NAB 2018

[jonpais]

14 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

I think a better way to pressure them is where you spend your money. Canon and Sony are clearly going to keep a pretty wide gap between their hybrids and their respective cinema lines. How long have people been banging on Canon here and elsewhere about its video - and their market share hasn't moved an inch? Panasonic has found a niche with the GH5 and video shooters, but they're still small potatoes overall and photographers are still buying CaNikon in far greater numbers.

Probably not thinking about Blackmagic very much - if at all. The Pocket 4k (P4k) or the Zcam E2 is not going to sway anyone from buying a a7III or a Canon Rebel or anything with stills capabilities. I doubt it'll have any sort of an impact on Canon, Sony or Panasonic's respective cinema lines since they lack a viewfinder, ND's and any sort of competent AF (Canon) and so on. The previous $1000 Blackmagic cameras didn't put any pressure on the big players lower end models - none of them are offering raw and the GH5 is really the only one with 10-bit, these are just another budget option. I'm now looking at a P4k or the E2 as a video-only option instead of waiting for a used GH5s, but sales of both aren't going to push any of the big players to shift their philosophies.

Out of likes for today. 

[MurtlandPhoto]

33 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

The previous $1000 Blackmagic cameras didn't put any pressure on the big players lower end models - none of them are offering raw and the GH5 is really the only one with 10-bit, these are just another budget option. I'm now looking at a P4k or the E2 as a video-only option instead of waiting for a used GH5s, but sales of both aren't going to push any of the big players to shift their philosophies.

I think the one impact Blackmagic has truly had on the prosumer market is the continued developments in SD cards. Had the Pocket not pushed what people saw as possible in SD cards, I'd bet that even Panasonic's EVA-1 would be using CFast. 

[Trek of Joy]

Another interesting announcement. SLR Magic full frame Cine lenses, priced like Veydras at $800 each.

https://***URL removed***/news/3659685879/slr-magic-announces-new-microprime-cine-lenses-for-sony-e-mount

"The new MicroPrime CINE lenses are designed for the Sony E-Mount, and there are five of them in all. The first four—a 25mm T1.5, 35mm T1.3, 50mm T1.2, and 75mm T1.5—will all be released in May, and a fifth 18mm T2.9 will be ready "by Q3 2018."

[IronFilm]

7 hours ago, Kisaha said:

I agree, but I also believe that the GH5/S caused a lot of discomfort to them already, the Pocket and the rest, are just the nails in the "coffin". Of course their large (huge) user bases (and lenses sold) give them some time to react, but the industry is pushing for innovation, and GH5 was the first - very important - modern release.

Why the GH5 in particular? I say Panasonic has been banging on their doors for a while now, such as the GH4 with the first ever internal 4K camera in that niche. 

6 hours ago, jonpais said:

One other factor to consider is the consolidation of the micro four thirds format, which has grown exponentially - and the Pocket can only serve to enhance its stature even more among indie filmmakers. And I would not be surprised to see PanLeica and Panasonic lens sales increase as a result. And there will always be those who don’t necessarily want to deal with 800Mbps files (or whatever - too lazy to look it up!), who require a flippy screen, IBIS, EVF, and so on. And as I’ve noted before, you’ve got to be an experienced colorist to work with RAW, from what I’ve heard. 

Full frame diehards will say MFT is going to go extinct in the future as FE gathers speed (and Canikon FF mirrorless arrive), but I'd say the evidence on the grounds says nothing is further from the truth. MFT is one of the most well supported standards there are! By a wide range of companies. 

 

http://ironfilm.co.nz/kinefinity-joins-micro-four-thirds/

 

Quote

I’m almost starting to lose track of how many camera manufacturers there are now with cameras in the pipeline with a micro four thirds mount! (Panasonic, Olympus, Kodak, JVC, Blackmagic Design, apertus°, fps1000 and now…. Kinefinity too! And that is just the camera manufacturers, many many more accessories/lenses/etc manufacturers too)

As I’ve often said, m4/3 is the most robust and best camera system, as it has so much more support behind it than any other mount.

And since then only more have started to use MFT, such as DJI. 

[Don Kotlos]

2 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

Another interesting announcement. SLR Magic full frame Cine lenses, priced like Veydras at $800 each.

https://***URL removed***/news/3659685879/slr-magic-announces-new-microprime-cine-lenses-for-sony-e-mount

"The new MicroPrime CINE lenses are designed for the Sony E-Mount, and there are five of them in all. The first four—a 25mm T1.5, 35mm T1.3, 50mm T1.2, and 75mm T1.5—will all be released in May, and a fifth 18mm T2.9 will be ready "by Q3 2018."

I wonder if they are just rehoused SLR Magic Cine lenses. In case that is true and there is no need for gears/constant lens size the cine line comes at less than half the price...

[kye]

9 hours ago, anonim said:

What would be expected from experienced colorists than that there must be something hard to work with?

I don't know how experienced I am - but for me is harder to work with compressed files... It is sure that only with raw files I can make day-for-night grading exchange, which is my favorite one!

My impression is that once you get a basic level of understanding about colour grading (I think I am around this point somewhere) then it's all about learning two things: how to create a desired look in anticipation or interpretation of what the client wants, and how to deal with problem footage.

I have experienced problems with the latter and really struggled to know what I was looking at, why it looked awful, and what to do about it.  If you hang on the colourist forums (eg, http://liftgammagain.com/ ) then you'll eventually run into a conversation where the pros talk about the problems of old when they had to match a bunch of out-of-date film stock, or low budget productions that saved money by shooting on the small bits of film stock that larger films would discard because they didn't want to start a take with so little film left on the roll.

My understanding of things now is that if you shoot your film on one or two half-decent cameras and shoot in log and don't make large exposure or white-balance mistakes then you probably won't run into the kinds of problems that they are best at dealing with.

In terms of if they like it, the general consensus was something like "it was awful and I'd never wish it on anyone but it paid the bills..."

[jonpais]

@kye My own impression from looking at the heavy handed graded stills from a clandestine NAB shot posted in the Pocket thread is that the skill level of forum members is all over the place. 

[jonpais]

10 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

I agree. The 14 bit raw still files out of my A7riii, I can very nearly do anything with easily in post - so much so I hardly need to get it right in camera.

On the opposite end of the scale, my Mavic's 60mb/s 8bit footage needs to be pretty much spot on in camera and it is difficult to do much other than tweak in post. And I find 8 bit slog out of the Sony too difficult to handle in post without banding issues (hopefully more down to inexperience rather than incompetence.)

The way I see it, there is a vast gulf between mere ability and mastery, 

[anonim]

3 hours ago, jonpais said:

The way I see it, there is a vast gulf between mere ability and mastery,

When footage is properly balanced, It is mostly all about investing time to polishing separate parts - excluding some area and playing with x-vs-x curve. You can tweak them whole day - or say: ok, that's enough. When you have to match totally different footage - then, it is really great task. But, when you have to match several hundred footage - it is why you need "professional"  colorist who can notice and make tweaking fast, flying over weaknesses of material.

It is also matter of appropriate precise instrument - for example Assimilate Scratch, which is still standard for many, still has no comparatively separate toolset for log footage in comparison with Resolve... not to say anything about Lumetri. Keep in mind that simple temperature button at Resolve is in disposal just from v12 or 12.5... which makes WB so easier.

[jonpais]

However you put it, @anonim , unlike the X-H1, footage from the Pocket requires grading. And from what I saw when @Neumann Films made log footage from the GH5 available, most here struggle with grading. 

[jonpais]

@DBounce So did you ever make it to Booth # C9432?

[DBounce]

1 hour ago, jonpais said:

@DBounce So did you ever make it to Booth # C9432?

Oh, yes and I will be sharing thoughts on their lenses soon.

[jonpais]

A big write-up, I hope!

[BTM_Pix]

Thought $7995 for the set of 3 looked very interesting indeed.

Until I saw that was just the deposit!

Still groundbreaking price of course in comparison to others though.

[jonpais]

World's tiniest super 35mm cinema lenses? Would these interest anyone for $720 apiece? 

 

Not much information here, but the only coverage we have so far of Atlas' presence at NAB this year, at least until @DBounce shares his experiences.

 

[Don Kotlos]

I guess by "cinema" lens Skybeam just mean MF & declicked aperture with T stops? No mention of breathing or distortion or consistent size or weight balance or focus  and aperture location & teeth ...   

If that's the case I would go with the tested SLR Magic FE cine line, or the hyperprime line for m4/3 which are as small and far cheaper.

Then if someone cares about constant size, weight and balance then the Veydra Cine line or therehoused version of the FE SLR Magic that they just announced would be my choice. 

[sanveer]

32 minutes ago, jonpais said:

World's tiniest super 35mm cinema lenses? Would these interest anyone for $720 apiece? 

Wow. Pretty interesting. I wish they had similar maximum aperture on all their lenses though. 

[Mokara]

On ‎2018‎-‎04‎-‎10 at 10:00 AM, MurtlandPhoto said:

I think the one impact Blackmagic has truly had on the prosumer market is the continued developments in SD cards. Had the Pocket not pushed what people saw as possible in SD cards, I'd bet that even Panasonic's EVA-1 would be using CFast. 

Unlikely. What pushed SD card development was SD card development, more specifically competition between manufacturers for the fastest cards. Camera manufacturers merely piggybacked on what was happening in the SD market. 

In analogy it is sort of saying that the arms race between women is driven by men, when men have very little to do with it even though ostensibly it is being done for their benefit. It is actually driven by competition between women and the impact of men's opinions count for very little in how all of that develops.

20 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Why the GH5 in particular? I say Panasonic has been banging on their doors for a while now, such as the GH4 with the first ever internal 4K camera in that niche. 

Full frame diehards will say MFT is going to go extinct in the future as FE gathers speed (and Canikon FF mirrorless arrive), but I'd say the evidence on the grounds says nothing is further from the truth. MFT is one of the most well supported standards there are! By a wide range of companies. 

 

http://ironfilm.co.nz/kinefinity-joins-micro-four-thirds/

 

And since then only more have started to use MFT, such as DJI. 

FF will have relatively little appeal for general use applications since usually you want decent dof for that to avoid any focusing issues. So smaller sensors such as 3/4 are much more useful for video overall IMO, they are not going to go away.

What is fine or even great for stills is not necessarily so for video due to the dynamic aspect of video. This is the main reason why the optimal hybrid has roughly an APS-C sensor. If you want a more stills orientated hybrid you will go larger in sensor size, while if you want a more video orientated hybrid you will go smaller.

16 hours ago, jonpais said:

The way I see it, there is a vast gulf between mere ability and mastery, 

No, mastery looks more like this:

http://bikeglam.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/MotoGP-Racing-Sport1.jpg

[Mokara]

On ‎2018‎-‎04‎-‎10 at 8:11 AM, Don Kotlos said:

My guess it is the same sensor as GH5s and the pocketv2. Also if the spec sheet is correct the bitrate can go up to 1768Mbps on a CFAST card. It still might be just a ghost product and now that the pocketv2 is announced at that price it could remain as such. 

It has a Sony sensor.

On ‎2018‎-‎04‎-‎10 at 6:36 AM, Kisaha said:

Interesting for sure, and H.265 main 10 profile. For most people that is more useful than raw and whatnot, if it wasn't for the Pocket, that would be the most amazing camera release this year, but after the pocket, everything changed(and can record prores LT for lesser projects)!

I am wondering, what are the big Japanese corporates are thinking after these couple of days?

Well, it can shoot 4K at 120 fps, some might find that useful.

Looks like it would be relatively simple to fit on a drone as well. Square box.

[Kisaha]

21 minutes ago, Mokara said:

Well, it can shoot 4K at 120 fps, some might find that useful.

Looks like it would be relatively simple to fit on a drone as well. Square box.

Ofcourse, and the H265 10bit is amazing, too, and not a lot of people REALLY need raw (" For most people that is more useful than raw").

Just the Pocket is more groundbreaking, and a lot cheaper (almost 40% cheaper), I believe they can lower their price if they want. They have done in their previous camera from time to time.