NAB 2018

[kye]

2 minutes ago, anonim said:

I'd say - by large margin it is star of the show. For 300$ - if Resolve's technicians somehow manage to integrate Fusion's engine without mid-step of transcode, it is not just obvious Adobe killer, but and Flame also.

It's only $300 if you're not a Resolve license holder already.  If you are, then you are likely to get free upgrades for a long time (maybe forever).  Resolve users who bought their license at V8 can still use them on 14.  I bought mine as a v12 license, but it was second hand so who knows.

In a way I don't even mind a transcode, just having it integrated would be wonderful.  I'm new enough to the game that this whole idea of round-tripping seems like word processing by choosing fonts and colours and page layouts in individual applications.

8 minutes ago, jonpais said:

@kye Simultaneous SDR and HDR grading? I wonder how that works. hmmm

I am the last person who would know, but perhaps they're talking about ACES support?  I'm not sure how much you know about ACES but in theory you capture footage on whatever devices and then run them through a profile to then have them in the ACES colour space, then you can grade them however you like, and then you run them through whatever output profile you like, for example Rec.709, Rec.2020, etc.  Of course, you're never actually seeing what the ACES colour space looks like, because you'll be monitoring it through an output profile suitable for your monitor.  IIRC they say that if you grade on a Rec.709 monitor and then output to a Rec.2020 profile then it will take the dynamic range and colour space and somehow squeeze it to fit the output space.  I say squeeze because ACES is something like 26-bit internal, so everything is a squeeze from there.  I think they created it to have a larger colour space and DR than the human eye so that it can keep pace with future technology advancements.

I've looked into ACES a little as a way to try and match my different cameras, but most of them lack profiles yet.

[anonim]

8 minutes ago, kye said:

I'm not sure how much you know about ACES but in theory you capture footage on whatever devices and then run them through a profile to then have them in the ACES colour space, then you can grade them however you like, and then you run them through whatever output profile you like, for example Rec.709, Rec.2020, etc. 

Yes, some sort of similar scenario... Actually, even at v14 you can add node as FX to change different color gamuts, but I think that now will be also manageable to do it simultaneously at least as versions, or even as new separate viewing node.

[Kisaha]

I am seriously considering buying into Resolve, Adobe is becoming to expensive for me (editing is my 3rd line of work, I usually work in productions, not post), amd I had huge problems with loosing projects (well known 2017 bug), stupid bugs that I had to rename video extension files and whatever. But a tried Resolve a year ago and it was nothing like a complete one stop solution. And Lumetri was enough for my color skills and needs. 

I believe Resolve is the future, but maybe not the present?

[anonim]

10 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

I believe Resolve is the future, but maybe not the present?

It maybe depends on the someone's answer to contra-question: does Premiere present past now, or will present it tomorrow

But, without any doubt, Including of Fusion as non-rendered tab in Resolve would be death attack on Flame - better editing and better FX possibilities in the same time. Without even concerning top grading and - as it seems - rapidly growing audio finishing power. (If Fairlight in v15 manage to offer repairing solution near to IZotopeFX, it would be unbelievable!)

[Kisaha]

6 minutes ago, anonim said:

It maybe depends on the someone's answer to contra-question: does Premiere present past now, or will present it tomorrow

But, without any doubt, Including of Fusion as non-rendered tab in Resolve would be death attack on Flame - better editing and better FX possibilities in the same time. Without even concerning top grading and - as it seems - rapidly growing audio finishing power. (If Fairlight in v15 manage to offer repairing solution near to IZotopeFX, it would be unbelievable!)

There is a new Adobe version, which I haven't download yet (I have paid dearly updating Adobe apps before! huge problems and late deliveries, almost non deliveries, because of them) and I read that this is a major release (but that's what they said for previous ones too!). Audio was an issue in previous Resolve editions. Izotope is top, I am not sure anyone can reach that, or should (as it is a very specialized program, and it is good to have those!).

We will see, I will try the 15 when it is available with a small project in the near future. Adobe disappoints more times than not. 

[kye]

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

There is a new Adobe version, which I haven't download yet (I have paid dearly updating Adobe apps before! huge problems and late deliveries, almost non deliveries, because of them) and I read that this is a major release (but that's what they said for previous ones too!). Audio was an issue in previous Resolve editions. Izotope is top, I am not sure anyone can reach that, or should (as it is a very specialized program, and it is good to have those!).

We will see, I will try the 15 when it is available with a small project in the near future. Adobe disappoints more times than not. 

My impression is that Resolve 15 will be an all-in-one that features a colour module at v15, an editor at v3, fairlight at whatever version it is but at integration v2, and Fusion at whatever version it is at but integration v1.  I chose it for myself because I don't need (or even understand) most of the features that a pro editor would want or need, but would want much more sophisticated colour capabilities (I view the colour module as Adobe Lightroom for video with full tracking).

If you're someone that wants or needs video editing features of a mature editing platform then I'd be careful switching to Resolve and make sure you do your research first.  It's about strengths and weaknesses.  Also, be really specific with researching what particular features you use - it might work great for most things but if the things you rely on are buggy or whatever then you won't have a good experience.

I do believe, however, that Resolve is the future.  I have heard from multiple others that Resolve is getting better many times faster than the other options, and while I've only been a user since v12.5 during that time they've added Fairlight and Fusion, so even in that short period of time they're moving incredibly quickly.  I can also attest to it getting less buggy over time.  I used to have Resolve v12.5 crash outright about once every 30-60 minutes of use (it saves regularly so normally it's not a big deal) and it would start acting funny and you'd need to restart it quite a bit too.  V14 almost completely eliminated the crashes, but it will still go funny every now and then, with hotkeys suddenly not working, and all manner of other things just not doing what you'd expect.  

It's definitely a work in progress, but to give you an idea about what life in Resolve is like, when I saw Adobe release the Lumetri colour panels I immediately thought "is that all?", then I saw the reaction from YouTubers and laughed out loud.  That upgrade is laughably minute.  It's the right stuff for sure, and very usable, but I was using things in Resolve that Lumetri doesn't have  within the first 20 minutes of having installed Resolve, and use them on most grades.  It's like people getting excited over being given a hotkey for splitting clips.

[Don Kotlos]

15 minutes ago, anonim said:

- "We've hit the point where there is NO excuse for not shooting cinematic footage with even a $1000 camera. Everything from now on will just be nitpicking features to make things easier/quicker/efficient"

I agree. The 4K market between $1000-2500 is now very "rich". We have the hybrids GH5/A7III/X-H1,  but then we have the professional-video-oriented GH5s, BMPCCv2 and even the Z-CAM E2.  

[Danyyyel]

It amuses me when someone just correlate cinematic to 4k. I mean there are so many other factors like DR. frame rate, lighting etc which are so much more important when you have at least good 1080p.

[Don Kotlos]

11 minutes ago, Danyyyel said:

It amuses me when someone just correlate cinematic to 4k. I mean there are so many other factors like DR. frame rate, lighting etc which are so much more important when you have at least good 1080p.

I didn't see that correlation anywhere, but yes I agree that a "good" 1080p is more than enough. But unfortunately with most cameras in this price segment (other than BM and GH5/s) to get a good 1080p means you have to shoot at 4K and convert to 1080p in post. 

[kye]

8 hours ago, Don Kotlos said:

I didn't see that correlation anywhere, but yes I agree that a "good" 1080p is more than enough. But unfortunately with most cameras in this price segment (other than BM and GH5/s) to get a good 1080p means you have to shoot at 4K and convert to 1080p in post. 

Absolutely, and to further expand on that I think it's a sliding scale.  If the 1080 is great (eg, BMPCC) then use it straight out, and if the camera/codec is rubbish then you'd need to downscale 4K to 1080 for it to be of good quality, but there are cameras in the middle where the quality is sufficient to use 3K or 2.5K and when downscaled to 1080 they are good.  In these cases there is room to crop into the image a bit and still have a good 1080 delivery.  Cropping isn't everyones cup of tea, but it allows refinement of composition, and also things like (light) stabilisation in post without really hurting the 1080p, so in this way it makes things a bit more usable and is relevant artistically.

[Emanuel]

http://www.z-cam.com/e2/

[Kisaha]

2 hours ago, Emanuel said:

http://www.z-cam.com/e2/

Interesting for sure, and H.265 main 10 profile. For most people that is more useful than raw and whatnot, if it wasn't for the Pocket, that would be the most amazing camera release this year, but after the pocket, everything changed(and can record prores LT for lesser projects)!

I am wondering, what are the big Japanese corporates are thinking after these couple of days?

[jonpais]

17 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Interesting for sure, and H.265 main 10 profile. For most people that is more useful than raw and whatnot, if it wasn't for the Pocket, that would be the most amazing camera release this year, but after the pocket, everything changed(and can record prores LT for lesser projects)!

I am wondering, what are the big Japanese corporates are thinking after these couple of days?

My feeling is if the big players didn’t react to the GH5’s 10-bit codec and 4K 60p, a much smaller company is not going to have much impact at all. The only way is to keep pressuring the manufacturers and their representatives at every opportunity. 

[Kisaha]

1 hour ago, jonpais said:

My feeling is if the big players didn’t react to the GH5’s 10-bit codec and 4K 60p, a much smaller company is not going to have much impact at all. The only way is to keep pressuring the manufacturers and their representatives at every opportunity. 

I agree, but I also believe that the GH5/S caused a lot of discomfort to them already, the Pocket and the rest, are just the nails in the "coffin". Of course their large (huge) user bases (and lenses sold) give them some time to react, but the industry is pushing for innovation, and GH5 was the first - very important - modern release.

[Don Kotlos]

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

Interesting for sure, and H.265 main 10 profile. For most people that is more useful than raw and whatnot, if it wasn't for the Pocket, that would be the most amazing camera release this year, but after the pocket, everything changed(and can record prores LT for lesser projects)!

My guess it is the same sensor as GH5s and the pocketv2. Also if the spec sheet is correct the bitrate can go up to 1768Mbps on a CFAST card. It still might be just a ghost product and now that the pocketv2 is announced at that price it could remain as such. 

[jonpais]

One other factor to consider is the consolidation of the micro four thirds format, which has grown exponentially - and the Pocket can only serve to enhance its stature even more among indie filmmakers. And I would not be surprised to see PanLeica and Panasonic lens sales increase as a result. And there will always be those who don’t necessarily want to deal with 800Mbps files (or whatever - too lazy to look it up!), who require a flippy screen, IBIS, EVF, and so on. And as I’ve noted before, you’ve got to be an experienced colorist to work with RAW, from what I’ve heard. 

[anonim]

3 minutes ago, jonpais said:

One other factor to consider is the consolidation of the micro four thirds format, which has grown exponentially - and the Pocket can only serve to enhance its stature even more among indie filmmakers. And I would not be surprised to see PanLeica and Panasonic lens sales increase as a result. And there will always be those who don’t necessarily want to deal with 800Mbps files (or whatever - too lazy to look it up!), who require a flippy screen, IBIS, EVF, and so on. And as I’ve noted before, you’ve got to be an experienced colorist to work with RAW, from what I’ve heard. 

Yes, it seems that offensive voices of FF exclusiveness are silenced at least for some time

What would be expected from experienced colorists than that there must be something hard to work with?

I don't know how experienced I am - but for me is harder to work with compressed files... It is sure that only with raw files I can make day-for-night grading exchange, which is my favorite one!

[jonpais]

1 minute ago, anonim said:

Yes, it seems that offensive voices of FF exclusiveness are silenced at least for some time

What would be expected from experienced colorists than that there must be something hard to work with?

I don't know how experienced I am - but for me is harder to work with compressed files... It is sure that only with raw files I can make day-for-night grading exchange, which is my favorite one!

I have no idea - I think I read in Andrew’s review of the original Pocket that RAW requires more skill. I could be mistaken.

[Robert Collins]

16 minutes ago, anonim said:

Yes, it seems that offensive voices of FF exclusiveness are silenced at least for some time

What would be expected from experienced colorists than that there must be something hard to work with?

I don't know how experienced I am - but for me is harder to work with compressed files... It is sure that only with raw files I can make day-for-night grading exchange, which is my favorite one!

I agree. The 14 bit raw still files out of my A7riii, I can very nearly do anything with easily in post - so much so I hardly need to get it right in camera.

On the opposite end of the scale, my Mavic's 60mb/s 8bit footage needs to be pretty much spot on in camera and it is difficult to do much other than tweak in post. And I find 8 bit slog out of the Sony too difficult to handle in post without banding issues (hopefully more down to inexperience rather than incompetence.)

[Trek of Joy]

1 hour ago, jonpais said:

My feeling is if the big players didn’t react to the GH5’s 10-bit codec and 4K 60p, a much smaller company is not going to have much impact at all. The only way is to keep pressuring the manufacturers and their representatives at every opportunity. 

I think a better way to pressure them is where you spend your money. Canon and Sony are clearly going to keep a pretty wide gap between their hybrids and their respective cinema lines. How long have people been banging on Canon here and elsewhere about its video - and their market share hasn't moved an inch? Panasonic has found a niche with the GH5 and video shooters, but they're still small potatoes overall and photographers are still buying CaNikon in far greater numbers.

2 hours ago, Kisaha said:

I am wondering, what are the big Japanese corporates are thinking after these couple of days?

Probably not thinking about Blackmagic very much - if at all. The Pocket 4k (P4k) or the Zcam E2 is not going to sway anyone from buying a a7III or a Canon Rebel or anything with stills capabilities. I doubt it'll have any sort of an impact on Canon, Sony or Panasonic's respective cinema lines since they lack a viewfinder, ND's and any sort of competent AF (Canon) and so on. The previous $1000 Blackmagic cameras didn't put any pressure on the big players lower end models - none of them are offering raw and the GH5 is really the only one with 10-bit, these are just another budget option. I'm now looking at a P4k or the E2 as a video-only option instead of waiting for a used GH5s, but sales of both aren't going to push any of the big players to shift their philosophies.