Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[Snuff]

My 0.64x speedbooster on the old Pocket is also not very tight, the lens with the booster can be rotated slightly around its axis. I wrote in support of Metabones and they sent me a replacement booster and it also did not sit tight. Then they sent me a new bayonet ring (camera side) for a booster with a tighter fit. But I have not tried it yet, I will put it when the Pocket 4K comes.

[Anaconda_]

1 hour ago, Shirozina said:

like the 18-35 a gap opens up at the top of the mount between the lens and body

This doesn’t happen for me with the Viltrox. There’s a little play, but less than there is on my GX80, and I don’t foresee it being a problem. 

28 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

If you have to correct everything in post, this increases the post time significantly

Maybe it’s because I’m using adapter lenses , but I’m having no problems with CA or distortion. 

I do have the cheap as chips MFT Meike 28mm f2.8 and that also works perfectly. Maybe wider, native lenses present a problem though

[Shirozina]

19 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

These are the comments I am expecting to see here. Really helpful, thanks.

The non-in camera corrections is a significant issue, as the camera seems less and less appropriate for run n gun. If you have to correct everything in post, this increases the post time significantly.

I am wondering if it is going to be fixed by a firmware update (supporting at least a few popular zoom lenses, like the Olympus 12-100mm I was considering), but it may not be possible at all (noone will give them the rights to do so).

Speedboosting a FF or APS-C lens should yield better results I guess.

Does IS/OIS works with this camera?

Why the monitor is unworkable outside? Is it too dim? I can only work with my Focus anyway, so it won't surprise me.

I'd worry about the amount of native distortion on a high range lens like the 12-100. Also the distortion gets less away from the wide setting so it's not a big problem in all situations. For a 'cinema' camera I'd rather do all corrections in post to be honest and I can't see why BM can't adopt the same idea as a lot of RAW apps like Adobe RAW and C1 and have their own lens correction profiles that you can apply in post or have a feature where you can calibrate your own lenses and save these for use.

I've tested the Viltrox .71 and 18-35 and it's OK unless you are shooting architecture.

Lens IOS on my 12-35 and 35-100 lumix lenses works but it's not massivley effective and I don't consider this a handheld camera - it will be on a tripod for my use.

The monitor is just not bright enough and also the screen is highly reflective so outside use is problematic without a hood or Loupe.

[BTM_Pix]

6 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Does IS/OIS works with this camera?

Why the monitor is unworkable outside? Is it too dim? I can only work with my Focus anyway, so it won't surprise me.

It detects if a lens has it and switches it on automatically, though you can switch it off in the menu and you'll need it because.....

The monitor.

The issue with the monitor, for me, is the lack of a tilt as much as the quality of it. 

If you want to shoot handheld with it, its quite a lump to hold up and front of you at eye level and the bigger screen is actually a drawback here as you'll be holding it slightly further away.

It means its not only uncomfortable but obviously inherently less stable.

With a tilt mechanism on the screen, you'd be able to cradle it at least which would make it far more viable.

I honestly do think that we will see a raft of 5" loupes appear on the market soon to address this as giving you that point of contact will make a huge difference.

Its a bit of a perfect negative storm really of form factor, fixed screen and no IBIS but it is what it is and I'm sure workarounds will come but, for me at least, an EVF is going to be the way to go.

It would be nice to actually have an option to switch the monitor off totally if you are using an EVF as its pretty superfluous at that point and anything that reduces power consumption and heat generation on this camera would be welcome.

 

[Shirozina]

3 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

This doesn’t happen for me with the Viltrox. There’s a little play, but less than there is on my GX80, and I don’t foresee it being a problem. 

Maybe it’s because I’m using adapter lenses , but I’m having no problems with CA or distortion. 

I do have the cheap as chips MFT Meike 28mm f2.8 and that also works perfectly. Maybe wider, native lenses present a problem though

Viltrox QC seems to be quite variable on their mounts. I have both the speed booster and non speed booster versions and one is tighter than the other. My first non speedbooster version was so tight I couldn't mount some lenses on it ( it went in the bin). All native M43 lenses rely on in camera correction for distortion and CA so this shouldn't be a problem for non native lenses. Again the term 'cinema camera' tends to mean it's not going to do much other than give you whats on the sensor and nothing else. 

[JordanWright]

The first 0.64x metabones I had was very loose camera side but when I bought a replacement one, it had a gasket on the back and was much tighter. no issues so far on my Gh5 or Pocket 4k. It's disappointing how hit-or-miss metabones tolerances seem to be, especially for the price of the adapter. I also had to adjust infinity focus on all 3 metabones adapters I've had previously.

[Shirozina]

36 minutes ago, JordanWright said:

The first 0.64x metabones I had was very loose camera side but when I bought a replacement one, it had a gasket on the back and was much tighter. no issues so far on my Gh5 or Pocket 4k. It's disappointing how hit-or-miss metabones tolerances seem to be, especially for the price of the adapter. I also had to adjust infinity focus on all 3 metabones adapters I've had previously.

Same here with metabones - all 4 of mine needed adjusting. The culprit seems to be the rear mount's inner surface which is roughly machined and either needs shimming or further machining/grinding to get the correct thickness and flatness. The body itself is very well made as is the lens flange.

[JordanWright]

btw I RMA'd my pocket 4k because of the battery door and they fixed it, all working well now. They fixed and shipped back the same day.

[Emanuel]

 

[wyrlyn]

anyone would recommend a cheap (under 50 usd) external monitor that has small screen (around 3.5 inch)? i would use it for screen tilting only.

[AaronChicago]

@wyrlyn check out Feelworld 4.5”. It’s like $130.

[Andrew Reid]

4 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

It detects if a lens has it and switches it on automatically, though you can switch it off in the menu and you'll need it because.....

The monitor.

The issue with the monitor, for me, is the lack of a tilt as much as the quality of it. 

If you want to shoot handheld with it, its quite a lump to hold up and front of you at eye level and the bigger screen is actually a drawback here as you'll be holding it slightly further away.

It means its not only uncomfortable but obviously inherently less stable.

With a tilt mechanism on the screen, you'd be able to cradle it at least which would make it far more viable.

I honestly do think that we will see a raft of 5" loupes appear on the market soon to address this as giving you that point of contact will make a huge difference.

Its a bit of a perfect negative storm really of form factor, fixed screen and no IBIS but it is what it is and I'm sure workarounds will come but, for me at least, an EVF is going to be the way to go.

It would be nice to actually have an option to switch the monitor off totally if you are using an EVF as its pretty superfluous at that point and anything that reduces power consumption and heat generation on this camera would be welcome.

Bit worried about the screen really.

As it's a touch screen, a loupe is going to disable a lot of the menus and controls. There is no d-pad or joystick. Is it possible to navigate the menus without the touch screen?

I've heard people describe the screen as "good"... For me a "good screen" is one you can actually see. If it goes invisible outdoors and you can't tilt it, it's not a good screen

Blackmagic have the guts of a great cinema camera here - and the good workflow to go with it (Resolve). Why could they not have spent more than 5 minutes on the body design? Just basic common sense stuff...

1. With such a large body and high power requirements, why only have room for one battery? Why not have a vertical grip? With it being a Canon fit, I wonder if any of the Canon DSLR vertical battery grips fit? Why not use a 1D X size battery under the base?

2. Screen should have been articulated... surely

3. The hotshoe should have had contacts for a slot-in EVF - pretty sure Olympus has one they could have made it compatible with, powered by the cam.

4. Not talking about adding too much cost or complexity here, just the basics... Like if you have a battery door, make sure it stays shut properly?!

5. They are on their 4th generation of camera now... So no excuses for badly thought out half baked solutions

6. Do a $2500 version next. Use the classic slim Sony NEX 7 form factor - twin dials, corner EVF, tilting screen, slim body, IBIS, power efficient processor, XQD card slot, lighter, that would be a major winner.

[Chrad]

I'd trade IBIS for a proper 4mm MFT filter stack. 

[BTM_Pix]

29 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Bit worried about the screen really.

As it's a touch screen, a loupe is going to disable a lot of the menus and controls. There is no d-pad or joystick. Is it possible to navigate the menus without the touch screen?

I've heard people describe the screen as "good"... For me a "good screen" is one you can actually see. If it goes invisible outdoors and you can't tilt it, it's not a good screen

Blackmagic have the guts of a great cinema camera here - and the good workflow to go with it (Resolve). Why could they not have spent more than 5 minutes on the body design? Just basic common sense stuff...

1. With such a large body and high power requirements, why only have room for one battery? Why not have a vertical grip? With it being a Canon fit, I wonder if any of the Canon DSLR vertical battery grips fit? Why not use a 1D X size battery under the base?

2. Screen should have been articulated... surely

3. The hotshoe should have had contacts for a slot-in EVF - pretty sure Olympus has one they could have made it compatible with, powered by the cam.

4. Not talking about adding too much cost or complexity here, just the basics... Like if you have a battery door, make sure it stays shut properly?!

5. They are on their 4th generation of camera now... So no excuses for badly thought out half baked solutions

6. Do a $2500 version next. Use the classic slim Sony NEX 7 form factor - twin dials, corner EVF, tilting screen, slim body, IBIS, power efficient processor, XQD card slot, lighter, that would be a major winner.

I think for me its got enough off screen controls to be usable with a loupe but certainly a flip up loupe would solve it.

Not that its a problem that should have needed solving to be honest.

The justifications for some of this stuff being related to the price of the camera are a bit of a double edged sword in my opinion as lets go absolutely wild and say a tilting screen would have  added £100 to the price of it, would anyone have baulked at a price of £1200 instead of £1100?

I seriously doubt it, particularly as to correct the issue it causes is going to cost a lot more than £100

And its not like BM haven't got experience of how awkward it is shooting handheld with a camera that has a large fixed screen even when its on a rig.

So to use this camera handheld you are going to have to have a rig of some sorts (and still have a strain because of the size of the screen affects the mounting position as in this pic and every other pic of someone using a BMCC without an EVF) or hope someone comes up with a 5" loupe.

All for the sake of a tilting bracket and some cable that we all would have happily given them a tidy bit of profit on.

In reality, this camera isn't a boosted up version of the original Pocket, its actually a slimmed down version of the Cinema Camera/Production Camera.

The Canon DSLR battery grip modification was something that I was thinking about but the heat coming off the bottom if you don't have free space underneath it would concern me. 

I had it sat on my desk switched on for about 30 minutes yesterday and the area around the tripod mounting point was pretty hot to the touch.

 

 

[Anaconda_]

17 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I had it sat on my desk switched on for about 30 minutes

How did you do that? Was it plugged in? ? 

[BTM_Pix]

4 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

How did you do that? Was it plugged in? ? 

Absolutely !

[Shirozina]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Bit worried about the screen really.

As it's a touch screen, a loupe is going to disable a lot of the menus and controls. There is no d-pad or joystick. Is it possible to navigate the menus without the touch screen?

I've heard people describe the screen as "good"... For me a "good screen" is one you can actually see. If it goes invisible outdoors and you can't tilt it, it's not a good screen

Blackmagic have the guts of a great cinema camera here - and the good workflow to go with it (Resolve). Why could they not have spent more than 5 minutes on the body design? Just basic common sense stuff...

1. With such a large body and high power requirements, why only have room for one battery? Why not have a vertical grip? With it being a Canon fit, I wonder if any of the Canon DSLR vertical battery grips fit? Why not use a 1D X size battery under the base?

2. Screen should have been articulated... surely

3. The hotshoe should have had contacts for a slot-in EVF - pretty sure Olympus has one they could have made it compatible with, powered by the cam.

4. Not talking about adding too much cost or complexity here, just the basics... Like if you have a battery door, make sure it stays shut properly?!

5. They are on their 4th generation of camera now... So no excuses for badly thought out half baked solutions

6. Do a $2500 version next. Use the classic slim Sony NEX 7 form factor - twin dials, corner EVF, tilting screen, slim body, IBIS, power efficient processor, XQD card slot, lighter, that would be a major winner.

It's a £1000 cinema camera FFS - you get to add the rest yourself if you want or need it. They put a good sensor and codec options inc RAW in a body with connectors to power it and get data out and did it for an absolute steal of a price. No excuses for badly thought out half baked solutions.......?

Hang on - this list of gripes is a wind up right. I mean you can't actually be serious can you?

[Andrew Reid]

There are battery bases for the Pocket 4K, I wonder if they even knew about the fan outlet when they designed those?

https://www.3dbroadcastsales.com/core-swx-pb-edge-powerbase-for-blackmagic-pocket-cinema-camera-4k-core-pbe-bmpc4

Does it get pretty hot then?

31 minutes ago, Shirozina said:

It's a £1000 cinema camera FFS - you get to add the rest yourself if you want or need it.

That's not the real price though is it?

By your own admission, the screen is "good" and "unusable outdoors". So, erm, screen's shit then! There's distortion with the Pana/Oly native M43 lenses and the battery situation is a joke.

So add a monitor, add the power base or v-lock battery.... and to support / mount all that you need a cage and possibly more. All that is another £1000 to do it well.

Quote

They put a good sensor and codec options inc RAW in a body with connectors to power it and get data out and did it for an absolute steal of a price. No excuses for badly thought out half baked solutions.......?

Hang on - this list of gripes is a wind up right. I mean you can't actually be serious can you?

You had a lot of gripes of your own on the previous page.

So you can't have a go at another user for his gripes can you!?

[Anaconda_]

That looks cool, but I’d rather go with a VMount on the back of a rig. This thing is going to make it harder to handhold without an extra support, so doesn’t offer much of an advantage. 

Mine doesn’t get hot, a little warm maybe, but no more than the front end of my LS300 - which also has vents by the sensor. 

That looks cool, but I’d rather go with a VMount on the back of a rig. This thing is going to make it harder to handhold without an extra support, so doesn’t offer much of an advantage. 

Mine doesn’t get hot, a little warm maybe, but no more than the front end of my LS300 - which also has vents by the sensor. 

[BTM_Pix]

27 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

There are battery bases for the Pocket 4K, I wonder if they even knew about the fan outlet when they designed those?

https://www.3dbroadcastsales.com/core-swx-pb-edge-powerbase-for-blackmagic-pocket-cinema-camera-4k-core-pbe-bmpc4

Does it get pretty hot then?

They are an existing product that they are re-purposing as a BM4K product by virtue of adding an LPE-6 dummy battery, hence why it has a less than aesthetically pleasing fit to the actual design of the camera 

It was warm enough for me to notice but short of saying "Ow fuck" when I touched it.

But I wouldn't want to mount anything in the way though.