Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[Anaconda_]

5 minutes ago, jonpais said:

precisely. but let’s argue about it anyhow since I’m retired and have nothing but time on my hands. ?

Not arguing, just thought it was funny. 

13 minutes ago, jonpais said:

And to think all you need to do is quote the list price at B&H and say you’ll need media and batteries (which have come free with every camera I’ve purchased in the past 5 years btw). ?

Not sure if you noticed, but BMD have stated that this camera will come with 1 battery in the box. The above quote kinda sounds like you're saying that it doesn't come with any battery, so wanted to clarify. Sure one won't last too long,  but LPE6 batteries are so cheap. If you don't already have any they're like €30 for 2 and a charger. Or like said, you could go the external power route at a later date.

My point is, you can use the camera out of the box. I'm fairly confident that even the 95mbps Sandisk cards will be able to handle LT and maybe even 422 at 25/30p. I'd say most of us here have those cards or something similar, so can shoot on the very first day the camera arrives without having to buy anything extra.

2 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

This is not a Corporate, Doc camera.

To me it seems perfect for that, in fact, that's almost exactly what I intend to use this camera for, as well as live music performance - not concerts, but performed specifically for the camera - The only reason it won't be fantastic in a documentary situation is the battery, but as discussed, there's easy ways around that. And IS, but that depends on your style of shooting and style of doc. For me, it won't be a problem.

[webrunner5]

To be honest I would love to see Smartphones get about twice as better as they are now and I would be in business. I am amazed what little effort is required to get decent video now out of one compared to packing all the crap you need for a decent rig. And I don't think it is that far off to be honest. Now sure you aren't going to make a feature film with one anytime soon, but for the average stuff a lot of us do, lugging around a kit from hell is a bit overboard. ?

2 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

Not arguing, just thought it was funny. 

Not sure if you noticed, but BMD have stated that this camera will come with 1 battery in the box. The above quote kinda sounds like you're saying that it doesn't come with any battery, so wanted to clarify. Sure one won't last too long,  but LPE6 batteries are so cheap. If you don't already have any they're like €30 for 2 and a charger. Or like said, you could go the external power route at a later date.

My point is, you can use the camera out of the box. I'm fairly confident that even the 95mbps Sandisk cards will be able to handle LT and maybe even 422 at 25/30p. I'd say most of us here have those cards or something similar, so can shoot on the very first day the camera arrives without having to buy anything extra.

To me it seems perfect for that, in fact, that's almost exactly what I intend to use this camera for, as well as live music performance - not concerts, but performed specifically for the camera - The only reason it won't be fantastic in a documentary situation is the battery, but as discussed, there's easy ways around that. And IS, but that depends on your style of shooting and style of doc. For me, it won't be a problem.

I don't think Push AF is going to be fun doing Run n Gun. But sure most music videos are shot on a Cine Camera with no AF. You can always use a wide as hell lens and set it to like f5.6 and get Everything in focus. ?

[jonpais]

3 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

Not arguing, just thought it was funny. 

Not sure if you noticed, but BMD have stated that this camera will come with 1 battery in the box. The above quote kinda sounds like you're saying that it doesn't come with any battery, so wanted to clarify. Sure one won't last too long,  but LPE6 batteries are so cheap. If you don't already have any they're like €30 for 2 and a charger. Or like said, you could go the external power route at a later date.

My point is, you can use the camera out of the box. I'm fairly confident that even the 95mbps Sandisk cards will be able to handle LT and maybe even 422 at 25/30p. I'd say most of us here have those cards or something similar, so can shoot on the very first day the camera arrives without having to buy anything extra.

To me it seems perfect for that, in fact, that's almost exactly what I intend to use this camera for, as well as live music performance - not concerts, but performed specifically for the camera - The only reason it won't be fantastic in a documentary situation is the battery, but as discussed, there's easy ways around that. And IS, but that depends on your style of shooting and style of doc. For me, it won't be a problem.

Not arguing with you either, @Anaconda_ . 

[webrunner5]

I just think a Canon C100 mk II would be my go to for Corporate, Doc work. Heck Wide DR right OOC can nearly work on them. Who wants to grade and color all day for that kind of work. Now music videos, sure I will take the BM over a Canon. It's the old, no one camera thingy.

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

Out of Likes. Yeah they were pretty terrible but man the output. Lot better than changing a film cartridge like every 2 to 3 minutes minutes in a Super 8mm film movie camera I can tell you that! ? 

 I really don't mind changing batteries often. I never shoot for long periods, and batteries sucked even more years ago. But yeah it would be nice not to have to worry about them. But no matter how long they last somebody would piss and moan they don't last 2 days. ?

Seems even in 2018 there are still very high end cameras out there which require you to reload the media and batteries again on a very frequent basis:

http://jwsoundgroup.net/?app=core&module=system&controller=content&do=find&content_class=forums_Topic&content_id=31876&content_commentid=350277

 

[jonpais]

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

We once burned through 13 batteries for a BMPCC on a music video I was a 1st AC for. 

It’s ideal for those suffering from obsessive compulsive disorder. 

[IronFilm]

3 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

People are not going to use this camera for long shoots. This is not a Corporate, Doc camera. That is Canon C100, C300 territory.  Vloggers, Weddings hell it doesn't even have AF worth shit. Yeah right.

I've done tonnes of vlogs and weddings without ever once using AutoFocus. 

And I'm 100% certain many corporate shooters will use the BMPCC4K, and some doco shooters too. 

 

[kye]

1 minute ago, IronFilm said:

I've done tonnes of vlogs and weddings without ever once using AutoFocus. 

And I'm 100% certain many corporate shooters will use the BMPCC4K, and some doco shooters too. 

 

I'd be surprised if they didn't.

The vlogging community has been jumping up and down about a "floppy screen" and great AF, but all the Sony vloggers have learned to vlog without seeing the screen, and GH5 users have learned about MF, so it's possible.

Considering that run and gun docos, corporate gigs, and the like are more controlled and slower paced affairs (certainly than the grind of daily vlogging) so MF and other limitations are surmountable.  People have been running and gunning at close to the same pace probably since auto-exposure.  and with film there was no preview window

[DBounce]

Where is the footage? 

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

To be honest I would love to see Smartphones get about twice as better as they are now and I would be in business. I am amazed what little effort is required to get decent video now out of one compared to packing all the crap you need for a decent rig. And I don't think it is that far off to be honest. Now sure you aren't going to make a feature film with one anytime soon, but for the average stuff a lot of us do, lugging around a kit from hell is a bit overboard. ?

Was chatting on Facebook about this music video shot (just around the corner from where I live! I've been to this studio before) with a Samsung S9:
 

As the person was asking how good does it look?

Well to me it is blatantly obvious it was shot with a cellphone!

 

[webrunner5]

33 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Was chatting on Facebook about this music video shot (just around the corner from where I live! I've been to this studio before) with a Samsung S9:
 

As the person was asking how good does it look?

Well to me it is blatantly obvious it was shot with a cellphone!

 

They had to make an effort to make it look that bad! You know and I know they can look a Lot better than that.

This one is pretty good.

And this is not too bad for night time.

 

10 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Seems even in 2018 there are still very high end cameras out there which require you to reload the media and batteries again on a very frequent basis:

http://jwsoundgroup.net/?app=core&module=system&controller=content&do=find&content_class=forums_Topic&content_id=31876&content_commentid=350277

 

Think that is bad check out the Data Usage on the Arri Panavision 65 @ Open Gate 6.5K, 5858mbs! 10 minutes on a 512gb card!

http://www.arri.com/camera/alexa/tools/arri_formats_datarate_calculator/

 

 

[webrunner5]

9 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I've done tonnes of vlogs and weddings without ever once using AutoFocus.

 

I had Diarrhea yesterday and it cleaned me out, too many Beers I guess. But, get that butt part, that doesn't mean I like it LoL. ?

[Mokara]

21 hours ago, John Brawley said:

 

I guess you’re right...

 

So, given a choice between a C200 or similar and this thing at the same price, you would choose the BM camera?

[Anaconda_]

Sorry for posting the same video again, but..... @John Brawley what are your thoughts on this hypothesis? (using ISOs lower than the native for 'cleaner' images)

 

[John Brawley]

31 minutes ago, Mokara said:

So, given a choice between a C200 or similar and this thing at the same price, you would choose the BM camera?

I can use pretty much any camera I choose to on a show like this.

Which is why comments like yours don’t make a lot of sense.  There’s always exceptions to totalitarian comments like that ?

In this case, I short a short test in pre of the kinds of shots we’d be doing on the show. We blind tested DXL, Alexa Mini, Helium and UMP. 

The very very experienced and visually accomplished director picked the UMP as the one he liked most for look based on the graded images from the four cameras we tested. He’s also worked with me before with the operating style you see above which he also likes very much.  

Based on look (from a blind test) and based on operating ballistics (as above) production chose UMP.  

Like I said on a pilot we could have had pretty much any camera we wanted.

What would a C200 give me in drama shooting that the UMP doesn’t have ? 

JB

[Jonesy Jones]

24 minutes ago, John Brawley said:

What would a C200 give me in drama shooting that the UMP doesn’t have ? 

The Canon logo, and less features. 

Next to film, Sony Venice is my favorite image. Then UMP. It’s really a special image. 

I really hope it’s upcoming little brother rocks. Not that the UMP is huge, but I’m trying balance image with size. 

[John Brawley]

1 hour ago, Anaconda_ said:

Sorry for posting the same video again, but..... @John Brawley what are your thoughts on this hypothesis? (using ISOs lower than the native for 'cleaner' images)

 

I think Zero Dark Thirty has some of the best night work. It was shot at iso 200 on alexa. 

 

JB

[Savannah Miller]

C200 is a crippled camera.  No timecode, no Prores, only a "Raw Lite" codec that varies between 12 and 10-bit depending on framerates.  Canon again did their sneaky business to remove any features that would prevent higher-end clients from ever wanting to use the camera.  For single shooters it's not a bad camera.

Dynamic range of the C200 is less than the Blackmagic too.

[mercer]

1 hour ago, Savannah Miller said:

Dynamic range of the C200 is less than the Blackmagic too.

Raw in the C200 is advertised at 15 stops. CLog3 is 13-14. So same or better. 

With that being said, the Ursa Pro, C200, and EVA1 are all fine cameras. I assume the P4K will follow suit and be an amazing tool for any low/Micro budget filmmaker and most likely will continue with the moniker as a baby Alexa. 

So pick your poison and go and tell a great story, they’re all capable tools. 

[John Brawley]

2 hours ago, mercer said:

Raw in the C200 is advertised at 15 stops. CLog3 is 13-14. So same or better.  

Doesn’t shoot ProRes. 

Inconsistently can’t shoot 12 bit and has to shoot compressed RAW to do it.

Doesnt as easily look like Alexa as the UMP does.

Doesnt do TC. Major major problem in a multi camera TV drama series. That makes it instantly a non starter by the way for any serious regular use.

Unergonomic to use the way I like to operate.

The only thing it can do better for the way i shoot is AF.  And I don’t really use AF.

JB