few random questions

[Dan Wake]

are 16gb of ram enough to edit video in 4k (for example file video in 4k hdr from the new sony mirrorless)?

is a mechanical HDD (black version) enough fast to work with 4K video files?

will we see soon a cheap camera sensors that solve the problem of rolling shutter?

thx

[KnightsFan]

I'd say that 16gb of Ram and a 7200 rpm mechanical HDD are adequate for editing 4k that has typical consumer-camera compression (I haven't tried specifically with HDR from new Sony cams). Uncompressed or Raw 4k might be too much for the hard drive. And CPU and/or GPU can be a bottleneck, depending on the codec--H.265 for example takes a lot of computational power to decode.

No idea on the rolling shutter, but we all hope it's soon!

[HockeyFan12]

+1 for fixing rolling shutter.

[IronFilm]

2 hours ago, Dan Wake said:

will we see soon a cheap camera sensors that solve the problem of rolling shutter?

 

For 95%+ of shooters it is not a "problem".

[kye]

12 hours ago, Dan Wake said:

are 16gb of ram enough to edit video in 4k (for example file video in 4k hdr from the new sony mirrorless)?

is a mechanical HDD (black version) enough fast to work with 4K video files?

will we see soon a cheap camera sensors that solve the problem of rolling shutter?

thx

This depends on your situation.

If you're editing 4K RAW files and the Producer and Director are sitting behind you in your commercial edit suite, then no.  If you want to grade that footage with them watching then HELL NO.

I suspect that this is not the situation you're in, so it's all about compromises.  My sister studied film at university in the late 90s and I remember sitting in an edit suite all night helping her edit the documentary (and fix the terrible audio) she shot on a PD150 off a removable HDD, and we'd make the changes, hit RENDER, and then go for a walk while the computer re-rendered the changes we'd made, and then 30 minutes later it would be ready to watch and we'd review it and make more changes and then go for another walk...

I edit 4K on a laptop but I use a 720p proxy workflow, which may or may not work for you.

[HockeyFan12]

14 hours ago, IronFilm said:

For 95%+ of shooters it is not a "problem".

I wouldn't know since I must be in the other 5%. It's a huge problem for me.  

[Don Kotlos]

16 hours ago, Dan Wake said:

are 16gb of ram enough to edit video in 4k (for example file video in 4k hdr from the new sony mirrorless)?

Yes. 

16 hours ago, Dan Wake said:

is a mechanical HDD (black version) enough fast to work with 4K video files?

As other have said, it depends. The data rate of the compressed 4K sony file is not a lot, but since the codec is interframe the CPU has to find and decode multiple frames at once before it can make sense of any single frame thus putting a load on both the drive and the CPU. For normal editing & playback it should be fine. If you scratch back and forth you might find some limitation there but transcoding might help there. You can always use a proxy workflow. See more details here. 

16 hours ago, Dan Wake said:

will we see soon a cheap camera sensors that solve the problem of rolling shutter?

Cheap no but I sure hope so a solution comes soon for the consumer market. My guess is the new A7sIII will be very good but not cheap. I think for now the cheapest camera that offers decent rolling shutter performance is the GH5. 

[sam]

rolling shutter and the motion cadence are why I lug around the F35. I could do alexa,venice,etc...but the attributes mentioned above are why I stick to the ccd of the F35.  in retrospect, I should of just gone16mm and and saved over a decade of fiddling and applied the price of a median american home ive already spent on film!

 

[IronFilm]

8 hours ago, HockeyFan12 said:

I wouldn't know since I must be in the other 5%. It's a huge problem for me.  

What small niche kind of shoots are you doing that no one else is doing that makes rolling shutter such a "huge" problem for you specifically?

[HockeyFan12]

58 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

What small niche kind of shoots are you doing that no one else is doing that makes rolling shutter such a "huge" problem for you specifically?

I see a LOT of jello and skew in YouTube videos and drone videos, so I take issue with the 5% idea in the first place. But I agree it's not at the top of everyone's wish list, so I'm not really trying to argue there.

For me personally, the biggest problems are with strobe effects, flashing lights, etc. There are some work arounds, but they mostly involve using mechanical shutters on the lights or using only tungsten lights (which have a much more forgiving attack and decay envelope), but that's a problem because they're the wrong white balance, aren't very efficient, and they shift their color temperature in a strange way as they dim. When the frame is split down the middle it gets really ugly. For horror movies or music videos this can be a really big problem.

The other issue that's kind of niche is match moving. I can't get good 3D solves when there's skew because the scene sort of breaks apart irregularly when you pan and tilt. It's subtle but a 3D solve can reveal it sometimes. On wide angle lenses I've found this to be less of a problem.

The issue I have that's not so niche (imo) is with longer lenses and whip pans or just long lens footage in general. Or shooting wheels, propellers, guitar strings, etc. At 200mm I have a lot of problems. With anamorphic lenses I seem to get more skew, too.

I'm not arguing that global shutter is first on everyone's wish list, just answering your question as best I can.

[HockeyFan12]

I also just like the look of F35 and Alexa footage. The lack of skew (none on F35, vanishingly little on Alexa and film) and large camera body just looks better to me. But I realize I shouldn't complain.

[IronFilm]

8 hours ago, HockeyFan12 said:

I'm not arguing that global shutter is first on everyone's wish list, just answering your question as best I can.

Kudos on answering it well, as too many times I see people demanding a global shutter without really understanding any serious practical benefits of it other than some marginal gains. 

Even so, I don't think it is that important, no client is going to pay you more for having a camera with a global shutter or care. 
(and those rare times it might happen, you could always rent a F55 or whatever)

[Mark Romero 2]

On 4/4/2018 at 6:09 PM, Dan Wake said:

are 16gb of ram enough to edit video in 4k (for example file video in 4k hdr from the new sony mirrorless)?

is a mechanical HDD (black version) enough fast to work with 4K video files?

will we see soon a cheap camera sensors that solve the problem of rolling shutter?

thx

What video card are you using?

And are you going to cut 4K footage without using proxy files / cache?

I can edit Sony 4K XAVCS 100mbs footage fine with my gtx 960 2GB GPU... as long as I make proxy files first.

But I get all sorts of memory errors if I don't use proxy files.

Maybe a 960 with more than 2GB would be ok???

[webrunner5]

On the 16gb of ram it depends on what program you are using as much as anything. I use Resolve and it is more dependent on GPU memory, re write stats than removable Ram or CPU Speed. I found hardly any difference in 16 versus 32 gig when I upgraded. Video cards are the answer as of late.

So the better the video card the better it works. But it also depends in Resolve how many Nodes you have up also. The less the better. But it takes a good overall system to do it really good quickly. But like has been said, use Proxies if you are using a older rig.

And a used Samsung SSD, they seem to be the best, in this age is just too cheap to pass up on for editing 4k often.