR profile as well, more tests are needed.

I will be using this profile for the next few weeks just to see if it is reliable.

[IKSLIM]

We already knew from the Raw photo conversion: Nx1 sensor by itself has extraordinary dynamic range, but it is hidden in dark area. I compare nx1 raw file conversion to Canon, Sony, Nikon, Olympus, Panas  - NX1 sensor needs exclusive workflow during conversion, because it has tremendous amount of data hidden in dark area…

Unfortunately, for video, we do not have such a chance to extract details from dark areas, but we have some tools to optimise shot for what we have.. I only play with 16-235 and BlackLevel: +3 +5. I prefer to keep standard picture profile in settings. Otherwise we are tending to loose beautiful colours created for us by Samsung ingeneers. And i do really love Samsung colours - simply why i moved to the system (hate millions of colour based problems i had in my live with ALL mentioned brands)… But now I’m pretty happy…  

One more, and simply the BEST solution: to use adequate lightning and keep ISO under 1600. For a night shots i have Samyang 24mm/1.4 + NXL, and I’m Really satisfied with: resolution and colours…

NX1 DRange.mp4

[ReinisK]

Interesting results. I watched the video on my phone, so could be wrong, but there are a few things I want to say.

You defined highlight clipping only by looking at the scopes, but I would say, that if you compare the first and the last test, it's visible, that the hanging leaves on the tree have less detail in the last shot, than in the first one.

I'm saying, that maybe even if the scopes are not at 100%, the highlights are still blown. For a better test, I would suggest looking at highlights and shadows together, and look closely at the detail in them (basicaly, analyze highlights the same as you did with the shadows).

[Matthew Hartman]

31 minutes ago, ReinisK said:

Interesting results. I watched the video on my phone, so could be wrong, but there are a few things I want to say.

You defined highlight clipping only by looking at the scopes, but I would say, that if you compare the first and the last test, it's visible, that the hanging leaves on the tree have less detail in the last shot, than in the first one.

I'm saying, that maybe even if the scopes are not at 100%, the highlights are still blown. For a better test, I would suggest looking at highlights and shadows together, and look closely at the detail in them (basicaly, analyze highlights the same as you did with the shadows).

There's a lot of merit in your point here. I think we all get too caught up in the scopes sometimes. We have an amazing scope above or nose called the eyes. The entire point of image quality is what looks preceiveably good to the eye. Scopes are useful in measuring and extrapolating the scientific data, but they only tell some of the story. If a highlight looks blown to our eye, it's blown. 

[IKSLIM]

On 3/30/2018 at 3:20 PM, Happy Daze said:

Method 2 is producing some surprising results indoors. Just for fun turn the color in the profile to full 1.99 on all 3 colours. Now use a negative exposure comp to bring the scene to the same level as would be the standard exposure profile. The ISO for capture is much lower and the noise is much less using the custom method compared to standard exposure.

Anyone else?

Man You made my day!!

Your trick with colour boost is simply one of THE BEST tricks with NX1 i ever tried!

RESPECT TO YOU MAN!

I can definitely see less contrasty curve in a more pleasant way. On top of that EXTRA STOP, which is additional bonus! I double checked with Manual Mode (M) also: it works the same way, for both: video and photo also (jpeg definitely)..

There is a bit of colour change in miner, but, all together makes picture more pleasant to my eye.

RESPECT TO YOU MAN! and thanks for such a great trick discovered…. The same as you, i will try to shoot at least a project with "Colour Boost" profile to report wether or not....

[Kisaha]

1 hour ago, IKSLIM said:

Man You made my day!!

Your trick with colour boost is simply one of THE BEST tricks with NX1 i ever tried!

RESPECT TO YOU MAN!

I can definitely see less contrasty curve in a more pleasant way. On top of that EXTRA STOP, which is additional bonus! I double checked with Manual Mode (M) also: it works the same way, for both: video and photo also (jpeg definitely)..

There is a bit of colour change in miner, but, all together makes picture more pleasant to my eye.

RESPECT TO YOU MAN! and thanks for such a great trick discovered…. The same as you, i will try to shoot at least a project with "Colour Boost" profile to report wether or not....

Can you explain the workflow a bit more?

I am not clearly understanding what is going on here!

I use only M for video, what is the workflow for that?

[IKSLIM]

8 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Can you explain the workflow a bit more?

I am not clearly understanding what is going on here!

I use only M for video, what is the workflow for that?

 

Just boost R G B colors to max (sounds creasy but it works) in custom1 picrure profile. Everything else left untouched. You will see it strait...

[IKSLIM]

I’m thinking on RGB trick discovered:
As far as i understand Samsung RGB logic (realised in PictureProfile tuning) - it is the middle point of a curve. Thus, when we rise all three together, we make picture brighter and less contrasty without touching exposure (ISO).

I can report: i have very nice improvement with boosting BlackLevel up to +15 on top of new RGB boost, + Expose Compensation - 2.

I can strongly recommend ALL NX1 users to experiment with RGB boost…

[Happy Daze]

1 hour ago, IKSLIM said:

I’m thinking on RGB trick discovered:
As far as i understand Samsung RGB logic (realised in PictureProfile tuning) - it is the middle point of a curve. Thus, when we rise all three together, we make picture brighter and less contrasty without touching exposure (ISO).

I can report: i have very nice improvement with boosting BlackLevel up to +15 on top of new RGB boost, + Expose Compensation - 2.

I can strongly recommend ALL NX1 users to experiment with RGB boost…

Very pleased that you like the discovery.

It may be my imagination but I am also noticing an improvement in auto-focus speed/accuracy and a reduction in cadence.

The colours for me are a definite improvement and there is most surely an improved dynamic range. A much more pleasing picture in many respects.

I feel like I have new camera, weird!!??

The exposure compensation varies with lighting conditions, but I do find that -5 contrast is also quite flattering.

Cheers, Paul.

[BopBill]

I'm going to try this at some point.

[ReinisK]

Thus is definitely worth looking at. I've done a few tests in even lighting. Can't say anything about the DR improvement, but it certainly increases exposure by about 1 stop. 

Someone asked for a boosted max iso hack. So there you go :D

Also, maybe there's a chance that it would have a positive effect on noise reduction. Like if the NR kicks in at 2000iso, you could use 1000iso instead for thr same exposure and not get the NR. That's just a thought for now.

[Happy Daze]

1 hour ago, ReinisK said:

Also, maybe there's a chance that it would have a positive effect on noise reduction. Like if the NR kicks in at 2000iso, you could use 1000iso instead for thr same exposure and not get the NR. That's just a thought for now.

That is exactly what happens. You get 1 extra stop which reduces the ISO required for the same exposure and the noise reduces accordingly.

[Kisaha]

6 minutes ago, Happy Daze said:

That is exactly what happens. You get 1 extra stop which reduces the ISO required for the same exposure and the noise reduces accordingly.

The only think we do, is to max the 3 colors on the settings?

What if I have different values for each (close at max, but one or two a bit less) because I usually have those adjusted slightly.

Or is it April's fool already?! It is, isn't it?!

[Happy Daze]

20 hours ago, ReinisK said:

Interesting results. I watched the video on my phone, so could be wrong, but there are a few things I want to say.

You defined highlight clipping only by looking at the scopes, but I would say, that if you compare the first and the last test, it's visible, that the hanging leaves on the tree have less detail in the last shot, than in the first one.

I'm saying, that maybe even if the scopes are not at 100%, the highlights are still blown. For a better test, I would suggest looking at highlights and shadows together, and look closely at the detail in them (basicaly, analyze highlights the same as you did with the shadows).

Yes you are right. As I said in an earlier post the highlights are actually blown/clipping but at a lower level than 255, even though the scopes appear fine. I believe that the method of lowering the color settings and increasing exposure is failed, BUT in reverse: take color settings to +1.99 and reduce exposure (-1, -1.30) then this proves to have benefits, which you can read from the other posts in this thread.

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

The only think we do, is to max the 3 colors on the settings?

What if I have different values for each (close at max, but one or two a bit less) because I usually have those adjusted slightly.

Or is it April's fool already?! It is, isn't it?!

I normally adjust colour as well to be different form standard as I found some colours were just over the top, so sure you can vary them slightly for the same benefit. But I have found that the colours improve when on full +1.99 and I find the colour variance is now not necessary. 

It may be April Fools day, but think of this as an Easter present, much better than an egg.