NAB 2018

[Mokara]

13 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Ofcourse, and the H265 10bit is amazing, too, and not a lot of people REALLY need raw (" For most people that is more useful than raw").

Just the Pocket is more groundbreaking, and a lot cheaper (almost 40% cheaper), I believe they can lower their price if they want. They have done in their previous camera from time to time.

These basic cameras should not really cost much, essentially all they are is a sensor in a box, with a few interfaces and a really basic processor in them. Sensors are very mature tech at this point, so they should not cost much. Most of the cost in modern cameras likely comes from the processors (and associated development). Things like the BM cameras skirt all of that by offloading most of the processing to post, which allows them to use much more basic (and consequently cheaper) processors. So they come out with these really low cost models, but it is mistake to think that all cameras can be similarly priced. Most others on the market have much bigger investments in the processor and related electronic support (EVFs, screens, AF, etc), and consequently they will usually cost a lot more.

[Kisaha]

34 minutes ago, Mokara said:

These basic cameras should not really cost much, essentially all they are is a sensor in a box, with a few interfaces and a really basic processor in them. Sensors are very mature tech at this point, so they should not cost much. Most of the cost in modern cameras likely comes from the processors (and associated development). Things like the BM cameras skirt all of that by offloading most of the processing to post, which allows them to use much more basic (and consequently cheaper) processors. So they come out with these really low cost models, but it is mistake to think that all cameras can be similarly priced. Most others on the market have much bigger investments in the processor and related electronic support (EVFs, screens, AF, etc), and consequently they will usually cost a lot more.

you forget the golden boys champagne, marketing, management and everyone's pension. Most likely BM has none, or just some of all these.

[JordanWright]

Atomos Ninja V is decently priced: only £650

[IronFilm]

5 hours ago, jonpais said:

World's tiniest super 35mm cinema lenses? Would these interest anyone for $720 apiece? 

Rather have lenses with interchangeable mounts for DSLR and PL mount as well. 

But if going for mirrorless only mounts, it seems Veydra instead is the ones to beat. 

 

2 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Ofcourse, and the H265 10bit is amazing, too, and not a lot of people REALLY need raw (" For most people that is more useful than raw").

I could imagine many people preferring H265 for the much smaller 4K 10bit file sizes, while raw would be huge. 

Especially as today is now years after the NX1 release (which unfortunately was "too early") and H265 is becoming a bit more accepted in some workflows. 

 

[Kisaha]

15 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

I could imagine many people preferring H265 for the much smaller 4K 10bit file sizes, while raw would be huge. 

Especially as today is now years after the NX1 release (which unfortunately was "too early") and H265 is becoming a bit more accepted in some workflows. 

 

A bit?! Even Apple accepted H265, that means is the new standard! I consider H265 to be one of the advantages of NX cameras, and in this case, it is as well.

The H265 (and the similar VP9, or whatever it's called) are the most modern and efficient codec we have, it is not a small deal.

I said before, and it makes sense I think, that more people would be interested in efficient 10bit 4K, than feeling hard drives of raw. Raw is very specialized in our workflows, and in a lot of jobs, fast turnaround is more important than exceptional footage.

[KnightsFan]

6 hours ago, jonpais said:

World's tiniest super 35mm cinema lenses? Would these interest anyone for $720 apiece?

I will very interested if they do get around to making EF mount as he mentioned. Rokinon doesn't really have any competition right now for non-mirrorless cine lenses.

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

A bit?! Even Apple accepted H265, that means is the new standard! I consider H265 to be one of the advantages of NX cameras, and in this case, it is as well.

What I mean is although many NLEs (but not all) accept H.265, you still have most post houses who haven't dealt with it. So it is still early days. (but greatly improved since when the NX1 was released)

43 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

I will very interested if they do get around to making EF mount as he mentioned. Rokinon doesn't really have any competition right now for non-mirrorless cine lenses.

Well, not at sub $1K price points per lens.  I think in that regard Rokinons are quite unique. 

 

[Kisaha]

42 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

What I mean is although many NLEs (but not all) accept H.265, you still have most post houses who haven't dealt with it. So it is still early days. (but greatly improved since when the NX1 was released).

 

I know, I was joking. Yesterday I had this very conversation, they weren't that happy and didn't even heard about Samsung cameras, but transcoding is easier these days too, at least that was the conclusion of that conversation. Still not ideal.

[IronFilm]

Yup, exactly my point, the situation is MUCH better for H.265 than when the NX1 was released. But it still doesn't have widespread acceptance. 

However if you're doing all post in house then the Z Cam E2 having H.265 might be a massive feature for some folks over the GH5S/BMPCC4K. 

[KnightsFan]

58 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Well, not at sub $1K price points per lens.  I think in that regard Rokinons are quite unique. 

Exactly! Since you can now get a great camera for  around $1k, it's great to see more lenses in that price range for people who will have to bring their lenses between systems (such as me).

[MurtlandPhoto]

6 hours ago, Mokara said:

Unlikely. What pushed SD card development was SD card development, more specifically competition between manufacturers for the fastest cards. Camera manufacturers merely piggybacked on what was happening in the SD market. 

Let me clarify: I mean the developments in what camera manufacturers are doing with SD cards, not the cards themselves. The BMPCC was revolutionary in offering internal 10 bit Prores and 12 bit raw log footage direct to internal SD cards. This was something never thought possible before. That sparked demand for Panasonic to add log to the GH4 and finally internal 10 bit to the GH5. I'd bet that those developments would not have been pushed forward without BM proving it was possible to consumers.

[jonpais]

12 hours ago, Don Kotlos said:

I guess by "cinema" lens Skybeam just mean MF & declicked aperture with T stops? No mention of breathing or distortion or consistent size or weight balance or focus  and aperture location & teeth ...   

If that's the case I would go with the tested SLR Magic FE cine line, or the hyperprime line for m4/3 which are as small and far cheaper.

Then if someone cares about constant size, weight and balance then the Veydra Cine line or therehoused version of the FE SLR Magic that they just announced would be my choice. 

When Johnnie Behiri asked the gentleman from Skybeam what motivated him to produce such  tiny cine lenses, he pretty much said it was to offer a low cost alternative to budget filmmakers, which in itself is admirable - but it made me think of someone during a job interview saying they were just applying because of the salary. Of course, for many of us, that’s unfortunately the case, but I was hoping for a little something more - passion perhaps? Failing that, he could at least have enumerated the advantages of small cine primes: a lighter rig, better balance on small camera bodies, flying on a gimbal, anything at all! And when describing their look, he said they had a greenish yellow appearance - which is neither here nor there - but we would have liked to hear the reasons behind such a decision. Or is it that obvious? Lastly, incredibly small, optically excellent f/2 photography lenses covering an APS-C sensor do exist, but I think anything over 50mm is going to entail serious compromises in image quality. 

Edit: not so sure with cage, rails, follow focus, matte box and monitor that the rig would be much smaller at all, and the lenses’ small form factor would probably create more problems than they solve.

[jonpais]

At the opposite end of the spectrum is this representative for G Technology, who, as one YouTube commentor pointed out, may come across a bit like a used car salesman - but he could probably sell quills to a porcupine. ?

 

[Mokara]

17 hours ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

Let me clarify: I mean the developments in what camera manufacturers are doing with SD cards, not the cards themselves. The BMPCC was revolutionary in offering internal 10 bit Prores and 12 bit raw log footage direct to internal SD cards. This was something never thought possible before. That sparked demand for Panasonic to add log to the GH4 and finally internal 10 bit to the GH5. I'd bet that those developments would not have been pushed forward without BM proving it was possible to consumers.

Doubt it. Panasonic's design decision making process would have been driven by the cost of storage and how that would play out with their likely customer base. It would be in their interests as a company trying to break into the market to have the highest performance possible within the cost constraints imposed by the market so that they could out-compete the opposition without bankrupting the division. For something like the GH series that would be the availability and price of best internal SD cards that the average user of a $1-2k camera would be willing to pay for, and that is what would be used for their system. BM and their products had nothing to do with it.

[kye]

Have Canon done all their NAB2018 announcements yet?  I had in the back of my mind they might be announcing the XC20..

[IronFilm]

35 minutes ago, kye said:

Have Canon done all their NAB2018 announcements yet?  I had in the back of my mind they might be announcing the XC20..

 

https://www.newsshooter.com/2018/04/13/canon-intelligent-compact-camera-concept/

 

 

[jonpais]

The best cine lenses in the world?

 

[sanveer]

3 hours ago, jonpais said:

The best cine lenses in the world?

 

Saw the interview. The guy is really seems like a visionary. He is not in a hurry to make a few millions, and therefore the lenses won't cost an arm and a leg. 

[IronFilm]

2 hours ago, sanveer said:

and therefore the lenses won't cost an arm and a leg. 

Errrr... they're over  hundred grand per set?

[jonpais]

49 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Errrr... they're over  hundred grand per set?

Pricing to be announced, no? Any how, a set of the best cine lenses in the world for 100k is a bargain. Devin Graham recently paid 1/4 million for a set of Leicas. ?