Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[Axel]

2 hours ago, jonpais said:

It sounds like nobody can question anything at all about the camera, and it hasn’t even been released. If it had dual pixel autofocus, would you also take a pass? a long life Panasonic battery? Or are you in Frank Glencairn’s camp - only sissies complain about battery life?

I question a lot about the camera. It's not a big deal to swap batteries every 30 minutes or so (I don't buy one hour), did that with the old Pocket, do it with A6500 (although I could, and I did on one occasion, plug a powerbank to he USB port). But you're right, there are a lot of obstacles. I use AF only on a gimbal (the slightest focus hunting during the unrepeatable bridal kiss would ruin the shot for me), I never use AE, I can shoot handheld up to 85mm fullframe equivalent (with custom rig - although if they're there, I do use IBIS and OIS as well). What bothers me the most right now is that it will take me weeks to rig the BMPCC 4k to my needs, and though I find some pleasure in this kind of problem solving, it comes with frustration too.

That's the biggest question about the camera. Too big to be pocketed. Probably not very good without rig. And it needed a big rig too, unless someone will provide a 5" loupe ...

[cantsin]

2 hours ago, jonpais said:

It sounds like nobody can question anything at all about the camera, and it hasn’t even been released. If it had dual pixel autofocus, would you also take a pass? a long life Panasonic battery? Or are you in Frank Glencairn’s camp - only sissies complain about battery life?

Features like dual pixel autofocus and in-body stabilization will not come from small/non-mainstream manufacturers like Blackmagic any time soon, because they are highly proprietary, patented technology to which only major companies have access.

[John Brawley]

4 hours ago, jonpais said:

It sounds like nobody can question anything at all about the camera, and it hasn’t even been released. If it had dual pixel autofocus, would you also take a pass? a long life Panasonic battery? Or are you in Frank Glencairn’s camp - only sissies complain about battery life?

It sounds like you’re threatened by this camera so you’re making sure you point out any and all shortcomings you can. Isn’t sissy a bit emotional ? You’re reaching.

Some people will be happy with 10bit 422 as their maximum image quality as long as they have a tilt able screen and autofocus. 

Most serious image makers know that 12bit raw and 10 bit ProRes for half the price trumps the MILC features you’re desperately trying to remind everyone your precious GH5s has. Mostly because “filmmakers” don’t tend to use those features anyway. I don’t use AF.  But I shoot narrative drama.  What I need isn’t what others need.

For the majority, they will prefer the utility of the form factor, longer battery life, AF and IBIS on the GH5 and will find the bare minimum for serious work 400Mbps codec to be good enough. 

People who care about image fidelity will likely prefer what a Pocket 2 produces side by side and will also decide that they can work around the shortcomings that pertain to the way they work.

The same way others will prefer to work around the shortcomings of a lower bit depth more compressed and sub sampled image because other features are important to them. 

On board batteries on an Alexa mini on my last show were lasting about 40 mins by the way.  I guess you’re calling me a sissy. 

JB

EDIT  by the way, I don’t think it’s at all appropriate to use sissy, a word that means effeminate man or homosexual. Maybe you want to change that.

[jonpais]

15 minutes ago, John Brawley said:

It sounds like you’re threatened by this camera so you’re making sure you point out any and all shortcomings you can. Isn’t sissy a bit emotional ? You’re reaching.

Some people will be happy with 10bit 422 as their maximum image quality as long as they have a tilt able screen and autofocus. 

Most serious image makers know that 12bit raw and 10 bit ProRes for half the price trumps the MILC features you’re desperately trying to remind everyone your precious GH5s has. Mostly because “filmmakers” don’t tend to use those features anyway. I don’t use AF.  But I shoot narrative drama.  What I need isn’t what others need.

For the majority, they will prefer the utility of the form factor, longer battery life, AF and IBIS on the GH5 and will find the bare minimum for serious work 400Mbps codec to be good enough. 

People who care about image fidelity will likely prefer what a Pocket 2 produces side by side and will also decide that they can work around the shortcomings that pertain to the way they work.

The same way others will prefer to work around the shortcomings of a lower bit depth more compressed and sub sampled image because other features are important to them. 

On board batteries on an Alexa mini on my last show were lasting about 40 mins by the way.  I guess you’re calling me a sissy. 

JB

EDIT  by the way, I don’t think it’s at all appropriate to use sissy, a word that means effeminate man or homosexual. Maybe you want to change that.

I think you called yourself that. I didn't call anybody anything.

[John Brawley]

17 minutes ago, jonpais said:

I think you called yourself that. I didn't call anybody anything.

Sir. You used the word in a way that everyone undstands to mean gay or effiminate.

JB

[Simco123]

1 hour ago, John Brawley said:

Sir. You used the word in a way that everyone undstands to mean gay or effiminate.

JB

I may not be a fan of how some of the conversation but you do come across as somewhat prententious just for the sake of winning an argument. You sound Petty.

[Axel]

jonpais paraphrased Frank Glencairn, who in spirit (if not literally) wrote that battery whiners were sissies. Did he intend to insult gays? Well, english is not my native language, but to me "sissy" sounds more like "pantywaist". Frank is living in Bavaria, a country that's not famous for diplomacy or political correctness or much respect for "snowflakes". 

[Kieran]

7 minutes ago, Axel said:

jonpais paraphrased Frank Glencairn, who in spirit (if not literally) wrote that battery whiners were sissies. Did he intend to insult gays? Well, english is not my native language, but to me "sissy" sounds more like "pantywaist". Frank is living in Bavaria, a country that's not famous for diplomacy or political correctness or much respect for "snowflakes". 

I read Frank's blog and unless I missed it, he didn't use that word at all or anything like it. He just said people should quit whining. Jon Pais attributed it to him in order to passively aggressively use it himself I think. 

[Anaconda_]

This is ridiculous guys. Maybe there should be a 'bullshit' thread? 

Is it a good idea to talk about the projects people hope o have this camera in time for? I'm shooting a film festival in September and really hope I have this in my bag by then.

[Turboguard]

50 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

This is ridiculous guys. Maybe there should be a 'bullshit' thread? 

Is it a good idea to talk about the projects people hope o have this camera in time for? I'm shooting a film festival in September and really hope I have this in my bag by then.

I’m going to a music event in the woods of Pennsylvania in August and would have loved to have it by then but I guess it’s big brother OG pocket will do! Gah, I really wish they would just drop it now for early preorders.

[mercer]

26 minutes ago, Turboguard said:

I’m going to a music event in the woods of Pennsylvania in August and would have loved to have it by then but I guess it’s big brother OG pocket will do! Gah, I really wish they would just drop it now for early preorders.

Folk Fest? Are you from Pennsylvania?

Hopefully we’ll see some official footage from it sometime soon.

[Anaconda_]

Quicker link for those who want to sign: http://www.change.org/p/blackmagic-design-we-ask-blackmagic-design-to-add-super-16-windowed-mode-to-pocket-4k-camera

[Kieran]

2 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

Quicker link for those who want to sign: http://www.change.org/p/blackmagic-design-we-ask-blackmagic-design-to-add-super-16-windowed-mode-to-pocket-4k-camera

Already signed this when I saw it on Facebook. I'm hoping Blackmagic will take notice. I bought quite a few S16 cine lenses for my BMPCC including the very lovely Angenieux 17-68mm, the Angenieux 25mm 0.95 and a set of de-clicked Kiev 16U primes. It would be great to have the option of S16 in higher resolution on the new camera. 

[Kieran]

On 25/05/2018 at 3:14 PM, anonim said:

 

 

I was very impressed by these films when I saw them on JB's blog at the time. Very cinematic looking and great skin tones with fantastic stabilisation. It was only the aliasing evident on that petrol station roof which put me off buying the EM5 mkll at the time.  However an EM5 mkIII with 4K and IBIS must be due very soon and if they have fixed those aliasing issues, it could well be a serious challenger to the BMPCC4K for those looking for a filmic image. 

[Simco123]

15 hours ago, Axel said:

jonpais paraphrased Frank Glencairn, who in spirit (if not literally) wrote that battery whiners were sissies. Did he intend to insult gays? Well, english is not my native language, but to me "sissy" sounds more like "pantywaist". Frank is living in Bavaria, a country that's not famous for diplomacy or political correctness or much respect for "snowflakes". 

John Brawley comes from Australia, the land of Crocodile Dundee, Castlemaine XXXX. Argueably one of the lesser PC country on this planet. Regardless the word 'sissy" does not exclusively apply to genderbase. We all know Jonpais did not meant to imply sexism but those who are soft living when he used the word "sissy" but somehow Mr Brawley wanted to out him as some kind of enemy of the #MeToo movement . It was pretentous and immature.

[Kieran]

John Brawley is a pro cinematographer and we should be grateful he shares his experience and insights on this forum. Seeing him harangued by Jon Pais, a pedant who's oeuvre mainly consists of filming unwitting subjects in his local cafe, is just ridiculous. If we want more of the calibre of John Brawley posting on here, we shouldn't tolerate the constant argumentative overly defensive crapola spouted by Pais. Personally I'd like to see him banned. At least that would give him more time for his, ahem, 'filmmaking'. 

[kye]

So, about the Pocket 2 then....

[Kieran]

15 minutes ago, kye said:

So, about the Pocket 2 then....

It's gonna be amazing ?

I've put up with all of the shortcomings of the original pocket because of the image. So this one will be a luxury.  

[John Brawley]

2 hours ago, Simco123 said:

John Brawley comes from Australia, the land of Crocodile Dundee, Castlemaine XXXX. Argueably one of the lesser PC country on this planet. Regardless the word 'sissy" does not exclusively apply to genderbase. We all know Jonpais did not meant to imply sexism but those who are soft living when he used the word "sissy" but somehow Mr Brawley wanted to out him as some kind of enemy of the #MeToo movement . It was pretentous and immature.

I'm not really worried about what someone calls me.  I've sure heard worse.

I don't really care what you think of me either, but thanks for taking the time to let me know.

I don't wish to derail this thread any more than it already has been.  Don't bother reading below if you don't wish to.

I accept the way I use a camera isn't the way others use a camera.  I love a robust, informed and respectful discussion about features and approaches to workflow.   I'm happy to argue the pros and cons till the cows come home and I love being proven wrong. 

But some users posting here seem to want this argument to be more than that. They are specifically trying to look for contradictory quotes from me for the purposes of muddying the issues being discussed.  I'm happy to chat about that too.

With regards to use of language, I'm going to respond in kind when I perceive that someone is vilifying someone else with language that absolutely has a problematic past.  All I actually did was ask the poster to re-consider the language being used.  The poster then argued he didn't use the word in contention.

Language is highly subjective and contextual.  I merely pointed out that I don't think it's an appropriate way to describe another user of this forum because it's akin to saying you're the equal of someone that's effeminate ( you're the SAME as a woman ) or gay because of how often they change battery.

That's what sissy means.  You may have thought he meant something else.  But I didn't have to look it up to understand he was saying.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sissy

"Sissy (derived from sister), also sissy baby, sissy boy, sissy man, sissy pants, etc., is a pejorative term for a boy or man who does not conform to male gender stereotypes. Generally, sissy implies a lack of courage, strength, athleticism, coordination, testosterone, male libido, and stoic calm, all of which have traditionally been associated with masculinity and considered important to the male role in Western society. A man might also be considered a sissy for being interested in traditionally feminine hobbies or employment (e.g., being fond of fashion), displaying effeminate behavior (e.g., using hair products or displaying limp wrists), being unathletic, or being homosexual."

I guess you're OK with that choice of language or you genuinely thought it meant something else by wanting to argue it,  but I'm going to call it out if I don't think it's appropriate and invite the poster to edit their post in case they don't realise that some may find it offensive. It's just decent courtesy on a public forum like this.  We're not at the pub with your mates.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that not a single one of you posting here is a woman.   And actually I would love to be surprised if there was someone lurking who wanted to out themselves and weigh in with their views.

I don't think you get to decide if it's offensive or not. You can still call me names for pointing out though if you like ?

While you may not care about such language because you can take a joke, it's not you that's being vilified.

Why do you think women don't post in forums like this ?  Because they are out there.  They read these forums and choose not to engage because of the boys club that this place can be.  Especially when talking about the very kind of issue that makes them not feel comfortable and welcomed in a forum like this.

This is not about being PC . It's about us as men calling out language like this because it does matter.  You're wrong if you think those who are vilified aren't here lurking and choosing not to post.  Maybe it doesn't matter to you, but to those one describes by using this language, it matters a great deal.

Maybe you can try asking them.

JB

EDIT . Oh and by the way, in the ACS, the Australian Cinematographers Guild, female members make up about 10% of the membership and only 2% of the accredited members.  I can't think of many other fields where the gender disparity is so high, can you ?

 

 

[kaylee]

im a cat