Can We Please have a 5" Shogun Inferno

[markr041]

With more and more cameras providing increased capabilities for recording via their HDMI or SDI ports, the value of external recorders has increased - the GH5 provides 4K 60 422 10bit only via HDMI; the FS5 provides 4K 30P RAW, 4K DCI 120P from RAW, and 240P 2K from RAW; the EVA1 also has increased capabilities like 240P 2k output; and the tiny RX0 provides 10bit 422 4K via HDMI.

But we only have 7"-screen recorders, which are absurdly large even for the bigger, but still portable cameras. On the EVA1, for example, the Shogun Inferno looks ridiculous, adding bulk and imbalance, as the attached photo shows.

Please, (anyone) give us a 5" recorder with the capabilities of the Shogun Inferno, or even better, a smaller recorder without any screen - the battery life will be better and overheating will be less of a problem. BlackMagic? Convergent Design? Atomos? Video Devices? Sony? C'mon.

I actually do not find the Shogun Inferno screen useful even for shooting for HDR - if you go into Atomos HDR mode, the screen becomes very dim and almost impossible to see in bright light. I basically just use the waveform (which is useful, but that does NOT need a 7" screen).

[webrunner5]

No F ing screen, Get real LoL. Why the hell bother. You pretty much buy one of those to check focus more than anything. No screen, still in the dark on that point. Literally.

[markr041]

2 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

No F ing screen, Get real LoL. Why the hell bother.

Your comment can be interpreted two ways: 1. a screen is a must, and why bother getting a recorder without a screen. Or 2., why bother with a screen. ???

Every camera has its own screen; we do not need another screen. And as my post indicates, the screen is not that useful.

[webrunner5]

A screen is a Must on most crappy DSLR, Mirroless cameras with the LCD they use.. You are not checking focus with a 3" screen outdoors that is 300 Nits tops..

[markr041]

5 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

A screen is a Must on most crappy DSLR, Mirroless cameras.

Ok, got it. But the cameras we are talking about that have special capabilities through their ports do not have lousy screens (they could be better, but they are ok). But an extra 7" screen? The recorder/screen is almost bigger than the GH5, weighs almost as much as the FS5, and of course is totally ridiculous with the RX0! The point is the cameras I named have perfectly adequate screens. External recorders are not for "most" DSLR, Mirrorless camera, but just a very special few.

[webrunner5]

Well when using Manual focus lenses on a video camera a bigger LCD is almost a necessity in my view, pun intended LoL. I know I am old school on here but I still don't trust AF for shit on a Video camera for anything serious. I see a Need for a good LCD screen.

And I know I will hear well I need AF for Run n Gun. And you know what Run n Gun on average looks like, pretty poor quality wise. Now if you want that look like you are having a Epileptic Seizure well have at it..

[markr041]

20 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Well when using Manual focus lenses on a video camera a bigger LCD is almost a necessity in my view, pun intended LoL.

This is silly. Why? Because for those like you who want a big screen, there are big screens already available. What is the point of arguing that you need a big screen? I am sure others like big screens too. But, not everyone is you, or them.

I can focus perfectly well on a 5" screen, so can Philip Bloom - there are focus aids for manual focusing, from pixel-level to magnification, to color outlining. In fact I can manual focus well on a 3.2" screen too, with these aids, if the screen is sharp enough.

If my post was to advocate banning 7"  screens, your pleas would be apt. I am just pleading for another choice for people.

[webrunner5]

I never said I didn't want a 5" screen, I told you that in the RXO thread. You said you don't want ANY damn screen. Oh it saves the battery. Cheap ass, buy more batteries LoL.

"if the screen is sharp enough". Please tell us what 3.2 in screen is sharp enough on any camera we can afford. Only a few Canon one comes to mind. Plus everyone that is over 18 years old or wears glasses can't see a LCD. I don't give a crap if you are 10 years old if you wear glasses you can't see shit anytime other than when you first clean them, even then I doubt it..

Philip Bloom, hell if I shot as slow as he does I would fall asleep on my feet. He probably can't see either that is why he takes so long. 

[jonpais]

I’ve written pretty extensively about the Shogun Inferno over at my blog. I bought it mostly for 4K 60p and for use as an HDR grading monitor. As far as using it with a mirrorless camera, you can just about forget going handheld unless you’re a bodybuilder. Trying to adjust any of the onscreen controls while holding the camera with one hand is pretty ridiculous. Five inches is ideal for handheld work. 

[JordanWright]

I would prefer a 5'' over a 7 inch for anything even remotely run & gun

[webrunner5]

Yeah I agree give me, well I will buy one, a 5", with a damn screen,  a Atomos Flame actually.

1 minute ago, JordanWright said:

I would prefer a 5'' over a 7 inch for anything even remotely run & gun

Why is so many people in a hurry to shoot video LoL. You have a police warrant out on you?

[markr041]

2 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I never said I didn't want a 5" screen, I told you that in the RXO thread. You said you don't want ANY damn screen. Oh it saves the battery. Cheap ass, buy more batteries LoL.

"if the screen is sharp enough". Please tell us what 3.2 in screen is sharp enough on any camera we can afford. Only a few Canon one comes to mind. Plus everyone that is over 18 years old or wears glasses can't see a LCD. I don't give a crap if you are 10 years old if you wear glasses you can't see shit anytime other than when you first clean them, even then I doubt it..

Philip Bloom, hell if I shot as slow as he does I would fall asleep on my feet. He probably can't see either that is why he takes so long. 

You still don't get it: for handheld speedy shooting we need small and light. Saving power means smaller batteries, again, small and light. I in fact prefer small batteries and thus buying multiples. Plenty of good videos are shot without external monitors. And there are videos that cannot be shot with big rigs. So, let's have choice; you do what you do with gigantic batteries and monitors on big tripods while others move around. 

[mkabi]

I want something way slimmer than the current inferno. Cut down the fat!

[markr041]

Ok, we all agree give us a 5" Inferno. And for some, just the recorder like the Atomos Ninja and the Sony external recorder (big and ridiculously expensive).

[webrunner5]

2 minutes ago, markr041 said:

You still don't get it: for handheld speedy shooting we need small and light. Saving power means smaller batteries, again, small and light. I in fact prefer small batteries and thus buying multiples. Plenty of good videos are shot without external monitors. And there are videos that cannot be shot with big rigs. So, let's have choice; you do what you do with gigantic batteries and monitors on big tripods while others move around. 

Yeah if all you did was have a small lens on say a Sony A6300 and that is all I can see it. But most people on here have a camera rig from hell. You might as well have a Arri Alexa. And then be on a tripod, and hell why not a 7" screen.

Unless you are on vacation with your wife you really Need all that crap for a rig to get good results. Philip Bloom seems to do ok using a tripod. I have Never seen him hand hold anything. Slow down, smell the Roses.

[markr041]

9 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah if all you did was have a small lens on say a Sony A6300 and that is all I can see it. But most people on here have a camera rig from hell. You might as well have a Arri Alexa. And then be on a tripod, and hell why not a 7" screen.

Unless you are on vacation with your wife you really Need all that crap for a rig to get good results. Philip Bloom seems to do ok using a tripod. I have Never seen him hand hold anything. Slow down, smell the Roses.

I think it is inappropriate to say what is needed for "good" results. But in any case the smaller you can make the rig the more flexibility you have for where and when you can shoot. 

[webrunner5]

I just playing  with you @markr041 I agree even a no screen one for people that shoot like you, and I do at times, would be a benefit. I just don't see why BM and Atomos doesn't have one that will do 4k at all. Why?

Speed and small don't come to mind to me for top notch video. There is a reason nearly all Cine cameras are big as hell on average. I know it is changing, but you need certain things for decent output, like it or not.

You want the look like footage from old 8mm film well that is not hard to do. It is easy to half ass anything, trying to get the best you can, well that is hard and time consuming. But I have the time to try to do it better, maybe you don't. Running around like you are being shot at is not my idea of a fun shoot LoL. But you are probably younger than I am.

[markr041]

I appreciate your comments, as always. But look at the picture in the first post - that is a pro with a big camera on which is mounted the Shogun, and the guy is not using it to view, let alone focus. It is just being used to record. That picture is from an Atomos sponsored video.

Gimbal mounted rigs also do not need big monitors. Big rigs and big monitors do not need to go together. A lot of video involves cameras being mobile while shooting. ENG does not use big monitors either, but ENG uses big cameras. Yet some of the cameras they use can benefit from the quality that only an external recorder provides. The latest advances in AF are going to make manual focusing and manual lenses less desirable for many uses, so big monitors less relevant. But 4K, high bitrates, and HFR are increasingly important and those are features that only, in many cases, external recorders can give us.

[kye]

Well, this is a lively conversation!!

As I see it @markr041 and @webrunner5 are both right with excellent points.  

The big one for me is that @webrunner5 is right to equate run-and-gun with poor quality, and that is exactly why we need smaller high quality devices.  A few points:

1) why shoot run-and-gun?  
Reason #1 - because some things move very quickly and you need to move quickly to follow them.  Exhibit A - kids and any family outing.  No pauses, no waiting, no do-overs.  
Reason #2 - because content is king and most of the world is more than 20m walk from where you can park your equipment truck!  You need to get to the places worth shooting - and these are often at the end of long hikes.
Reason #3 - because many historically or culturally significant places don't let you in with a tripod - Vatican City wouldn't let me in with a ~25cm tall Gorillapod!  And good luck getting into almost anywhere with a camera that looks 'pro'.

2) why do run-and-gun shooters need high-quality equipment?
Reason #1 - it's precisely because we don't have control of the environment that we need higher quality recording.  If you shoot slowly and in controlled situations you can shoot with a camera with 6 stops of DR in 8-bit.  Good luck with that if you're outside and the sun is shining.  Part of the reason that camcorders and home videos look so awful is because people used them where the action was, not where the lighting was like a film-set.  
We need higher DR because the sun shines on things we're filming.
We need higher bit-depth because sometimes the sun goes behind a cloud when we're recording and now the exposure is way under and we need to significantly boost the gain to get a sensible exposure.
We need higher frame rates because we haven't got the ability to predict what will need to be in slow-motion and what won't.  So we would ideally like to film everything in slow motion.

Do I need to keep going? :D

[webrunner5]

1 hour ago, markr041 said:

I appreciate your comments, as always. But look at the picture in the first post - that is a pro with a big camera on which is mounted the Shogun, and the guy is not using it to view, let alone focus. It is just being used to record. That picture is from an Atomos sponsored video.

That might have been for the Focus puller to use, or even the Client to view, the director. There is lots of reasons for a large monitor on a shoot. When I am uptown where I live I get lots of people that just want to look at what I see when I am shooting. Most people have Never seen a Pro looking outfit, let alone seen what a screen looks like with all the icons on them, Waveform,  Zebras, etc. I think it is interesting to educate people. It can be distracting, but hey I have list of people that want to be in my "Film" LoL. Well maybe not when some of them Sober Up LoL.