Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[Anaconda_]

@Don Kotlos & @jonpais

I've heard it's switchable. There's three buttons just behind the record button on the top - not the custom ones near the power switch - ISO, Shutter, WB, and as far as I can tell, they change the function of the dial/wheel. The aperture button is on the back where your thumb would rest, under the focus button. I assume that will also change the function of the wheel.

You'll also be able to change all of those on the touchscreen if that's your thing (personally, I like buttons and dials)

More Q&A. @RWR there's more info on timecode.

[Snowfun]

I hope BM implement a way of preventing accidental setting changes with that dial as efficiently and effectively as the method of changing them when required...

[Savannah Miller]

The buttons on the top (Iso, WB, S) bring up the appropriate page on the menu to change said settings.  You basically press it once, menu pops up, and then you can change the settings with the dial.  It's different from a dslr where often you hold down the button if you want to change a setting.

[Anaconda_]

25 minutes ago, Snowfun said:

I hope BM implement a way of preventing accidental setting changes with that dial as efficiently and effectively as the method of changing them when required...

I've had a few cameras with these types of dial and it's just never been a problem. If there's something that can spin the dial to change settings, then that something is just too close to the camera. If you're worried your finger will spin it, don't put your finger on it once it's set. 

I think the more worrying thing is the touch screen sliders etc, they're much easier to accidentally swipe without noticing. The scroll wheel thingy more than likely has some kind of tactile feedback, so you'll know if you've changed something. That's why as I said before, I prefer buttons and dials over touchscreens.

Edit: @Savannah Miller thanks, that sounds like it get's locked down once you've set your settings.

[Savannah Miller]

8 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

I've had a few cameras with these types of dial and it's just never been a problem. If there's something that can spin the dial to change settings, then that something is just too close to the camera. If you're worried your finger will spin it, don't put your finger on it once it's set. 

I think the more worrying thing is the touch screen sliders etc, they're much easier to accidentally swipe without noticing. The scroll wheel thingy more than likely has some kind of tactile feedback, so you'll know if you've changed something. That's why as I said before, I prefer buttons and dials over touchscreens.

Edit: @Savannah Miller thanks, that sounds like it get's locked down once you've set your settings.

By default it changes the aperture, so no.

[Anaconda_]

1 minute ago, Savannah Miller said:

By default it changes the aperture, so no.

Oh well, refer to my 1st point then haha. 

If something can spin the dial while filming, move that something away. That dial placement is pretty standard on a lot of camera bodies, so I'm sure many users will be used to not fiddling with it once its set.

[anonim]

16 hours ago, jonpais said:

Actually, IBIS is excellent for use with cinema lenses like the Veydras; and IBIS helps even when flying on a gimbal. 

I'd say even more - without possibility to use gimbal for faster running movements, I have been forced to run beside and along with my runner/shooted-heroine just with GH5 and 10mm manual focus lens - and app. 80% or more of (pretty long!) shots turn out completely usable with slight addition of new Resolve 15 stabilization engine (or even without it for the shorter shots) - even in 24p recording. Unfortunately, position of the sun prevent me to get usable circle-around shots because of me-casting-shadow to the subject - but these shots also were even more usable non-shaking quality wise.

Sometimes I really can't understand how anybody could minimize fantastic usability and indispensable value of good IBIS calling it non-pro... Except for totally controled conditions, which are more rare than not in my case, and probably in the case of the most users of cameras of this price range... So it was one of the examples - with gimbal I'd been too clumsy for faster run, so only other solution besides combination of UWlens+Ibis might be - to be driven in some car or so...

[jonpais]

5 minutes ago, anonim said:

I'd say even more - without possibility to use gimbal for faster running movements, I have been forced to run beside and along with my runner/shooted-heroine just with GH5 and 10mm manual focus lens - and app. 80% or more of (pretty long!) shots turn out completely usable with slight addition of new Resolve 15 stabilization engine (or even without it for the shorter shots). Unfortunately, position of the sun prevent me to get usable circle-around shots because of me-casting-shadow to the subject - but these shots also were even more usable non-shaking quality wise.

Sometimes I really can't understand how anybody could minimize fantastic usability and indispensable value of good IBIS calling it non-pro... Except for totally controled conditions, which are more rare than not in my case, and probably in the case of the most users of cameras of this price range... So it was one of the examples - with gimbal I'd been too clumsy for faster run, so only other solution besides combination of UWlens+Ibis might be - to be driven in some car or so...

This guy can do it without IBIS, but he’s been at it a while now. 

https://youtu.be/l_r4k8TbGIQ

 

[anonim]

Yes, being pretty athletic (sorry to mention) I could run equally fast also with gimbal - but my problem is that, if I fall down on the slippery grass, I couldn't easy provide new gimbal as this guy - who is, btw, brilliant instructor and I gladly watch his lessons - so price for the risk is too high for me

20 minutes ago, jonpais said:

This guy can do it without IBIS, but he’s been at it a while now. 

https://youtu.be/l_r4k8TbGIQ

 

 

17 hours ago, jonpais said:

Could be. Happens occasionally. But nowhere near as bad as shaky handheld.

I forgot to mention - I had to run with Atomos Flame on top of the cage... So sometimes I had to recalling you and regret why my fate is always so hard - instead of shooting lovely "phony" Huang, I had to run for triathlon champion Vida...

[webrunner5]

8 hours ago, jonpais said:

TLDR; are there physical dials for aperture and shutter speed/angle?

From BM site.

"You get controls for recording start/stop, still photos, ISO, shutter, aperture, white balance, function buttons, power on/off and more."

If you go down a little bit to pictures of the body the picture on the right side shows a Aperture Button.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera

Plus there is the 3 buttons on the top that you can assign to anything I guess. But I would imagine you have to use the scroll wheel out front to change values.

I know there is a slider thingy at the bottom of the 5" display to change Apertures. Probably does LCD brightness, etc. also.

 

[Stefan Antonescu]

Anaconda, you just answered a bunch of important questions. Thanks !

[Cliff Totten]

This is the most facinating camera I have ever seen in my life. Not just because of its technical ability or its ridiculously low price. Its the sheer marketing balls that BlackMagic has to challange Panasonic and Sony in such a cut-throat way. (Canon is so far out of this discussion that we cant even include them)

Here is the shocking part. If Sony didnt develop such an incredably advanced STARVIS IMX294 sensor, (or IMX272 ) would we be this excited for this camera? If this camera used a common CMOSIS or Fairchild MFT sensor that topped out at 800 ISO.....would all of these other great features be wasted?

Is the image sensor of this camera driving this entire show?

Has Sony single-handedly enabled or gifted the "small"  Micro 4/3 format with the power to actually compete with large sensor cameras?...(something M4/3 could never do in the past?)

Sony Semi Conductor company seems to really have turned the screws on Sony Imaging Company. Sony Imaging is forced to compete against new cameras that are using Sony's best core technology. They are competing against their own patents!

This is REALLY a massive industry shift...a true earthquake. We are going to see the shockwaves from this for years and years to come.

Once tbe genie is out, its VERY hard to push him back into his bottle!

 

[jonpais]

I don’t see BMD competing in this space with Sony at all. Panasonic, for sure. Sony’s got brilliant full frame cameras with fast AF-C, insane low light ability and most of all, it’s a pure hybrid camera that also happens to shoot magnificent stills. 

[Savannah Miller]

Well outside of A7SII, sony cameras are not extremely good in lowlight.  At least they aren't better than other brands like Kinefinity, Canon Cinema Series, etc.  I feel like their internal noise reduction hides how noisy their cameras really are.

Although we have no info yet, the Kinefinity Mavo and Mavo LF are way more impressive for me.  Those cameras are TINY.  I have no idea how they cram the features that they do into such a small body.  Blackmagic has issues doing large sensor 4K and higher frame rates in a small body yet Kinefinity seems to have no issues. Their 6K full frame camera is exactly the same size and weight as the Terra 4K model with a huge sensor and double the processing speed.

[jonpais]

4 minutes ago, Savannah Miller said:

Well outside of A7SII, sony cameras are not extremely good in lowlight.  At least they aren't better than other brands like Kinefinity, Canon Cinema Series, etc.  I feel like their internal noise reduction hides how noisy their cameras really are.

Although we have no info yet, the Kinefinity Mavo and Mavo LF are way more impressive for me.  Those cameras are TINY.  I have no idea how they cram the features that they do into such a small body.  Blackmagic has issues doing large sensor 4K and higher frame rates in a small body yet Kinefinity seems to have no issues. Their 6K full frame camera is exactly the same size and weight as the Terra 4K model with a huge sensor and double the processing speed.

I think you might be mistaken there. The a7 III is outstanding in low light. I might also add that comparing cinema cameras to hybrids is comparing apples to oranges.

[cantsin]

12 minutes ago, Cliff Totten said:

Here is the shocking part. If Sony didnt develop such an incredably advanced STARVIS IMX294 sensor, (or IMX272 ) would we be this excited for this camera? If this camera used a common CMOSIS or Fairchild MFT sensor that topped out at 800 ISO.....would all of these other great features be wasted?

Is the image sensor of this camera driving this entire show?

Has Sony single-handedly enabled or gifted the "small"  Micro 4/3 format with the power to actually compete with large sensor cameras?...(something M4/3 could never do in the past?)

The Sony IMX294 is no better, but actually worse than the APS-C sensors Sony built into the a6300/6500 and the full frame sensors used in the A7 series. The a6300/6500 sensor has higher resolution, is better in low light and even has triple native ISO (as some people have found out by analyzing its RAW stills). If you use dpreview's camera comparison tool, then the RAW stills of the GH5s are clearly behind the RAW stills of the a6300/6500, although those cameras are a couple of years older.

The only difference Blackmagic really makes is that its cameras record the sensor signal in RAW, which can make a huge difference for the quality of the final video image if you use highest-quality debayering, denoising and color correction in post (as opposed to a quick-and-dirty, low-quality, high-compression pipeline in-camera).

[webrunner5]

17 minutes ago, jonpais said:

I don’t see BMD competing in this space with Sony at all. Panasonic, for sure. Sony’s got brilliant full frame cameras with fast AF-C, insane low light ability and most of all, it’s a pure hybrid camera that also happens to shoot magnificent stills. 

Yeah true, but they are not Cine cameras like this new BM is. You should damn near be able to make a big time, full blown movie with this new BM 4K. Not so much with a Sony A7 mk III.

[jonpais]

Just now, webrunner5 said:

Yeah true, but they are not Cine cameras like this new BM is.

If you read what I wrote, that is precisely what I just said. 

[webrunner5]

25 minutes ago, Savannah Miller said:

Although we have no info yet, the Kinefinity Mavo and Mavo LF are way more impressive for me.  Those cameras are TINY.  I have no idea how they cram the features that they do into such a small body.  Blackmagic has issues doing large sensor 4K and higher frame rates in a small body yet Kinefinity seems to have no issues. Their 6K full frame camera is exactly the same size and weight as the Terra 4K model with a huge sensor and double the processing speed.

True, but can you afford to buy the Kinefinity Mavo and Mavo LF,  and everything else you need to make it happen?? That is the issue. I think most can afford the new 4K BMPCC. Hell I would rather have a Arri Alexa LF XS if money is no object.  And no it is not small, and there is a reason for it. It takes like 3 to 4 people to shoot a big time Cine camera comfortably, would be a bit hard to get that many peoples hands on a Kinefinity Mavo and Mavo LF at one time. Horses for Courses. Red cameras in reality are too damn small also. But they, like the Kinefinity are more portable.

13 minutes ago, jonpais said:

If you read what I wrote, that is precisely what I just said. 

By God I think you are right. My bad.

[anonim]

I think that in any serious evaluation of BM impact and consequences it is аdvisable to consider one highly important factor - pure personality behind. If I am not wrong, Grant Petty has total drivе-control of BM policy, and it seems to me that it is a man devoted to personal vision and strong feeling of his world-mission. For him, profit alone is not The most important goal - although of course important - but craving to make/left some relevant trace behind him. Some sort of Steve Jobs, maybe... What BM done with Resolve is wonder - and it seems that Petty decisively follow his idea of democratizing movie-making to the utmost boundaries... So, to me all other reasons/aspects of this one attempt are simply executive and secondary - it seems to me that here we are also witnessing to higher evolution of someone noble self-actualization, in the meaning that, say, Abraham Maslow gave to that syntagm...