Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[dbp]

I still have and love the original pocket, but does anyone else remember alot of the early footage from it? It was terrible! The good stuff was amazing, but much of it was worse than DSLR offerings at the time, mostly thanks to people being in over their heads with the grading.

So I'm reserving my judgement on the pocket 4K for a while. The early stuff looks solidly good, but I think the best is yet to come. 

[webrunner5]

2 hours ago, Emanuel said:

LOL : ) I saw you've asked for the vimeo copy... Have you already checked it there?

Ask and you shall receive! Looks no better or worse to me. Interesting. But it is a really nice video..

 

[jbCinC_12]

Another low light test from the P4K

[kye]

On 10/4/2018 at 7:32 PM, Anaconda_ said:

 

Damn that's nice.  I'm surprised to see it's the 2.8 zoom, which I assume is like most modern lenses and doesn't have much flavour, which means it's the BM side that is where the magic is coming from.

On 10/4/2018 at 9:15 PM, DBounce said:

Does anyone shoot anything but slow-mo?

Not in camera tests.

I shoot my videos and hardly any shots are slow-mo, but they're real videos about content, not tests

On 10/5/2018 at 9:45 AM, webrunner5 said:

Wow tough choice. Some things one is better, then it is worse. Highlight roll off wins on the PK4. A lot depends on the grading skills. I am sure the GH5 is less of a hassle though. Doesn't look like they would be too good as a A and B camera together. Not unless the GH5 is being recorded in ProRes.No surprise on that point though. I am pretty sure with good Coloring skills the PK4 would be the winner, but how many have that ability. Somehow the original BMPCC seemed more goof proof to get it somewhat right. I think this looks a bit harder to do. It just seems to lack something. But way too early to tell. I am sure there will be tweeks to it from BMD. For the money it still is hard to beat, but at a slower pace than some of the new kids on the block. The XT3 looks like the winner for a fast turn around. Boy if it just had IBIS in it.

The wolfcrow comparison was interesting, showing the GH5 and P4K limitations compared to ARRI.  However, if you capture everything then I think it's up to the grade, and grading is a huge amount more difficult than most people on YT even understand. 

Just look at Juan Melara vs the YT colourists who don't grade high-end stuff - they don't even use the same tools!!

17 hours ago, leslie said:

i'm expecting an australian company would make a camera for australian conditions

Unlike Sony who build cooling system that assumes there's a blizzard blowing directly onto the camera body!!

13 hours ago, DBounce said:

Exposure looks different in those shots also. So there is that. Honestly, with a little care they would look pretty dam well indistinguishable. 

Agreed.  

So many camera tests where the person doesn't even WB and then the armchair pixel peepers extrapolate it to the moon!

7 hours ago, majoraxis said:

Maybe it is implied, but I think the Blackmagic Cinema Camera 2.5k has equally good mojo and beats the OG Pocket in dynamic range, field of view and resolution and used, is less than the Pocket 4k.

It's also a very similar size (width I think) so BM has been quite sneaky in allowing us all to still think of the size of the original pocket..

5 hours ago, dbp said:

I still have and love the original pocket, but does anyone else remember alot of the early footage from it? It was terrible! The good stuff was amazing, but much of it was worse than DSLR offerings at the time, mostly thanks to people being in over their heads with the grading.

So I'm reserving my judgement on the pocket 4K for a while. The early stuff looks solidly good, but I think the best is yet to come. 

The best is absolutely yet to come, and I suspect that like many other low-end cinema cameras, the best will be on TV or the big screen, not on YT with the camera and lenses in the video description, so we won't have any clue.

That was one of my main beefs with the persecution that the XC10 and XC15 received - they are frequently seen on professional sets and footage from them is probably used regularly and no-one would ever be able to tell, meanwhile a few online tests by people who can't WB are pixel peeped to death and everyone thinks the footage is worse than the first iPhone...

[Emanuel]

6 minutes ago, kye said:

I'm surprised to see it's the 2.8 zoom, which I assume is like most modern lenses and doesn't have much flavour, which means it's the BM side that is where the magic is coming from.

On the spot. This camera brand has mojo...

 

There's (regular) MFT and MFT by Blackmagic.

Not the same camera format (better than calling it sensor/mount format ; -)

[kye]

Just now, Emanuel said:

On the spot. This camera brand has mojo...

in which case, I'm looking forward to seeing it used with more flavourful lenses..  the 0.95 Voitlanders, the Hellios 44M-4, etc etc...  even adding a Tiffen Black Pro Mist filter.  Damn that would be something!

Does anyone know if it does auto-exposure using ISO or SS?  I saw something about auto-iris in the specifications, but nothing else.

If it doesn't then that will give a lot of YouTubers unboxing shock!

[Kisaha]

I see some nostalgia here for the old pocket. It was an interesting camera and a great deal for the time, but it had dozens of issues that this new camera doesn't.

This one appeals to a bigger audience and a lot of young filmmakers (the 21st century kind of) will use these cameras like 16mm/8mm cameras of the past.

This one pushes the democratisation of film making a lot more than, let's say, Canon mirrorless cameras that cost more. 

[tonysss]

it looks like new users BMPCC4K , they discovered it SLOOOOOOWMOOOOOTION ?

everywhere slowmotion, I'm afraid to open the refrigerator, not to be there slowmotion....

[Chrad]

29 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

I see some nostalgia here for the old pocket. It was an interesting camera and a great deal for the time, but it had dozens of issues that this new camera doesn't.

This one appeals to a bigger audience and a lot of young filmmakers (the 21st century kind of) will use these cameras like 16mm/8mm cameras of the past.

This one pushes the democratisation of film making a lot more than, let's say, Canon mirrorless cameras that cost more. 

We'll see. People said the same about the original Pocket when it was being released. This one is plagued by the same issues that stopped that camera from becoming more widely used among the amateur filmmaker base: terrible battery life that necessitates rigging and enormous file sizes. 

It is a great advancement in bringing down the price for pro features like raw, but I don't see these cameras as democratising filmmaking as much as smartphones, or even more expensive ILCs.

[Andrew Reid]

Are any of these tests showing the difference between the Pocket 4K and GH5S?

Are any showing the actual benefits of RAW vs H.265?

It's all just eye candy.

I want to know what the actual image quality is relative to the competition (X-T3, GH5S, Z7, Magic Lantern and A7 III).

[Dan Wake]

which is it the max clean iso for this camera an is it enough for night shots in documentaries and narrative with artificial lights (excluding moonlight)? for example city shots at night... thx

[Dunjoye]

Colour science  !!

[deezid]

27 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Are any of these tests showing the difference between the Pocket 4K and GH5S?

Are any showing the actual benefits of RAW vs H.265?

It's all just eye candy.

I want to know what the actual image quality is relative to the competition (X-T3, GH5S, Z7, Magic Lantern and A7 III).

X-T3 vs GH5s vs Pocket 4K 

Would love to see:

• skin tones (to see smoothing)
• wide angle shots (to determine aliasing, moire and oversharpening) 
• dynamic range and low light tests (properly exposed and please no LUT comparison like wolfcrow did)
• sharpening and nr off or turned down as much as possible for best performance
• RAW (seems to have the more aliasing and moire issues as well as ugly noise) vs non-RAW

[A_Urquhart]

I think it's a bit unfair to expect absolutely top end images from a camera that is only now getting into the hands of customers. When we shoot a film, we test cameras, lenses, filters etc. Then we know what works, what doesn't and what limitations we need to work within. The P4K is still in that testing stage so comparing it to films that were shot with the OG Pocket many years after it was released don't really make sense.

 

Give it time.........

[Dan Wake]

can you do this test please?

(old video of a old model)

 

 

[Bioskop.Inc]

Getting a bit bored of the slow-mo & the RAW footage! Would really like to see what this camera can do all by itself - ProRes & No Log. I really think this would be the best way to see what this camera is all about & what they've put together. As far as no mojo, think that's all down to it being a 4K camera & the OG Pocket was S16 - they couldn't be more different beasts. To me 4K cameras just look like 4K cameras - not much to choose between them TBH. Yeah it's cheaper than the GH5 or whatever other camera, but it does do just 1 thing - the others take photos, so at least you've always got that handy option.

[Kisaha]

1 hour ago, Chrad said:

We'll see. People said the same about the original Pocket when it was being released. This one is plagued by the same issues that stopped that camera from becoming more widely used among the amateur filmmaker base: terrible battery life that necessitates rigging and enormous file sizes. 

It is a great advancement in bringing down the price for pro features like raw, but I don't see these cameras as democratising filmmaking as much as smartphones, or even more expensive ILCs.

Do you know how many Sony a6xx/A7x/Fuji cameras with terrible battery life have been sold already?

The previous one needed almost everything to be usable, this one just some batteries (I have half a dozen of those without even owning a Canon camera), plus they offer 5" touch screen monitor, dual ISO sensor (and similar in size with the competition, bigger than most m43 cameras at least), mini XLR (how great is that?), usb C, usb c SSD recording and great great user interface (second favorite after my NX!).

They go head to head with the competition, and then add some more.

It isn't a hybrid camera, it is a cheap video camera, if the touch AF is OK with the Olympus 12-100, can be a great run and gun camera also. IBIS? No, but none of my cameras have it now, and none of the C and F cameras (or EVA) has it, and they are the tools of choice for most of my jobs and most jobs I have been around. 

Plus, there is a license there for a full editing suit, that is very important for a tiny tiny business like mine, that I usually need a second editing desk for some months per year, and I hire someone to do some basic editing in my office.

My next hybrid system will have amazing AF and maybe IBIS (do not really care but it is a selling point at No4 or No5), this camera doesn't need them, especially for the price.

I would be waiting for real world reviews of course.

[A_Urquhart]

18 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Do you know how many Sony a6xx/A7x/Fuji cameras with terrible battery life have been sold already?

The previous one needed almost everything to be usable, this one just some batteries (I have half a dozen of those without even owning a Canon camera), plus they offer 5" touch screen monitor, dual ISO sensor (and similar in size with the competition, bigger than most m43 cameras at least), mini XLR (how great is that?), usb C, usb c SSD recording and great great user interface (second favorite after my NX!).

Yep, for years Sony's mirrorless cameras (a7s, A7r MKII's a6XXX series) all had bad battery life and that was without powering a fan to keep them cool. They overheated and became unusable for 5-10 minutes.

I know what I'd prefer.

[Chrad]

27 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Do you know how many Sony a6xx/A7x/Fuji cameras with terrible battery life have been sold already?

The previous one needed almost everything to be usable, this one just some batteries (I have half a dozen of those without even owning a Canon camera), plus they offer 5" touch screen monitor, dual ISO sensor (and similar in size with the competition, bigger than most m43 cameras at least), mini XLR (how great is that?), usb C, usb c SSD recording and great great user interface (second favorite after my NX!).

I agree that it's a little less quirky than the original, but I don't think by much. 

Yes, the sound situation is better, but you're still going to need to use an adaptor if you're not going the 3.5mm jack route. The more things change, the more things stay the same.

The battery situation here is truly horrific and shouldn't be downplayed. People are reporting 40 minutes or so. Blackmagic are once again shipping a broken design - the camera should take larger batteries or have been engineered in such a way as to save power if it is to be advertised as a 'pocket' camera. 

Yeah, you can carry around half a dozen batteries with you, but who wants to do that? Or more to the point, who wants to be changing batteries every 45 minutes (of usage, not shooting) in a run and gun situation?

The screen is great, but reportedly hard to see in bright sunlight, so depending on your shooting conditions you might need to buy a monitor anyway. 

The USB-C features are neat, but they require carrying and rigging up a power brick or hard drive. 

And once you're going to that kind of effort, we get back to what I was saying originally. You still need a lot of accessories and effort to make this thing practical, and that's what's going to stop it from being the kind of film-democratizing modern super 8 type thing for amateur enthusiasts. Needing to rig the thing up is prohibitively intimidating, expensive and slow and gets in the way of the fun of getting out and shooting.

For small production companies? Sure, it brings down the cost of professional codecs, particularly raw.

[Jocelyn Deguise]

11 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Ask and you shall receive! Looks no better or worse to me. Interesting. But it is a really nice video..

 

You lost me at Teal Orange... I'm not even watching this.