Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[Davide Roveri]

I know it's probably not very relevant as price might change again many times before the actual shipping date but CVP lowered the price from 1029£ to 975£ (1235£ and 1170£ respectively inclusive of VAT). Is not much but is a slightly better exchange rate from $1295 :-) 

In other news we are above 500 preorders at the moment and this is just from one retailer in one country, I really hope they expected this kind of interests and will be able to ramp up production accordingly!

[bwhitz]

13 minutes ago, jonpais said:

But greater minds than yours don’t think the GH5/GH5s image is garbage: Paul Leeming, Matthew Scott, Hugh Brownstone, Andrew Reid, Luke Neumann, and Filippo Chiesa, to name just a few. 

But how are you so sure they're "greater minds" than I? I've worked on higher profile projects than most of these guys...

But even if I'm just some weirdo on the internet... that's not the point of the discussion.

[jonpais]

33 minutes ago, bwhitz said:

But how are you so sure they're "greater minds" than I? I've worked on higher profile projects than most of these guys...

No showreel, zero credibility. 

Here he is again, dismissing the X-H1 as  junk.

 

[RWR]

"I reckon the BMPCC4K could be the beginning of the end. "..that never arrives.

[Turboguard]

1 minute ago, bwhitz said:

But how are you so sure they're "greater minds" than I? I've worked on higher profile projects than most of these guys...

I mean, I know Andrew from here and Luke from his YouTube (also he’s being nurtured by pana, don’t think he’d come out at say anything bad as long as he has the relationship he has with them). Who are these other people, vloggers?! Also Jonpais, now you’re personally attacking and that is offensive. I work with some pretty well know clients too, and I don’t think we’d ever consider using the GH5, we did use the a7s for some underwater shots for last gig but that was because we didn’t wanna case up the Alexa nor Digital Bolex. Anyway, why are we still talking about this?

[JordanWright]

11 minutes ago, Davide Roveri said:

I know it's probably not very relevant as price might change again many times before the actual shipping date but CVP lowered the price from 1029£ to 975£ (1235£ and 1170£ respectively inclusive of VAT). Is not much but is a slightly better exchange rate from $1295 :-) 

Yeah I got this pleasant suprise from CVP also!

[bwhitz]

20 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Link to your showreel. 

Not relevant. Plus, I try to keep personal stuff separate from any professional stuff... that's just the internet these days. Anyways... this discussion is not subject to some "appeal to authority" fallacy. The GH5 has really bad image processing (that doesn't turn off) that makes the image relatively un-usable for high-end stuff. You can CLEARLY see it disable when shooting in 6k anamorphic mode... and subsequently make a great image in the league of higher-end cameras. But the GH5 in normal mode doesn't even look like a 2k image when put next to something like the EVA1. These things exist outside of who's-who opinions of the internet.

[RWR]

Wait..I thought we were only measuring merits of the camera

[Emanuel]

52 minutes ago, bwhitz said:

lol... it's offensive? To who? The camera? Come on... The GH5 has an image that looks like plastic. When you compare it to the detail you get with Red or even Alexa at 2k... then yes, it's garbage. And I'm a BIG fan of Panasonic actually. That's why I'm being so hard on the GH5. I know what they're capable of... the EVA1 image is fantastic. The Varicam image is also one of my favorites of the major cameras. The GH5 ACTUALLY resolves a great image... in the 6K abamorphic mode... where it looks like it disables the garbage Sharpness and NR settings. So all Panasonic has to do is write ONE STINKING LINE OF CODE to disable the horrible, horrible, image-processing. This again, has nothing to deal with one's personal work. It literally doesn't factor into the discussion about camera images.

19 minutes ago, bwhitz said:

Not relevant. Plus, I try to keep personal stuff separate from any professional stuff... that's just the internet these days. Anyways... this discussion is not subject to some "appeal to authority" fallacy. The GH5 has really bad image processing (that doesn't turn off) that makes the image relatively un-usable for high-end stuff. You can CLEARLY see it disable when shooting in 6k anamorphic mode... and subsequently make a great image in the league of higher-end cameras. But the GH5 in normal mode doesn't even look like a 2k image when put next to something like the EVA1. These things exist outside of who's-who opinions of the internet.

You see? You've just found some workaround going along the 6K anamorphic mode as they call it, so at last you second so in a way or another... A bit contradictory, what does it seem? ;-)

46 minutes ago, jonpais said:

But greater minds than yours don’t think the GH5/GH5s image is garbage: Paul Leeming, Matthew Scott, Hugh Brownstone, Bernard Bertrand, Andrew Reid, Luke Neumann, and Filippo Chiesa, to name just a few. 

You've just forgotten to add yours and mine :-D

[bwhitz]

17 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

You see? You've just found some workaround going along the 6K anamorphic mode as they call it, so at last you second so in a way or another... A bit contradictory, what does it seem? ;-)

Yea, but the anamorphic mode is not usable for most projects. Lenses can be unwieldy... defeating the purpose of the GH5's and M4/3 size... putting the GH5 on a gimbal or steady cam is tough with most anamorphic setups. Plus, the look is great, but not always what you want for every project. The larger point is... WHY CAN'T PANASONIC WRITE TWO LINES OF CODE TO TURN THE GARBAGE NOISE REDUCTION AND SHARPENING OFF!!! agggHHHHH!!!

[Emanuel]

Point taken. I agree only in a part. You can do whatever your goals may reach with such device. Just know the tool and your craft (E :-)

[markr041]

46 minutes ago, jonpais said:

But greater minds than yours don’t think the GH5/GH5s image is garbage: Paul Leeming, Matthew Scott, Hugh Brownstone, Bernard Bertrand, Andrew Reid, Luke Neumann, and Filippo Chiesa, to name just a few. 

I do not like hyperbolic language ("garbage", etc.) and I think that subjective opinions on how videos look ("looks plasticy") do not add much value (but are interesting). However,  I think that worse are personal comparisons that imply that some poster's opinions are more worthy than others'. While I think that is of course true, the weights placed are purely subjective and the criteria not obvious. The best videographer or DP might be a total ignoramus about anything but the camera he or she uses, or a paid shill for some manufacturer, or a poor communicator, or be logic-challenged, or see everything in black and white (not literally!). And an armchair enthusiast who never shot a video might know something others do not and have exquisite tastes regarding video art. Or someone may know more about optics, sensors, or production techniques without ever even seeing a video. Most respected critics of art (including film) do not paint or shoot. "Greater minds" is not conducive to free discussion - should there be prerequisites for posting (submit your videos, or take a test - which camera has the best low-light performance? why is 8 bit better than 10 bit? write down all the perks you have ever received from manufacturers )?

Yours truly, a lesser mind.

[TwoScoops]

29 minutes ago, bwhitz said:

Yea, but the anamorphic mode is not usable for most projects. Lenses can be unwieldy... defeating the purpose of the GH5's and M4/3 size... putting the GH5 on a gimbal or steady cam is tough with most anamorphic setups. Plus, the look is great, but not always what you want for every project. The larger point is... WHY CAN'T PANASONIC WRITE TWO LINES OF CODE TO TURN THE GARBAGE NOISE REDUCTION AND SHARPENING OFF!!! agggHHHHH!!!

 

You could just shoot in the 4:3 6K anamorphic then crop to widescreen like when super 35 crop on film is used tho right? Does that give similar res to the 4K mode? (haven't used a GH5 yet) Maybe they just feel people who're worried about the NR/sharpening will do this. 

[sanveer]

3 hours ago, Márcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

For size comparisons, it is in Camerasize already.

http://camerasize.com/compare/#782,727

Wow. I didn't realise how large the BMPCC 4k is. Also, camera size comparison was quick.

7 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I'd rather have an internal eND than have 4K 60fps

Actually, apart from Sony, I don't see anyone else using an eND. Maybe they don't have the tech. Atleast yet. And maybe it is too expensive to be borrowed from Sony. 

[BTM_Pix]

16 minutes ago, sanveer said:

Actually, apart from Sony, I don't see anyone else using an eND. Maybe they don't have the tech. Atleast yet. And maybe it is too expensive to be borrowed from Sony. 

Kinefinity's non-focal reducer EF mount has electronic ND.

I think the Aputure MFT to EF follow focus (again the non-focal reducer version) has it too?

[jonpais]

12 hours ago, sanveer said:

They will Obviously avoid being seen using Panny lenses. After using the Same sensor as Panny and probably doing a better job with it, albeit at Half the Price.  

Here's an interview with Bob Caniglia of Blackmagic holding the Pocket 4K and Panasonic 12-35mm f/2.8.

 

[sanveer]

4 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Kinefinity's non-focal reducer EF mount has electronic ND.

I think the Aputure MFT to EF follow focus (again the non-focal reducer version) has it too?

Ok, I wasn't aware. I guess they're using licensed versiona or have made their own versions. The tech has been around for over a decade I guess. Even the maybach uses a version where clear windows suddenly becone tinted. I guess it would depend on the amount of curreent being passed to rearrange the electrons (I hope I am recollecting things correctly).

I won't be surprised if chinese companies start making these for like 1/10th the price and everyone gets one within the next one year. 

[Santiago de la Rosa]

The more I look that video, the pocket 4K it´s more a BMCC mini, I really like that big screen.

[deezid]

2 hours ago, bwhitz said:

lol... it's offensive? To who? The camera? Come on... The GH5 has an image that looks like plastic. When you compare it to the detail you get with Red or even Alexa at 2k... then yes, it's garbage. And I'm a BIG fan of Panasonic actually. That's why I'm being so hard on the GH5. I know what they're capable of... the EVA1 image is fantastic. The Varicam image is also one of my favorites of the major cameras. The GH5 ACTUALLY resolves a great image... in the 6K abamorphic mode... where it looks like it disables the garbage Sharpness and NR settings. So all Panasonic has to do is write ONE STINKING LINE OF CODE to disable the horrible, horrible, image-processing. This again, has nothing to deal with one's personal work. It literally doesn't factor into the discussion about camera images.

I completely agree.
But guess what, I was reaching out to Panasonic ambassadors and developers in the past about this issue. They we're either uninformed and said there is no additional sharpening and NR, though the evidence thanks to strong halos in high contrast areas, harshness and sometimes even ghosting is there - or they were laughing at me "everyone loves how our images look"... 

 

Btw. the 6K mode suffers from artifacts thanks to the rather weak H265 implementation, but yh, basically no sharpening artifacts but banding. lol

[BTM_Pix]

18 minutes ago, sanveer said:

 Even the maybach uses a version where clear windows suddenly becone tinted.

A £180K ND filter on wheels.

I like your thinking