Has Panasonic Killed Off Cinema Lenses?

[kye]

5 hours ago, jonpais said:

I don’t know this guy, but for some reason, he’s offended that I’m retired and living in Vietnam. He ridicules my work and contributions behind a veil of anonymity. He belittles a dozen or more other forum members for adding useful comments to the subject. He has the audacity to instruct the founder of the website how to run his business. And rather than sharing information, he has spent most of his time since joining EOSHD attacking other members, either for their age, their level of expertise, or because of their interest in still photography. 

I tend to see people as either contributing to a conversation (be it information, questioning, humour, etc) or not contributing (either time-wasting, or being negative, driving agendas, etc).

The best response to those not contributing is no response, I think there was actually some science done on this but I'm not 100% sure, however the problem is that we are always so tempted to reply that the urge often gets the best of us.  Another wonderful symptom of the human condition!

The still you posted above looks great Jon, is this part of a short or feature, or camera test of some kind?  I particularly liked the combination of saturated blues and desaturated browns, as well as the key lighting (Rembrandt lighting IIRC?).

[jonpais]

Thanks, @kye .It’s part of a sort of mini-doc I’ve been working on for a while now. 

[webrunner5]

2 hours ago, jonpais said:

Thanks, @kye .It’s part of a sort of mini-doc I’ve been working on for a while now. 

Yeah it does look about the best you have done colorist wise with the GH5.

[Django]

I see this as a useful feature for fly by wire lens systems where manual focus pulling can be tricky. but to reply the thread title, the answer is no!

[jonpais]

@Django That’s how I see it too. 

[Django]

As others have said it's going to hit it's limit in circumstances where the subject is moving and you can't predict the landing point but it's definitely an intersting feature, especially for product, landscape/architecture or static model shots etc.. i wish fuji had something like that. if i had to be picky though i'd say i did find in the example you posted the transition to be a little too perfect/electronic looking. maybe slower settings would look more natural?

[jonpais]

@Django In the example I posted, the transition does appear quite jolting. I had a chance to shoot some more this afternoon and to play with some slower speeds. I also set two actual focus points this time, and the results were smooth and natural looking. I’ll see if I can’t post one or two examples tomorrow. I do think it would be cool for interior shots and all the situations you describe. 

[mercer]

Can objects in the frame change while you’re setting your points?

If so, then I can see how this could be useful for narratives. Most actors and actresses can hit their marks.

[jonpais]

8 minutes ago, mercer said:

Can objects in the frame change while you’re setting your points?

If so, then I can see how this could be useful for narratives. Most actors and actresses can hit their marks.

I really recommend watching Bernard Bertrand’s video from 5’27”. 

 

[Django]

 

11 minutes ago, mercer said:

If so, then I can see how this could be useful for narratives. Most actors and actresses can hit their marks.

 

Most can.. but some definitely have trouble believe me lol.. also depends on direction style. our main narrative director loves doing improv takes and changing camera angles on the fly. can drive DOP/focus puller crazy at times but that's what it sometimes takes and why manual is still invaluable in certain situations. Of course that all means a production budget though.

That being said Canon's dual pixel is amazing in it's accuracy and smoothness. It really looks natural and I've pulled off some rack focus shots that would have been tough without a focus puller. It can't do the multiple point thing though which is interesting, assuming it works good enough.

AF in video is a big thing for me now and again especially on focus by wire systems. One of the main reasons i'm hesitant to go back to Fuji to be honest.

[jonpais]

If only my GH5 had reliable continuous autofocus...

The nice thing about this feature is that you will never get any pulsing or hunting that sometimes occurs with AF-C on even some of the best systems. Once it locks on, it stays put. I’ve seen this with both Sony and Fuji. And let’s not get started with Panasonic!

Bernard Bertrand talks about the razor sharp image... If you’re pulling focus, I think it’s more dramatic the wider you can open the iris... So it definitely helps not only to have a relatively fast lens, but also one that is pretty crisp wide open. 

Because the focus transition feature requires manually focusing to set the A and B points, it can be very frustrating in situations where there are no contrasty lines or specular highlights when using the camera’s LCD, even with focus assist. I usually focus on my model’s pupils, but when shooting in a dark alleyway, it can still be pretty challenging. 

[Kisaha]

15 minutes ago, Django said:

 

Most can.. but some definitely have trouble believe me lol.. also depends on direction style. our main narrative director loves doing improv takes and changing camera angles on the fly. can drive DOP/focus puller crazy at times but that's what it sometimes takes and why manual is still invaluable in certain situations. Of course that all means a production budget though.

That being said Canon's dual pixel is amazing in it's accuracy and smoothness. It really looks natural and I've pulled off some rack focus shots that would have been tough without a focus puller. It can't do the multiple point thing though which is interesting, assuming it works good enough.

AF in video is a big thing for me now and again especially on focus by wire systems. One of the main reasons i'm hesitant to go back to Fuji to be honest.

As I said, canon TOUCH DPAF is the thing and you change focus for everything and forever (almost!). The one and only for pro use, and still I prefer manual for critical stuff.

It is that good, that I still waiting for my C100mkIII!

I did a couple of jobs as focus puller recently and the actors hitting their marks was 1 out of 10, or never! Seriously dissapointing, and one day we were filming the ending on the Acropolis, so we had only one day to shot all the sequence, and only magic hour for the last scene so no time to rehearse or measure, then you have only your experience and the feel of your lenses and focus equipment.

In the NX hack/mod there is an app that you can set points and stuff. If anyone has used it can comment, but I believe it works similar to the Pana one

 

[jonpais]

@Kisaha That’s awesome! Very similar to Panasonic’s implementation, but you can use the camera’s AF to set the points. With Panasonic, you’ve got to manually focus each of the positions.

[BTM_Pix]

Hypothetically speaking, would something that did the following be of any interest to Panasonic (both GH5 and non-GH5) owners ?

• 8 focus points (pulled from current lens position so can be either using touch AF or manual etc)
• 4 auto transition speeds between points
• Manual transition between points
• Manual focus adjustment

All driven from dedicated hardware switches.

And wirelessly.

From a handheld device.

Hypothetically speaking obviously......

[mercer]

1 hour ago, Django said:

 

Most can.. but some definitely have trouble believe me lol.. also depends on direction style. our main narrative director loves doing improv takes and changing camera angles on the fly. can drive DOP/focus puller crazy at times but that's what it sometimes takes and why manual is still invaluable in certain situations. Of course that all means a production budget though.

That being said Canon's dual pixel is amazing in it's accuracy and smoothness. It really looks natural and I've pulled off some rack focus shots that would have been tough without a focus puller. It can't do the multiple point thing though which is interesting, assuming it works good enough.

AF in video is a big thing for me now and again especially on focus by wire systems. One of the main reasons i'm hesitant to go back to Fuji to be honest.

Good point about direction style. Being a writer first, then director, then operator... improv is a dirty word... lol.

Yeah, Jon maybe should have titled this thread... Has Canon Killed off Cinema Lenses... but since he shoots with a Panasonic, I get it... and this feature in the GH5 is pretty nifty.

Did you get another C100 Mark 1or did you go with the Mark II?

Being a run and gun shooter, DPAF is the one feature I look forward to using at some point in the future. My biggest wish is that ML figures out the 5D4... Raw and DPAF would be a game changer for me. I am getting pretty good with tracking focus manually but it does usually require a few takes to nail it.

[Django]

7 minutes ago, mercer said:

Good point about direction style. Being a writer first, then director, then operator... improv is a dirty word... lol.

Yeah, Jon maybe should have titled this thread... Has Canon Killed off Cinema Lenses... but since he shoots with a Panasonic, I get it... and this feature in the GH5 is pretty nifty.

Did you get another C100 Mark 1or did you go with the Mark II?

Being a run and gun shooter, DPAF is the one feature I look forward to using at some point in the future. My biggest wish is that ML figures out the 5D4... Raw and DPAF would be a game changer for me. I am getting pretty good with tracking focus manually but it does usually require a few takes to nail it.

Yeah we do a lot of comedy work so improv is kind of second nature..

I went with the Mark 1.. again lol. I wasn't even in the market tbh but i fell upon a deal i simply couldn't refuse (mint with DPAF & a Ninja Star for 1500).

Dual pixel has gone long ways though since C100 and indeed it's quite remarkable on 5D4/C200 with object tracking and touch functionality etc.

I wouldn't hold my breath for ML to crack 5D4 any time soon even though last time i checked it was stated as being ported..

Hopefully their upcoming FF mirrorless will support ProRes Raw via HDMI.. wishful thinking i know! GH5 is a more likely candidate

[anti12]

1 hour ago, jonpais said:

Because the focus transition feature requires manually focusing to set the A and B points, it can be very frustrating in situations

Of course you can use the push autofocus button or touchscreen to set focus for A and B points when in manual focus mode.

[jonpais]

15 minutes ago, anti12 said:

Of course you can use the push autofocus button or touchscreen to set focus for A and B points when in manual focus mode.

I stand corrected. Thanks!

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

Hypothetically speaking, would something that did the following be of any interest to Panasonic (both GH5 and non-GH5) owners ?

• 8 focus points (pulled from current lens position so can be either using touch AF or manual etc)
• 4 auto transition speeds between points
• Manual transition between points
• Manual focus adjustment

All driven from dedicated hardware switches.

And wirelessly.

From a handheld device.

Hypothetically speaking obviously......

Just thinking out loud, right? hehe

[mercer]

23 minutes ago, Django said:

Yeah we do a lot of comedy work so improv is kind of second nature..

I went with the Mark 1.. again lol. I wasn't even in the market tbh but i fell upon a deal i simply couldn't refuse (mint with DPAF & a Ninja Star for 1500).

Dual pixel has gone long ways though since C100 and indeed it's quite remarkable on 5D4/C200 with object tracking and touch functionality etc.

I wouldn't hold my breath for ML to crack 5D4 any time soon even though last time i checked it was stated as being ported..

Hopefully their upcoming FF mirrorless will support ProRes Raw via HDMI.. wishful thinking i know! GH5 is a more likely candidate

That’s an amazing deal... I would have pounced on that as well. The C100 I or II are such workhorses, I imagine they pay for themselves rather quickly... much like the GH5, I’d assume.

Yeah, I doubt they will either. But I don’t really need it now, 1080p Raw on the 5D3 is more than enough for my needs right now.

Sorry to the OP for the OT.

[BTM_Pix]

11 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Just thinking out loud, right? hehe

I might do a teaser pic of half of it peeping out of the darkness at an obscure angle.

Seems all the rage.