BMPC 4k vs. GH5

[Anaconda_]

I've recently been wondering what the GH5 has over the BMPC 4k.

Now that it's a few years old and has been discontinued for a while, you can get fantastic deals on the BMPC, even fully kitted out with SSD included, and a whole rig, for quite a lot less than a GH5, yet the GH5 seems to be a favourite here and almost everywhere. As far as I can see, the only advantage of a GH5 is 4k50p output and a rotating screen... Am I missing something?

Is it simply that the BMPC is old news, and all the excitement is on page 400 of this forum, while the GH5 is still new and dominating the front pages? From what I've seen, even now, I'd sooner by the BMPC 4K over GH5, but fear I might be missing something somewhere. Please enlighten me!

[cantsin]

The two cameras exist in completely different segments. The GH5 is above all a highly portable run-and-gun camera, with compact size, in-body-stabilization and long battery life that can be used in scenarios where you'd used a C300 or Sony FS in the past. It tries to do everything - photography, high quality video - but compromises in signal processing and codec.

The Blackmagic Cinema Camera is comparatively big, heavy, needs external power for longer use, needs external audio and/or preamps, needs IR filters and handles like a digital cinema camera. You get beautiful images in Raw or ProRes, no rolling shutter, but need a more complex rig. (The camera is too big and heavy for DSLR class tripods and stabilizers and is not meant for handheld shooting.)

Which camera is better for you, completely depends on what and how you are shooting.

[Anaconda_]

Ah gotcha, I'm not looking to buy either camera, but I was just wondering why what appears to be the perfect 'small' camera is so overlooked. (I know perfect cameras are subjective)

To me, based on your comment, battery and stabilisation seems to be the biggest reason. I would argue that the GH5 also needs external audio if you actually plan on using it. If you don't plan on using it, then that's not really much different for either cam - it might make syncing a little harder without scratch, but not a huge deal.

I would imagine if you're using a GH5 in the same capacity as a C300 or FS, you've also got it on a rig. By then, you're not exactly much smaller than the BMPC on a rig. Especially if you still wanted to record in ProRes, adding a 7 inch monitor, you're actually a lot heavier and bigger than the BMPC for the same(ish) results.

I've never used either, so it's all speculation, but I think I'd still sooner pickup a kitted out BMPC and save some dosh while I'm at it. It seems ideal for documentaries and shorts a like. The only place I can see a GH5 being the better solution is for event coverage.

 

[cantsin]

44 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

I would imagine if you're using a GH5 in the same capacity as a C300 or FS, you've also got it on a rig. By then, you're not exactly much smaller than the BMPC on a rig. Especially if you still wanted to record in ProRes, adding a 7 inch monitor, you're actually a lot heavier and bigger than the BMPC for the same(ish) results.

If you rig up the GH5 with external recorders and monitors, yes. But you can never get the BMPC as small as the GH5, and need a whole different class of tripods and stabilizers for them. (Even a rigged-up GH5 can still be unrigged and put on a small gimbal or monopod. Not the BMPC.)

On top of that, the BMPC cannot use MFT lenses and Speed Boosters and has a low native ISO of 400.

[Anaconda_]

4 minutes ago, cantsin said:

If you rig up the GH5 with external recorders and monitors, yes. But you can never get the BMPC as small as the GH5, and need a whole different class of tripods and stabilizers for them. (Even a rigged-up GH5 can still be unrigged and put on a small gimbal or monopod. Not the BMPC.)

On top of that, the BMPC cannot use MFT lenses and Speed Boosters and has a low native ISO of 400.

According to B&H there's not a HUGE deal of size difference though, but BM is over twice the weight. 

BMPC - 6.53 x 4.45 x 4.96" - 3.75 lb

GH5 -   5.5 x 3.9 x 3.4" - 1.59 lb

Also, from what I understand, you have the low ISO (don't go about 800 I've read), but a much bigger sensor, so you can't simply compare those numbers to compare image brightness. Then you can push and pull the ProRes or RAW recordings a lot more, so can probably brighten it a lot on post and still maintain a lot of the detail... again, not used the camera so don't know for sure. 

Depending on your own lens collection, I wouldn't count being unable to use MFT lenses as a negative, and could argue that since you don't need a speed booster, is a much bigger positive point for the BMPC. Especially because, going back to price, to get that speed booster is only a little cheaper than buying the BMPC anyway. You could have 2 for less than a GH5 with speed booster! 

I don't mean to sound argumentative, and hope this is being read as a discussion. Aside from the IBS and battery life I still feel the BMPC - or even two at this point - would suit a lot of styles of shooting better than a GH5, especially if it's your bread and butter.

Either any monopod or this would solve the stabilisation issue and you can just buy more batteries. 

[jonpais]

I don’t think you’d want to be mounting the BMPC on that rig. Not sure a monopod’s a solution either. It’s not a run ‘n gun camera.

[anonim]

3 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

 Please enlighten me!

I'd say - it is very hard goal to achieve

[Anaconda_]

Thanks Jon, but could I ask you to expand a little more?

A run 'n gun camera can be whatever camera is nearest. Imagine not getting the shot because you were holding a BMPC instead of the GH5 that in your bag. Like I said, for events, sure BMPC isn't the best, but for more or less everything else, it seems to come out on top.

I also can't see why a monopod or that rig won't work. In fact, I had an FS5 on that one just yesterday and it was perfect for the moment. While filming, the weight of the camera was still in my hands, but I could brace it against my body for stabilisation. Then when I'm not actively filming, my shoulder took the weight and my hand was just to stop it falling. Why would it be any different for any other camera?

6 minutes ago, anonim said:

I'd say - it is very hard goal to achieve

Yes, perhaps you're right.

Like any camera comparison, though, there's no clear answer. I feel like I'm being biased, and don't mean to be, I don't own either camera and don't plan on buying one or the other, it's purely hypothetical interest. In fact, I use a GX80 as an easy to grab b-cam, so if anything should favour the GH5 which shares many great features and adds a whole load more.

[anonim]

To contribute with my usually pure enlightening voice - image wise (it seems that finally it is the most important gradient for you) I'd be more tempted with BMCC for slow, accurate, art short and documentary (cheap!) shooting. BMPC had never been considered as "signature" BM color achievement in BM users comunity - quite contrary. (Btw I had it, as BMCC and GH5 also.)

https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=44239&sid=0b25d9a83e49a7d0a0157e2c72845267

[IronFilm]

BMPC4K = poor dynamic range, and very poor low light, poor ergonomics. 

URSA Mini 4K (which goes secondhand for around the same price sometimes!) = all of the above, except not so much the last point

Neither interests me at all, not unless offered at a SCREAMING DEAL (say $1K?!). 

Those first two deficiencies are just too big to overlook!

I'll take that Panasonic GH5S (or GH5) instead thanks. (heck, I'd probably even prefer the BMPCC over the BMPC4K!)

[JordanWright]

I would also lean toward a BMCC or a BMMCC before the BMPC4K. Saying that I haven't used either. I went the GH5 route anyway.

[Nikkor]

What's the deal with the micro cinema camera 4K? Never read about it on the forum, 4K raw in a small (so you need a recorder? Or just a monitor?)

[TwoScoops]

There is no 4K micro cinema. 

[cantsin]

2 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

Either any monopod or this would solve the stabilisation issue and you can just buy more batteries. 

No, definitely not, this is too weak for the camera. (I own both the BMCC, which has the same housing as the BMPC, and this chestpod, so I know what I am writing about.) And the BMPC only has a non-exchangeable internal battery (which doesn't last long and will last even less when you buy the camera second-hand) and needs beefy external batteries like V-Mounts or at least Sony F970s to run for a reasonable amount of time.

I strongly suggest you rent the BMPC to find out that it's not a drop-in replacement for a GH5, just like a truck is not a drop-in replacement for a compact car.

 

[Anaconda_]

Ah cool, reading the rest of the comments since my last has given me more information. Like I say, I have no interest in buying either camera, but at my first glance they seemed like they're for similar markets... As made abundantly clear now, they are not. That's why we ask questions huh?  

 

@IronFilm I've seen at least 3 go kitted out for €900 here, which is what got me thinking.

@cantsin I still don't get that. It works fine with an FS5 so why not the BMPC? I didn't realise about the battery, it didn't even cross my mind to look if you could take the battery out... What a crazy design.

That said, hanging on to my ignorance, knowing I have never used either camera, I still find it hard to believe there's much in it once you learn the limitations of each camera. Since they're more or less the same size though, isn't it more like replacing a classic sports car with a Tesla? They're both great, but one runs on batteries and self drives (Gh5 with ibs) and the other is discontinued and needs a bit of tinkering after a days drive (BMPC with raw). 

Thanks all, I feel enlightened and  comfortable with the camera I'd chose at the end of the day.

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

 

[jonpais]

but they are not more or less the same size. have you ever seen one first hand?

[Nikkor]

2 hours ago, TwoScoops said:

There is no 4K micro cinema. 

True, it's called studio and has no SD card slot. https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicmicrostudiocamera4k

[Anaconda_]

I have, both filming the exact same thing.

As per B&H, the BM is larger, but it's far from comparing a GH5 to an FS5. 

BMPC - 6.53 x 4.45 x 4.96" - 3.75 lb

GH5 -   5.5 x 3.9 x 3.4" - 1.59 lb

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but there is a lot of hostility around something I thought could be an interesting comparison. I am reading and understanding comments, and trying to argue points that might have been overlooked like the fact that you have to have external audio on the BM... You also do on the GH if you want to use it.

Thanks again everyone for contributing.

[cantsin]

These numerical measures are not a good comparison because the BMPC is one solid, square block whereas the cubic measurement of the GH5 contains a lot of air.

[jonpais]

Just the same, there are dozens of significant differences between the two cameras: not just the battery; not only 4K 60p; and and not solely an articulating screen.

I would recommend checking out some reviews of the BMPC if you haven't already.

Properly kitted out, it will set you back much more than a GH5.

If you think saying the BMPC won't work with a $25 Cowboy plastic shoulder rig is hostility and not simply a statement of fact, sorry for that.