BMPC 4k vs. GH5

[Don Kotlos]

Well even if you don't account for the nonbox shape of GH5 the BMPC is double the volume. 73 vs 144 cubic inches. 

Don't think is there is much hostility, just the fact that these cameras are meant for different things. Sure you can make the BMPC work handheld with something like this but the general advice is not to   .

It would be easier to rig up the micro studio with an external recorder, or if you don't need IBIS or high resolution stills go with the GH5s instead. 

 

 

[webrunner5]

Forget about a BMPC. It is a thing of the past. A GH5 is s far more advanced for video work it is not even funny. Other than a Ursa of some kind all the rest of BM cameras are sort of a second, third camera people have to play with once in awhile. Sure they have a great output in the right situations, but they are a total pain in the ass to use and rig compared to any GH5.

The GH5 is pretty much the latest and greatest thing out there for under 5 grand. You can make a living with one. Buy a Normal camera and then buy a BMPC to play with later. They are a good leaning tool to have to learn how to grade with. Almost everyone on here has had a BMPCC at one time. They are great, yet but compared to a GH5 for normal daily stuff the GH5 is pretty much unbeatable. And it appears the GH5s is even better other than the lack of IBIS.

For the same money, heck even less, you can buy a used Panasonic GH4 which tons of people have made tons of great stuff with. Other than 10 bit, 4k 60p they are not that far behind the GH5. Color science is a bit worse on them, but for someone new starting out they are a buy of a lifetime now used.

[mercer]

2 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Forget about a BMPC. It is a thing of the past. A GH5 is s far more advanced for video work it is not even funny. Other than a Ursa of some kind all the rest of BM cameras are sort of a second, third camera people have to play with once in awhile. Sure they have a great output in the right situations, but they are a total pain in the ass to use and rig compared to any GH5.

The GH5 is pretty much the latest and greatest thing out there for under 5 grand. You can make a living with one. Buy a Normal camera and then buy a BMPC to play with later. They are a good leaning tool to have to learn how to grade with. Almost everyone on here has had a BMPCC at one time. They are great, yet but compared to a GH5 for normal daily stuff the GH5 is pretty much unbeatable. And it appears the GH5s is even better other than the lack of IBIS.

I’d take a BMPCC/BMMCC over a GH5 any day of the week, especially for narrative work.

Sure the GH5/s may be an easier solution but at a certain point, getting a great image isn’t necessarily supposed to be easy.

But if you want an all in one easy solution, the GH5 will beat the BM cameras every day of the week.

But if you want a more cinematic look at half the cost, the Pocket or Micro wins.

[BTM_Pix]

I think the BMPCC/BMMCC/BMCC etc are fantastic sensor and storage solutions to base your own custom cinema setup on.

Whereas I think the GH5 is a fantastic camera. 

With the BM stuff, they give you the insides but you have to provide the camera that goes around it, if that makes sense.

Both very worthy approaches but both very different and one doesn't negate the other.

I look at the BM stuff versus a GH5 like the Sigma Foveon cameras versus something like a Fuji X100F.

Both APS-C, both fixed lens but the Fuji canes the Sigma at every turn for low light, speed and functionality but then you look at the RAW images from the Sigma. 

Thats not to say the GH5 can't make fantastic images because it demonstrably can but just that - like the Sigmas - within a smaller operating window of and with a lot more effort in post the BM stuff can make images that truly shine.

[graphicnatured]

17 minutes ago, mercer said:

I’d take a BMPCC/BMMCC over a GH5 any day of the week, especially for narrative work.

Sure the GH5/s may be an easier solution but at a certain point, getting a great image isn’t necessarily supposed to be easy.

But if you want an all in one easy solution, the GH5 will beat the BM cameras every day of the week.

But if you want a more cinematic look at half the cost, the Pocket or Micro wins.

Couldn't agree more. I love what I see from the GH5(s) but they still don't have the image those little BMs do. I still want a GH5s for ease and portability and will surely buy one because it is a huge step up from their older GH series. Back to the point though. Every time I'm on a shoot and see the image my Micro produces on my monitor I'm reminded of just how incredible these cheap little boxes are.

[mercer]

31 minutes ago, graphicnatured said:

Couldn't agree more. I love what I see from the GH5(s) but they still don't have the image those little BMs do. I still want a GH5s for ease and portability and will surely buy one because it is a huge step up from their older GH series. Back to the point though. Every time I'm on a shoot and see the image my Micro produces on my monitor I'm reminded of just how incredible these cheap little boxes are.

Exactly! I read the BMCUser forum and am surprised by home many diehards have abandoned their Pocket cams solely for ease of use. There’s an idea that good enough is okay... as long as it has 4K and IBIS. Lol. 

[SR]

5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

BMPC4K = poor dynamic range, and very poor low light, poor ergonomics. 

URSA Mini 4K (which goes secondhand for around the same price sometimes!) = all of the above, except not so much the last point

Why do you say the Ursa Mini has poor dynamic range? The files I saw online seemed to capture quite a large dynamic range.

13 minutes ago, SR said:

Why do you say the Ursa Mini has poor dynamic range? The files I saw online seemed to capture quite a large dynamic range.

My bad. I was thinking of the 4.6k Ursa mini.

[Anaconda_]

Alright, I obviously read it all wrong, my bad.

2 hours ago, jonpais said:

If you think saying the BMPC won't work with a $25 Cowboy plastic shoulder rig is hostility and not simply a statement of fact, sorry for that.

I still don't think that's a statement of fact though. Can you explain why it wouldn't work? as I said before, I used that exact plastic rig with an FS5 yesterday, all day and it worked perfectly, so I'm struggling to see why a smaller, lighter camera won't work. 

[webrunner5]

28 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

Alright, I obviously read it all wrong, my bad.

I still don't think that's a statement of fact though. Can you explain why it wouldn't work? as I said before, I used that exact plastic rig with an FS5 yesterday, all day and it worked perfectly, so I'm struggling to see why a smaller, lighter camera won't work. 

I have that exact cheap ass piece of crap myself. It broke in my trunk. If you think that is the best thing to show up to a shoot with Wow is all I can say! They cost 20 freaking dollars. Top end stuff, yeah right.

Buy Good stuff and you can keep it all your life. You drop one camera and you may be out of business. Trouble is almost all mirrorless and DSLR's are nearly impossible to rig for on the shoulder. The LCD, Viewfinder is too low on them. There Is a reason they make Cine cameras the way they do.

[Anaconda_]

I never said it was the best thing to show up to a shoot with, only that it can work. 

I know it's cheap, it looks cheap and feels cheap, but in my experience it does the job. I'd rather use it than not. I'm still unclear why a BMPC won't work on it. It's seems like you guys simply wouldnt want to use, which is fine, but then say so and don't present it as facts. 

 

[webrunner5]

5 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

I never said it was the best thing to show up to a shoot with, only that it can work. 

I know it's cheap, it looks cheap and feels cheap, but in my experience it does the job. I'd rather use it than not. I'm still unclear why a BMPC won't work on it. It's seems like you guys simply wouldnt want to use, which is fine, but then say so and don't present it as facts. 

 

I don't know ANYONE on here that has one. That is pretty much all you need to know. There is a reason for it. Don't buy one. Some people May have had one but..

In a sense it is the Best and Worse camera BM makes all at the same time.

And this why some people think it might be the best. but...

 

[Anaconda_]

Don't buy what? I've said a few times that I'm not looking to buy anything, but thought there was an interesting (or not) comparison to be made.

[webrunner5]

9 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

Don't buy what? I've said a few times that I'm not looking to buy anything, but thought there was an interesting (or not) comparison to be made.

Then why are you asking 50 questions then LoL. If you want to learn how to grade buy a BM product. IF you just want to start and go at it Don't buy a BM product. Simple as that.

Both ways work. It is your choice on how long you want it to take. If you are great at grading and have hours to shoot, buy a BMPC. You will be the Only one probably on your block to have one.  The cheaper, under 2500 dollars BM cameras are hands down the easiest camera to screw up. And in a sense that is a good way to learn how to shoot and grade. But there are times you want to throw the whole damn thing off a bridge and buy a ehh, Canon, god I can't believe I just said that.

[cantsin]

We've only covered the differences in the camera hardware here, but important differences also lie in the software. Blackmagic cameras give you an unprocessed image that is meant to be color-corrected, denoised and possibly sharpened in post. Cameras like the GH5 never give you an unprocessed image, not even in 10bit Log, but one with baked-in noise reduction, sharpening and geometry and vignetting correction of system lenses (just like most video camcorders do). 

What is better, completely depends on your needs and shooting scenarios. If you producing documentary, news, web video/vlogging and information programs with fast turnaround times, the GH5 is superior in every respect, because it saves you a lot of time. If you shoot movies, music videos, advertising or any other film where image quality and malleability trumps everything else, and you have the time for post production, you're better off with a Blackmagic than battling the (codec/signal processing) limitations of the GH5.

It's just like in photography where a medium format camera isn't by definition "better" than a 35mm SLR or rangefinder. Studio photographers worked with medium format, photo journalists with 35mm cameras. You could have taken a Hasselblad for a journalistic photo shoot (like a sports game or press conference), but the disadvantages in handling would have outweighed the advantages in image resolution. (Especially, when hardly anyone will see the difference in a newsprinted photograph. Similarly, hardly anyone will see the difference between a YouTube Vlog shot on a GH5 and a Vlog shots on a BMPC.)

(Correspondingly, the GH5 has about the size and weight of a 35mm SLR and the BMPC the size and weight of a medium format studio photography camera.) 

[Laurier]

I m actually seriously considering getting a Blackmagic 4k, you can get some for 750£, that stupidly cheap, I shoot a feature with one, motion and colors are fantastic compared to a GH5, its also way smaller than a Ursa mini and media is a lot cheaper.

The dynamic range is really not that bad, you can recover a lot of the highlight in post, not something you can really do with the gh5.

But yes you need fast glass, but you also need fast glass with a GH5 IMO.

Otherwise, yes it s a bit bigger and heavier.

[Emanuel]

2 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

I don't know ANYONE on here that has one. That is pretty much all you need to know. There is a reason for it. Don't buy one. Some people May have had one but..

In a sense it is the Best and Worse camera BM makes all at the same time.

And this why some people think it might be the best. but...

 

A good old partner of mine has one of them. He's very happy with it. Avoid higher than ISO800 and you'll be just fine :-)

[IronFilm]

13 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

As far as I can see, the only advantage of a GH5 is 4k50p output and a rotating screen... Am I missing something?

Beyond the points early I made of dynamic range and low light, the GH5 also benefits from: 

IBIS
Smaller form factor 
Mirrorless mount


Any one of those could be a very big factor for a person towards purchasing the GH5 instead. 

 

[Emanuel]

Don't forget AF, David! LOL (never thought to come here writing it... hehe let's not ignore the 179 hack :-D)

2 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Then why are you asking 50 questions then LoL. If you want to learn how to grade buy a BM product. IF you just want to start and go at it Don't buy a BM product. Simple as that.

Both ways work. It is your choice on how long you want it to take. If you are great at grading and have hours to shoot, buy a BMPC. You will be the Only one probably on your block to have one.  The cheaper, under 2500 dollars BM cameras are hands down the easiest camera to screw up. And in a sense that is a good way to learn how to shoot and grade. But there are times you want to throw the whole damn thing off a bridge and buy a ehh, Canon, god I can't believe I just said that.

You've just forgotten Fuji, Don! (E ;-)

[webrunner5]

3 hours ago, Emanuel said:

You've just forgotten Fuji, Don! (E ;-)

Ahh the Plastic Fantastic. Yeah I forgot it. I want to forget it. The thread on it reminds me of some of my daughters sleep overs years ago. Hehehehe, hehehhe, ahh he's cute, hehehehe. Jesus. Grown F ing men going hehehehe. It's output is so cute, hehehehe.

[IronFilm]

14 hours ago, Nikkor said:

What's the deal with the micro cinema camera 4K? Never read about it on the forum, 4K raw in a small (so you need a recorder? Or just a monitor?)

Like TwoScoops said, it is not a cinema camera it is a studio camera which gives you the hint it is not for us. 

It uses a completely different sensor that doesn't have the same dynamic range capabilities at release.

Although lately there has been a significant firmware update, which gives for instance a 4K raw output (it never had any internal recording capabilities). 

11 hours ago, Don Kotlos said:

It would be easier to rig up the micro studio with an external recorder, or if you don't need IBIS or high resolution stills go with the GH5s instead. 

Heh, you got me wondering now about which would be "less worse" the BMPC4K or the Micro Studio with a recorder? As I have quite a low opinion of both set ups. 

11 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

For the same money, heck even less, you can buy a used Panasonic GH4 which tons of people have made tons of great stuff with. Other than 10 bit, 4k 60p they are not that far behind the GH5. Color science is a bit worse on them, but for someone new starting out they are a buy of a lifetime now used.

Or a Panasonic G7 for practically almost free secondhand!

Or a Panasonic G85 for brand new at a cost similar to a secondhand GH4, and you'd get with the G85 an arguably better camera. 

11 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

The GH5 is pretty much the latest and greatest thing out there for under 5 grand. You can make a living with one.

Oh I dunno.... depends on how you count / evaluate it. 

Remember the Kinefinity Terra 4K goes for sub $5K as well!