Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[jonpais]

22 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah when you figure you get about a $10,000.00 lens with it in FF equivalence than yeah it is a bargain compared to the GH5.

I think he is right. Look at Resolve. They Are giving it away literally. And the Studio one is Only 299 bucks, They are nearly giving that away also. They want you to buy a BM Camera and use BM Resolve, and then you are hooked, in a good way, into the BM Voodoo or whatever you call it.

Nah, they’re making a profit.

[SR]

Man, did I just see a fiscal report? This thread has changed quite a bit.

Had a question. The SanDisk 1TB is currently only USD199. Whereas the Samsung 1TB is USD329. Although my primary requirement is more for storage, I'd still like to be able to use it with the BMPCC4K if needed. Any reason the SanDisk wouldn't work as well as the Samsung?

 

 

[Damphousse]

12 minutes ago, SR said:

Man, did I just see a fiscal report? This thread has changed quite a bit.

Had a question. The SanDisk 1TB is currently only USD199. Whereas the Samsung 1TB is USD329. Although my primary requirement is more for storage, I'd still like to be able to use it with the BMPCC4K if needed. Any reason the SanDisk wouldn't work as well as the Samsung?

You will have to look at benchmarks.  The Samsung T5 SSD is one of the fastest portable USB C 3.1 drives out there.  It is definitely faster than several competitors.  I don't know how it compares to that Sandisk.

As far as I know recording raw to USB C is a novel feature.  I would wait until the camera is out and the feature is tested by multiple sources before making any plans.

[MurtlandPhoto]

17 minutes ago, Damphousse said:

As far as I know recording raw to USB C is a novel feature.  I would wait until the camera is out and the feature is tested by multiple sources before making any plans.

Blackmagic has been showcasing the feature pretty heavily since the camera's announcement. I think it's safe to assume that the functionality will be exactly as intended.

BM covers the topic in two sequential sections on their website even.

 

[SR]

17 minutes ago, Damphousse said:

You will have to look at benchmarks.  The Samsung T5 SSD is one of the fastest portable USB C 3.1 drives out there.  It is definitely faster than several competitors.  I don't know how it compares to that Sandisk.

As far as I know recording raw to USB C is a novel feature.  I would wait until the camera is out and the feature is tested by multiple sources before making any plans.

Would I be correct in assuming that the Samsung T5 SSD (as a benchmark) would be capable for recording at uncompressed raw from the BMPCC4K?

[MurtlandPhoto]

2 minutes ago, SR said:

Would I be correct in assuming that the Samsung T5 SSD (as a benchmark) would be capable for recording at uncompressed raw from the BMPCC4K?

Yes, it is the drive that BM has been showing on their website and live at trade shows.

 

[Damphousse]

17 minutes ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

Blackmagic has been showcasing the feature pretty heavily since the camera's announcement. I think it's safe to assume that the functionality will be exactly as intended.

BM covers the topic in two sequential sections on their website even.

Anyone can say anything in their marketing materials.  I've bought enough tech that has had enough quirks that I know only real world usage will reveal all the issues.

I guess you weren't around for all the trial and error with the original BMPCC and SD cards?

[MurtlandPhoto]

1 minute ago, Damphousse said:

Anyone can say anything in their marketing materials.  I've bought enough tech that has had enough quirks that I know only real world usage will reveal all the issues.

I guess you weren't around for all the trial and error with the original BMPCC and SD cards?

I certainly was around for that. Those were early days. BM was still young & inexperienced and SD cards were not up to the same read/write standards that they are today. The landscape has massively shifted since then. 

[Snowfun]

What is the optimum way of saving raw files - internal cfast or the T5 ssd? I’d rather not have to buy both so it would be interesting to hear views. 

 

[John Brawley]

29 minutes ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

I certainly was around for that. Those were early days. BM was still young & inexperienced and SD cards were not up to the same read/write standards that they are today. The landscape has massively shifted since then. 

There were data rate issues with BMD recommended SD cards ?

jb

[MurtlandPhoto]

13 minutes ago, John Brawley said:

There were data rate issues with BMD recommended SD cards ?

jb

No specific issues with BM and SD cards. The issue was that the Pocket cam required fast write speeds that very few cards had at the time. Card manufacturers were labeling cards with max read speed which confused users when they wouldn't work in the Pocket. BM's only fault was not clarifying this for users. Ultimately, it wasn't their fault, but they could have helped educate users to alleviate the frustrations. Whether BM's intention or not, the Pocket was eaten up by consumers who had little to no knowledge of card speeds. 

[Damphousse]

1 hour ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

I certainly was around for that. Those were early days. BM was still young & inexperienced and SD cards were not up to the same read/write standards that they are today. The landscape has massively shifted since then. 

I respectfully disagree.  Tons of manufactures were using SD cards to record pictures and video internally for years before Blackmagic got into the game.  Blackmagic merely wanted to write data at a higher volume than most.  No one that I know of is using USB C drives to record raw externally straight from the camera.  It is a completely novel approach unlike SD cards when the BMPCC was announced.

I can't understand how you can be so confident about something we have never seen in the wild.  I hope it works as advertised and it is something I definitely want to pick up in the future if it pans out.  But it is insane to say this drive or that drive will work flawlessly at this stage. The Samsung T5 looks interesting but I couldn't possibly comment on other drives.  Just have to wait and see.

And I certainly wouldn't buy anything until I had the camera in hand so I could test it all myself.

1 hour ago, Snowfun said:

What is the optimum way of saving raw files - internal cfast or the T5 ssd? I’d rather not have to buy both so it would be interesting to hear views.

Other manufactures do raw to internal cfast cards no problem.  See Canon's C200.  And of course Blackmagic's own URSA Mini Pro 4.6K.  Cfast cards are a proven bullet proof solution.  If I had to guess I would think internal recording to Cfast cards would be the "best" way to record.  The problem is Cfast cards are damn expensive.

Some people in this thread have mentioned USB C port reliability.  Obviously you have to mount the USB C drive somewhere and then you have a cable snaking around your rig.  It introduces multiple points of possible failure.  I haven't seen a port protector solution for the USB C port yet.  I am surprised there aren't more people working on that issue.  If someone came up with a mounting and port protector solution for external power and the USB C port I think they would do well.

I don't mean to be negative about the USB C route.  But looking at the situation objectively raises a number of questions.

51 minutes ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

No specific issues with BM and SD cards. The issue was that the Pocket cam required fast write speeds that very few cards had at the time. Card manufacturers were labeling cards with max read speed which confused users when they wouldn't work in the Pocket. BM's only fault was not clarifying this for users. Ultimately, it wasn't their fault, but they could have helped educate users to alleviate the frustrations. Whether BM's intention or not, the Pocket was eaten up by consumers who had little to no knowledge of card speeds. 

Actually I remember Blackmagic "clarifying" things.  And I also remember after the "clarification" them removing cards from their recommended list.  At launch Blackmagic themselves couldn't tell us with 100% certitude which old tech SD cards would work.  I certainly don't think an anonymous person on the internet can list for us all the USB C drives that will work with the BMPCC 4k before the camera has even launched.

[Anaconda_]

3 hours ago, SR said:

Any reason the SanDisk wouldn't work as well as the Samsung?

I don't know much, but the read/write speeds seem to suggest it'll work just fine.

SanDisk is 500MB/s write and Samsung is 515MB/s write. I can't imagine the difference being enough to worry about

I like the little loop in the corner, make's for a nice place to connect the drive to the camera, minimising risk of losing a connection. 

[Mokara]

On ‎7‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 10:38 PM, jonpais said:

are you saying the RX100 has more tech than the GH5? Does it have anamorphic mode, 10-bit internal, full HDMI out, the ability to save all settings to an SD card, waveform monitor, truly usable touch screen, fully articulating LCD, 4K 60p unlimited recording, and on and on? If the batcam had all the features of Sony, Panasonic or Fuji, it would cost in the same ballpark. 

Compared to the equivalent Panasonic camera, it does have more tech included. For it's form factor the RX100 series without question are technologically the class leader.

[LtJTMarsh]

there was a hot deal few days ago for the T5, anyone know if you can get curly USB C cable ?

[John Brawley]

What I recall is 99% of people that complained about media issues didn’t use cards from BMD’s list.  I know that they also struggled to keep up with the SSD list because it takes a while to certify media and the manufacturers were constantly changing the performance.  I vaguely recall one of the SSD drives that WAS recommended wouldn’t work when they went to the next generartion of the same branded media.  That’s not on BMD.

It is why they changed to CFAST though even though everyone seems to think SSD are the perfect solution and always work.  Go look on BMD’s forums at the number of complaints over SSD’s with the original BMCC.

I personally worry about USB-C as a port for reliable use.  I would hope someon comes out with a cage or mount that locks that plug down.

I’ll be sticking to CFAST.

JB

 

 

 

 

 

[LtJTMarsh]

*agreed .  that USC_C looks like it won't hold up to field use.  likely will need a cage with port protector and maybe breakaway cable.  (hopefully) not breaking away will recording raw. LOL

500GB is still 127 on  b and h website

 

[MurtlandPhoto]

3 hours ago, Damphousse said:

I can't understand how you can be so confident about something we have never seen in the wild.  I hope it works as advertised and it is something I definitely want to pick up in the future if it pans out.  But it is insane to say this drive or that drive will work flawlessly at this stage. The Samsung T5 looks interesting but I couldn't possibly comment on other drives.  Just have to wait and see.

I'm confident because I believe the tech makes sense. Really... the signal remains as raw data off the sensor and processor and is recorded to the SDD just as it would the internal SD or cFast cards. The speed of the port and the speed of the drive make it all feasible. A layman to this side of the tech (me) can understand this much more easily than even pulling raw video from a feed through SDI to a monitor.

BM has evolved as a company and so I'm confident that if they make this promise, they'll follow through with it. I could be wrong, but even if I am I'm only out $200 and I still get a nice SSD

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Damphousse said:

I certainly don't think an anonymous person on the internet can list for us all the USB C drives that will work with the BMPCC 4k before the camera has even launched.

My username is my business name; there's nothing anonymous about it. Regardless, I only endorsed the Samsung t5 because that is what BM has shown in materials and at trade shows. I bought a t5 myself in preparation for the camera's launch, so I put my {Prime Day discount} money where my mouth is ?

[Damphousse]

1 hour ago, John Brawley said:

What I recall is 99% of people that complained about media issues didn’t use cards from BMD’s list.  I know that they also struggled to keep up with the SSD list because it takes a while to certify media and the manufacturers were constantly changing the performance.  I vaguely recall one of the SSD drives that WAS recommended wouldn’t work when they went to the next generartion of the same branded media.  That’s not on BMD.

Not looking to blame anyone least of all Blackmagic.  Just illustrating for people some thought, care, and patience is advised.   If people went into these things with a bit more patience and real world information there would be a lot less noise on the forums from people complaining about this and that.

We asked for a high performance machine and Blackmagic has delivered again and again.  But it is a high performance machine and needs to be respected.  No sense rushing in and then posting complaints all over the internet.

17 minutes ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

My username is my business name; there's nothing anonymous about it. Regardless, I only endorsed the Samsung t5 because that is what BM has shown in materials and at trade shows. I bought a t5 myself in preparation for the camera's launch, so I put my {Prime Day discount} money where my mouth is ?

Cool.  I'm not dropping hundreds of dollars on unreviewed cutting edge tech for a camera that isn't even out yet.  I at least want the opportunity to return something if it doesn't meet my expectations.

It's a free country.  Anyone can do whatever they want with their money.  But as Brawley pointed out people have a tendency to create a lot of unnecessary noise on the internet after they rush into something.

[MurtlandPhoto]

1 minute ago, Damphousse said:

Cool.  I'm not dropping hundreds of dollars on unreviewed cutting edge tech for a camera that isn't even out yet.  I at least want the opportunity to return something if it doesn't meet my expectations.

It's a free country.  Anyone can do whatever they want with their money.  But as Brawley pointed out people have a tendency to create a lot of unnecessary noise on the internet after they rush into something.

I understand completely. I'm willing to take the risk, but I also know that I could be completely wrong. I'm one of the few that will rush out and take that risk, but won't complain if I get burned by it. Thanks for the back and forth, man. ✌️