Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[dslnc]

If the BRAW delivers as promised - to me the BMpcc4k gets an even better package - it almost makes the h264/5 10bit intra codecs look very dated...(and don't get me started on the 4:2:0 8bit variations...)

And did they just seal the proresraw fate?

[jonpais]

It looks that way, doesn’t it?

[mercer]

14 minutes ago, jonpais said:

The update will be free.

I hope so.

[Joek]

1 minute ago, dslnc said:

And did they just seal the proresraw fate?

I hope so. I've been waiting since the beginning for Prores Raw to be supported on any windows based NLE and Apple has been purposefully holding back. Apple deserves what is coming to them. 

[mercer]

9 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

That's true, but since its their own codec, it doesn't make sense to hold it back from their own customers. Especially since it's open for other manufacturers to use. I'd say its 100% going to be implemented, and 99.9% it'll be free.

 

Well, there were a few instances in the past that BM said a camera was getting an upgrade or a spec was going to be included that never panned out so although I believe they are trying, I wouldn’t be surprised if it doesn’t happen.

As far as what is available to other manufacturers, all I’ve heard is that the SDK is free for post workflows and an insinuation that other camera manufacturers can include BRaw in their cameras but I’m assuming there will be a licensing fee for those companies.

[Andrew Reid]

15 minutes ago, dslnc said:

If the BRAW delivers as promised - to me the BMpcc4k gets an even better package - it almost makes the h264/5 10bit intra codecs look very dated...(and don't get me started on the 4:2:0 8bit variations...)

And did they just seal the proresraw fate?

Yes the codec's great, but nobody seems to be considering the whole package here, because there's no IBIS, no EVF, autofocus performance is yet to be proven, the battery life is miserable and the files will be VERY large at their highest quality.

You have to measure the EXACT difference in the final graded image between BRAW on this, and something like 10bit LOG on the X-T3.

I think for all the codec niceness the difference will be smaller than people think. Now ask yourself if it is worth the hassle of the strange form factor, no articulated screen, need to rig it up with EVF, external bits and a stabiliser...

It is also sensor-limited. We're not talking about a sensor as good as the X-T3 or A7 III. And the slow-mo is an even bigger crop.

Sure, I liked what ProRes and RAW brought to the image with the last Pocket camera, certainly in the creamy shadows and in low light.

But it was as good in 10bit ProRes as it was in Cinema DNG RAW.

So 10bit H.265 at the same bitrate as ProRes with Fuji F-LOG from a larger BSI 6K sensor with full pixel readout (possibly Samsung) has the potential to be just as good if not better.

Not to mention the fact it is much easier to go full frame on the S35 sensor with a Speed Booster than to turn the Pocket 4K sensor into no-crop.

[mercer]

9 minutes ago, dslnc said:

And did they just seal the proresraw fate?

Nah, what they may have done is forced Apple to go a step further with ProRes Raw but I doubt Apple will abandon one of their products because a small company in Australia made a competing product. 

[jonpais]

That is hysterical. Prores RAW has only been out a few months and has already been implemented in Sony, Panasonic and Canon cinema cameras. It is up to NLEs to implement Prores RAW, not Apple. But yeah, Apple does deserve every bit that’s coming to them - all $850 billion dollars of it. ?

8 minutes ago, Joek said:

I hope so. I've been waiting since the beginning for Prores Raw to be supported on any windows based NLE and Apple has been purposefully holding back. Apple deserves what is coming to them. 

 

[Andrew Reid]

I think there's more than enough room for a few new raw codecs on the market.

RED raw did not kill any Apple codecs as far as I could tell!!

[jonpais]

4 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I think there's more than enough room for a few new raw codecs on the market.

RED raw did not kill any Apple codecs as far as I could tell!!

And ProRes is still the most widely used in the industry from what I understand. Yet we continue to hear from ppl every now and then that it’s absolute doggy poo. Very amusing.

[Joek]

2 minutes ago, jonpais said:

That is hysterical. Prores RAW has only been out a few months and has already been implemented in Sony, Panasonic and Canon cinema cameras. It is up to NLEs to implement Prores RAW, not Apple. But yeah, Appke does desrce every bit that’s coming to them - all $850 billion dollars of it. ?

 

Actually if you watch the announcement video of prores raw by Atomos, the CEO briefly mentions that Apple has restricted prores raw for the first 6 months. The reason we have access to prores raw on so many cameras right now is because the Atomos Inferno supports it. Apple and Atomos released prores raw together. I know there's been a feature request since the beginning to get support in premiere, and it currently has over 700 votes. Yet Adobe has had no word on an update, and seeing that it's been 5 months... 

6 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I think there's more than enough room for a few new raw codecs on the market.

RED raw did not kill any Apple codecs as far as I could tell!!

Well RED Raw is only available on red cameras so.... Blackmagic raw has the potential to be way more widespread 

[jonpais]

2 minutes ago, Joek said:

Actually if you watch the announcement video of prores raw by Atomos, the CEO briefly mentions that Apple has restricted prores raw for the first 6 months. The reason we have access to prores raw on so many cameras right now is because the Atomos Inferno supports it. Apple and Atomos released prores raw together. I know there's been a feature request since the beginning to get support in premiere, and it currently has over 700 votes. Yet Adobe has had no word on an update, and seeing that it's been 5 months... 

Out of curiosity, how good is Adobe with updates?

[Anaconda_]

5 minutes ago, Joek said:

currently has over 700 votes

That's surprisingly low, if you consider how many people use Adobe products. 

[webrunner5]

3 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Out of curiosity, how good is Adobe with updates?

 

[Andrew Reid]

I am looking forward to all the "Pocket" rigs again

?

[Anaconda_]

22 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

So 10bit H.265 at the same bitrate as ProRes with Fuji F-LOG from a larger BSI 6K sensor with full pixel readout (possibly Samsung) has the potential to be just as good if not better.

But will be much more processor intensive during editing. ProRes plays back crazy smooth very easily, but 10 bit h.265 at these datarates will require a more powerful system.

22 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Now ask yourself if it is worth the hassle of the strange form factor, no articulated screen, need to rig it up with EVF, external bits and a stabiliser...

And then ask yourself if those are things you need ? 

EDIT: ^^ and it seems like you'll be rigging the Fuji anyway haha!

[majoraxis]

It would be wierd if Blackmagic can't implement BRAW on the Pocket 4K.  They have been developing BRAW for the past 2.5 years so maybe longer than the Pocket 4K has been in development (or maybe not) but for sure there was a significant amount of time when they were both being developed in parallel.  How could they designs a camera and not plan and test the components for compatibility before for finalizing the design?  This is such a key feature that will increase the volume of sales to make of the lack of margin due to the low price of the Pocket 4k that it would a serious engineering error if BRAW does not make it on to the Pocket 4k.

 

 

 

 

[mercer]

5 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I am looking forward to all the "Pocket" rigs again

?

And this is exactly what I find ridiculous about what the “dslr revolution” turned into. I am fairly certain that the owner of that rig could have just gone out and bought an FS5, an Ursa Pro, an EVA1 or a C200 and saved some money and pride. When I had the Micro, I hated myself for rigging it up this much...

[jonpais]

Grant Petty has already said there will be an update for the P4K.

5 minutes ago, majoraxis said:

It would be wierd if Blackmagic can't implement BRAW on the Pocket 4K.  They have been developing BRAW for the past 2.5 years so maybe longer than the Pocket 4K has been in development (or maybe not) but for sure there was a significant amount of time when they were both being developed in parallel.  How could they designs a camera and not plan and test the components for compatibility before for finalizing the design?  This is such a key feature that will increase the volume of sales to make of the lack of margin due to the low price of the Pocket 4k that it would a serious engineering error if BRAW does not make it on to the Pocket 4k.

 

 

 

 

 

[mercer]

5 minutes ago, majoraxis said:

It would be wierd if Blackmagic can't implement BRAW on the Pocket 4K.  They have been developing BRAW for the past 2.5 years so maybe longer than the Pocket 4K has been in development (or maybe not) but for sure there was a significant amount of time when they were both being developed in parallel.  How could they designs a camera and not plan and test the components for compatibility before for finalizing the design?  This is such a key feature that will increase the volume of sales to make of the lack of margin due to the low price of the Pocket 4k that it would a serious engineering error if BRAW does not make it on to the Pocket 4k.

 

 

 

 

They probably will but a little skepticism isn’t the worse thing in the world. I believe I am buying a camera based on the definitive given specs, if I get anything more out of it, then great, if not then I knew what I was buying... which was an issue with the Micro when it was released with the lack of global shutter that was promised at announcement.