Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[anonim]

1 minute ago, matthere said:

They do differ in favour of the Arri for sure, but my thoughts in posting were that the differences are smaller than I imagined they would be, considering the saving.

Actually, I expected that differences will be barely visible on laptop  (But, of course, my opinion usually is not at all too valuable.) For example, there are some youtube comparisons between GH5(s) and Arri Mini that, for my eyes, somehow manage to make looks even more similar

I'd be so glad if the same procedure was applied with CinemaDNG files from P4K...

[majoraxis]

I thought the Natural Rec709 vl LUT did a good job of making the Pocket 4k closer to the look of the Alexia Mini - that said there is a dynamic range difference that is apparent in day light and makes the Pocket  4k  image harder and more contrasty looking to my eye. I actually thought the Pocket 4k competed nicely for the night shot, as either would do IMHO. I think Sage can get even closer once he makes his LUT available for the Pocket 4k.

What I was most impressed with is that BRAW did not seem to show objectionable softness due to the (b)raw "processing", which is of course a contradiction of terms.

All and all BRAW is not what is hold back the Pocket 4k image - it is the sensor's lower dynamic range.  There is a m4/3 Fairchild sensor that would fit nicely in the Pocket 4k body, which offers an additional 1 and 1/2 stop of dynamic range (14.5 stop and dual 11 bit dacs), so hopefully there will be a new m4/3 camera Blackmagic Camera based on the Fairchild sensor in the (near?) future.

[anonim]

Actually, and BTW regarding last question X vs Arri, why not to cheer here also remarkable achievement of our great com-eoshd member Sage

 

[matthere]

@anonimYou have the most valuable opinion when selecting what you need for your own images ?

[anonim]

34 minutes ago, majoraxis said:

What I was most impressed with is that BRAW did not seem to show objectionable softness due to the (b)raw "processing", which is of course a contradiction of terms.

I'm afraid that there could be some sharpening compensation at work to neutralize such compression softness?

[A_Urquhart]

While there seems to be quite a few complaints about BRAW from heavy forum users, I've now worked on two high profile Ad campaigns that have used BRAW and haven't heard a DP complain about it. At the same time, I've spoken first hand to VFX guys and girls that have said that they are really happy with the new codec. 

Here's a few pics of the P4K being used as a B Cam on a recent car ad for those interested.

 

 

[Emanuel]

Yeah, yeah... sorry to joke a bit ; ) what firmware version? LOL : -)

[Jonesy Jones]

6 hours ago, anonim said:

Thanks for posting... But, frankly, I expected that difference seen on laptop monitor with HD resolution will be less noticeable (i.e. I assumed that comparative qualities of Arri are becoming very noticeable visible just at big screen reproduction)... At least for my eyes, P4K looks waaay harsher in comparison, especially in (second) example in front of the fence where they are at closest matching (in first example Arri was not even properly focused).

Not sure what I'm missing but after the grade they're almost identical. Like sure, I can tell, but I'll take the $59,000 savings with the P4k any day. 

[Coiii]

On 4/2/2019 at 4:27 AM, seanzzxx said:

The calculation is very simple. Let's say you use a 50mm. Your metabones reduces the crop by 0.64. 50*0.64=32.

Your Pocket has a crop factor of (in full sensor width) 1.88. 1.88*32=60mm (rounded down). That's pretty close to the full frame equivalent already, but your new crop is (60/50) 1.2 times. So if for some reason you absolutely NEED to shoot at exactly the same equivalent focal length all the time (instead of just framing your shot slightly different), you can take your full frame lenses and divide them by 1.2. 50/1.2=42 equivalent perspective (rounded up). You could do that for all lenses. You want to match your 14mm on full frame's perspective with the Pocket+speedbooster? 14/1.2=12mm, etc.

 

Does that make sense?

Thank you so much.

So, for obtain any full frame equivalent I need to multiply the lens focal by 0.64 and then by 1.88?

For example for a 24mm

24*0.64=15.36

15.36*1.88=28.8 

Si it's safe to say that the 24mm will act similar to a 30mm lens? Thats awesome! This will be my first time using the Metabones Speedboster ?

[Newway12]

5 hours ago, A_Urquhart said:

While there seems to be quite a few complaints about BRAW from heavy forum users, I've now worked on two high profile Ad campaigns that have used BRAW and haven't heard a DP complain about it. At the same time, I've spoken first hand to VFX guys and girls that have said that they are really happy with the new codec. 

Here's a few pics of the P4K being used as a B Cam on a recent car ad for those interested.

 

 

What lense is that?

[Kisaha]

What is your opinion about this?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1443625-REG/angelbird_mp_pcc4k_512ek256c_match_pack_for_blackmagic.html

I already own a T5 512GB and I will probably order another CFast Sandisk 128GB and probably a fast SD card.

What is the maximum bitrate i can shoot with those, and are those enough for a full day of docu work?

and this as a NPF solution? https://cvp.com/product/hawk-woods-dv-bm4-power-adaptor

[tonysss]

12 hours ago, matthere said:

Braw 3: 1 dobře drží na srovnání tohoto chlapa.

 

 

 Highlight Roll Off P4K is terrible ?  (and I'm watching it on my cell phone, no big screen!)  the dynamic range is visibly worse than the old BM

and it is unnecessarily contrasting in skin tones.  I won't sell my old BM! 

until the Fairchild sensor returns!  

I haven't liked anything from the new p4k so far, and unfortunately it will remain so.  

The best thing you can do is buy a BMMCC for a few dollars second hand

[wyrlyn]

 

just WOW. ?

[Shirozina]

21 minutes ago, tonysss said:

 Highlight Roll Off P4K is terrible ?  (and I'm watching it on my cell phone, no big screen!)  the dynamic range is visibly worse than the old BM

and it is unnecessarily contrasting in skin tones.  I won't sell my old BM! 

until the Fairchild sensor returns!  

I haven't liked anything from the new p4k so far, and unfortunately it will remain so.  

The best thing you can do is buy a BMMCC for a few dollars second hand

As someone who owns the BMPCC and the P4k I can tell you the highlight roll-off is not terrible on the P4k nor is the DR worse than the BMPCC nor are skintones unnecessarily contrasty - but what do I know as I'm not looking at it via youtube on a cellphone?

47 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

What is your opinion about this?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1443625-REG/angelbird_mp_pcc4k_512ek256c_match_pack_for_blackmagic.html

I already own a T5 512GB and I will probably order another CFast Sandisk 128GB and probably a fast SD card.

What is the maximum bitrate i can shoot with those, and are those enough for a full day of docu work?

and this as a NPF solution? https://cvp.com/product/hawk-woods-dv-bm4-power-adaptor

CFast is expensive for data so why not just get a 1TB T5 ? I've got a few external battery solutions but the best by far (and the cheapest)is a cheap NPF sled with a dummy battery from amazon/ebay. I  shortened the power lead to tidy it up and mounted the sled to the top of a smallrig 1/2 cage. With a generic F970 battery I get 2.5 hours recording time when writing to the external T5.  

[Kisaha]

Truth is happening only online, preferably watched on a phone. This is where we live now!

[tonysss]

21 minutes ago, Shirozina said:

but what do I know as I'm not looking at it via youtube on a cellphone

 

but on mobile phone Alexa is still beautiful, it really is not a small screen ? 

 

I had a P4K loan to make sure it's just not that and it's worse for me than old sensors ? 

and I don't think I have this opinion myself

[deezid]

56 minutes ago, tonysss said:

 Highlight Roll Off P4K is terrible ?  (and I'm watching it on my cell phone, no big screen!)  the dynamic range is visibly worse than the old BM

and it is unnecessarily contrasting in skin tones.  I won't sell my old BM! 

until the Fairchild sensor returns!  

I haven't liked anything from the new p4k so far, and unfortunately it will remain so.  

The best thing you can do is buy a BMMCC for a few dollars second hand

He was using ISO1250 plus Braw.
So basically no highlight dr + plasticky skin.

28 minutes ago, Shirozina said:

As someone who owns the BMPCC and the P4k I can tell you the highlight roll-off is not terrible on the P4k nor is the DR worse than the BMPCC nor are skintones unnecessarily contrasty - but what do I know as I'm not looking at it via youtube on a cellphone?

By this video it actually is.
But seems like Matteo ignores any trick anyway:

• shooting cDNG instead of Braw
• avoid shooting at ISO1250 in contrasty situations
• grading in another colorspace like ARRI log C or IPP2 for way nicer roll-off (RCM)

[Shirozina]

46 minutes ago, deezid said:

He was using ISO1250 plus Braw.
So basically no highlight dr + plasticky skin.

By this video it actually is.
But seems like Matteo ignores any trick anyway:

• shooting cDNG instead of Braw
• avoid shooting at ISO1250 in contrasty situations
• grading in another colorspace like ARRI log C or IPP2 for way nicer roll-off (RCM)

If he's shooting at 1250 ISO then he's loosing a stop of DR as it's the higher gain setting but using either CDNG or BRAW the ISO setting in either range shouldn't make a difference as it's just a metadata tag and is not changing the data like it is in ProRes where it's baked. So I presume you mean avoid using the higher gain setting in contrasty situations. 

58 minutes ago, tonysss said:

 

but on mobile phone Alexa is still beautiful, it really is not a small screen ? 

 

I had a P4K loan to make sure it's just not that and it's worse for me than old sensors ? 

and I don't think I have this opinion myself

Yes I must change my HDR 4k reference monitor for a mobile phone when grading.

The BMPCC looks different to the P4k for sure and you may for various reason prefer that look but it certainly isn't 'technicaly' better in any measurable way.

[Kisaha]

1 hour ago, Shirozina said:CFast is expensive for data so why not just get a 1TB T5 ? I've got a few external battery solutions but the best by far (and the cheapest)is a cheap NPF sled with a dummy battery from amazon/ebay. I  shortened the power lead to tidy it up and mounted the sled to the top of a smallrig 1/2 cage. With a generic F970 battery I get 2.5 hours recording time when writing to the external T5.  

 

For convinience, and the AngelBird match pack (512GB SSD and 256 CFast) is only 399.9$ (more in Europe, but everything is more here).

[Jonesy Jones]

I've just discovered the secret to success in this industry -- be very critical of the image made by any camera other than Alexa, and you are instantly a top notch dp in the class of Roger Deakins.

Here is a list of terms to help your complaints sound more legit:

• Lacks DR (dynamic range)
• Poor highlight roll off
• Contrasty
• Not contrasty
• Bad motion cadence
• Too digital
• Too flat
• Plasticy
• Too noisy
• Too clean
• Poor focus roll off
• Macro blocking
• Micro jitters
• Sucky suck suck

Now, if those alone aren't getting you the status you deserve, try these ones. They almost sound made up, but no one will ever question you and will repeat them until they become an actual thing.

• Sharpening halos
• Pixel fringing
• Quasar vignette 
• Noise population ratio
• Telecentric converters

And if you find you need to take it even further, take a screenshot of footage that you put zero production value in, like a chair in a poorly lit office, magnify 300 percent, and then... wait for it......... wait for it......... draw a friggin arrow to the pixel in question.

I'll have plenty more suggestions in my upcoming mzed class...

 

Seriously, there is a clear world of difference between being a negative Nelly and simply recognizing a camera's pros and cons. ALL CAMERAS have pros and cons. Looking at them in those terms is about making decisions and problem solving , not complaining.