Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[TJD]

Deezid Care to share some workflow suggestions pls? Transform, color space, gamut?

 

thank you 

TJ

[osmanovic]

Hello everybody,

I expected the new Blackmagic Pocket 4K to be slightly better than the old one, but I was wrong and returned the camera. The old Blackmagic Pocket simply has better image quality. Colorgrading works better, many different colorstyles are possible.  The Pocket 4K somehow has a video look, it has a lot of noise in the shade and is very big without any special advantages. It's plastic.  The display is nice, but I don't use it anyway, because I can connect another screen and move it in any direction. In practice, it's only used for menu. So not really an argument. More FPS is also good... but everything together is not an argument if the picture quality hardly differs from my iPhone. Probably because iPhone also has a Sony sensor?

Are you of the same conviction?

Friendly greetings.

[kye]

11 hours ago, osmanovic said:

Hello everybody,

I expected the new Blackmagic Pocket 4K to be slightly better than the old one, but I was wrong and returned the camera. The old Blackmagic Pocket simply has better image quality. Colorgrading works better, many different colorstyles are possible.  The Pocket 4K somehow has a video look, it has a lot of noise in the shade and is very big without any special advantages. It's plastic.  The display is nice, but I don't use it anyway, because I can connect another screen and move it in any direction. In practice, it's only used for menu. So not really an argument. More FPS is also good... but everything together is not an argument if the picture quality hardly differs from my iPhone. Probably because iPhone also has a Sony sensor?

Are you of the same conviction?

Friendly greetings.

Welcome to the forums

You'll find lots of people on here are quite fond of their P4K, but there are a number of people who would agree with you that the P4K has a more "video" look and prefer the older BM cameras saying they're more "filmic" or "cinematic".

I proposed a test where someone shoots some similar footage on old and new and we try and make the new one look like the old one, to see if it can be done, and if so, what adjustments did the trick.  Unfortunately the people who have access to the new and old cameras are busy and haven't yet had the time to film the test footage, so we don't yet know.

What kind of films are you making?

[Mattias Burling]

12 hours ago, osmanovic said:

Hello everybody,

I expected the new Blackmagic Pocket 4K to be slightly better than the old one, but I was wrong and returned the camera. 

Are you of the same conviction?

Friendly greetings.

Yup, same experience. I wanted nothing more than to love the BMCCii.. cough.. I mean BMPCC4K. 
And there was a lot to love like handling, controls, screen, braw, window mode, slowmo, I can make this list really really long.

But there was one single thing where it imo lacked compared to my Micro: Image.

I spent several days shooting side by sides. Then hours in Final Cut and Resolve tweaking and grading. 
The image from the newer camera is nice, no doubt. But the old sensor was just so much better in my eyes. I could spend an hour grading pocket footage to get it good looking. And then on the corresponding Micro clip I just threw on one of my custom presets or even just slap on Filmconvert and it was spot on immediately. It kinda reminded me of the A7sii. Everything was perfect on paper, handling it was fine, footage looked great on the back display but then.. meh..

I packed up the bmpcc4k and shipped it it out to its new owner yesterday. The extra cash went into some more parts for my Micro.
Will make a few different setups that I can flip between depending on the shooting scenario. 
 

[StHubbins]

 

4 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Yup, same experience. I wanted nothing more than to love the BMCCii.. cough.. I mean BMPCC4K. 
And there was a lot to love like handling, controls, screen, braw, window mode, slowmo, I can make this list really really long.

But there was one single thing where it imo lacked compared to my Micro: Image.

I spent several days shooting side by sides. Then hours in Final Cut and Resolve tweaking and grading. 
The image from the newer camera is nice, no doubt. But the old sensor was just so much better in my eyes. I could spend an hour grading pocket footage to get it good looking. And then on the corresponding Micro clip I just threw on one of my custom presets or even just slap on Filmconvert and it was spot on immediately. It kinda reminded me of the A7sii. Everything was perfect on paper, handling it was fine, footage looked great on the back display but then.. meh..

I packed up the bmpcc4k and shipped it it out to its new owner yesterday. The extra cash went into some more parts for my Micro.
Will make a few different setups that I can flip between depending on the shooting scenario. 
 

As a passionate owner of the first BMPCC, the Micro, and the Pocket 4K, I'd have to say... it's just a different approach. I LOVE much of my Pocket/Micro footage. I mean, LOVE. But... there's plenty of footage from those cameras I DON'T love. Anything without a ton of light, or incredibly fast lenses... the footage is ehh. I mean, that which is even salvageable is ehh. And most of it is not even salvageable. The original cameras are amazing, provided you have tons of light. If not, they're pretty much terrible.

The P4K can obviously capture 10x the amount of usable footage that the old ones can. Bright light, low light, no light, it's all good. And yes, the look straight out of the camera, on sharp modern lenses, looks video-ish. Blegh. But then I started using interesting lenses on it, and the magic came right back. If you want "filmic", do NOT shoot the P4K with clinical, modern glass. I am LOVING the combo of the inexpensive Kamlan 25mm F0.95 on the new Pocket. The creaminess and softness of the old Pocket returns (but with more resolution). Add grain in FilmConvert, and I'm back in love.

In short... the old cameras had "mojo" from the sensor, but you had to add sharpness and light from the lens. The new cameras have sharpness and light, but you need to add "mojo" with the lenses.

I love them all, and am keeping them all

[deezid]

Shoot this camera with some smoother lenses like the Rokinon Cine DS lenses with a diffusion filter on top, choose cDNG if possible with sharpening turned down to 0 in Resolve, convert to IPP2 or Arri colorspace to save highlights and strong reds and blues from clipping.

 

Profit

Looks fantastic to my eyes.

[photographer-at-large]

1 hour ago, StHubbins said:

As a passionate owner of the first BMPCC, the Micro, and the Pocket 4K, I'd have to say... it's just a different approach. I LOVE much of my Pocket/Micro footage. I mean, LOVE. But... there's plenty of footage from those cameras I DON'T love. Anything without a ton of light, or incredibly fast lenses... the footage is ehh. I mean, that which is even salvageable is ehh. And most of it is not even salvageable. The original cameras are amazing, provided you have tons of light. If not, they're pretty much terrible.

The P4K can obviously capture 10x the amount of usable footage that the old ones can. Bright light, low light, no light, it's all good. And yes, the look straight out of the camera, on sharp modern lenses, looks video-ish. Blegh. But then I started using interesting lenses on it, and the magic came right back. If you want "filmic", do NOT shoot the P4K with clinical, modern glass. I am LOVING the combo of the inexpensive Kamlan 25mm F0.95 on the new Pocket. The creaminess and softness of the old Pocket returns (but with more resolution). Add grain in FilmConvert, and I'm back in love.

In short... the old cameras had "mojo" from the sensor, but you had to add sharpness and light from the lens. The new cameras have sharpness and light, but you need to add "mojo" with the lenses.

I love them all, and am keeping them all

I can't find Kamlam 25mm....do you mean the Mitakon 25mm 0.95 ?

 

[StHubbins]

Yes! My bad, it's the Zhongyi Mitakon 25mm 0.95.  It's awesome. Oddly, it also has the coolest box I've ever gotten with a lens.

It's 25, but because the sensor of the new Pocket is much bigger than the old one, it's kind of equivalent to a 20mm field-of-view on the old one.

[Mattias Burling]

1 hour ago, StHubbins said:

The P4K can obviously capture 10x the amount of usable footage that the old ones can. Bright light, low light, no light, it's all good. 

Not my experience, I got better looking footage with the older sensor in all lighting conditions. Specially in dim light (I shoot a lot of murky interiors and lights is not an option).

But its great that others like it and I'm happy for you 

The more that gets to enjoy the Blackmagics the better. I might buy one again in a year or so when they can be had cheap on the used market.

One really positive thing I can say about the new sensor is that SOOC with a in camera LUT looks very good. 

[StHubbins]

43 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Not my experience, I got better looking footage with the older sensor in all lighting conditions. Specially in dim light (I shoot a lot of murky interiors and lights is not an option).

But its great that others like it and I'm happy for you 

The more that gets to enjoy the Blackmagics the better. I might buy one again in a year or so when they can be had cheap on the used market.

One really positive thing I can say about the new sensor is that SOOC with a in camera LUT looks very good. 

I will say the classic BM cams have more of a "romantic" look straight out of the camera. To use guitar amp terminology, the BMPCC4K is more of a "transparent" image, clean and detailed, that you can put any look you want on after the fact. With the OG Pocket/Micro, you have one choice - "that look"... but damn, that look is sexy as hell, and I'll love it forever  

By the way, as a fanboy note, I've enjoyed your videos for years, you're my favorite camera reviewer!

[Mattias Burling]

Again not my experience. The new sensor is tricky to get different looks on because it behaved very weirdly compared to other cameras Ive tried. Just a personal experience.

I guess they are simply different and suitable for different styles. Simply not my cup of tea and others milage may vary.

[osmanovic]

I didn't mean the sharpness (the old pocket and micro, is also surprisingly good in the sharpness) but the colours, the highlights, the contrast. This seems to be more organic or more natural with the old sensor. So the internal process, the conversion from analog to digital, is fantastic. 
Too much digital, makes it look video, and that's the case with the new Pocket. The digital look, doesn't change after colorgrading, it remains there because the internal process in the camera (the conversion from analog to digital) is no longer manipulable afterwards, because it comes from the sensor as it comes.

Is my statement so correct?

[Emanuel]

Frankly, too much nitpicking pixel peeping...

Join the black bars and enjoy the part in-between and realistically closer to the senses no matter the customary blah blah

...before the classic has come from local store camera exchange. Looks like when sinners die to born Saints 1 minute later if so.

 

[webrunner5]

oops.

[Snowfun]

Pocket 4k joins The 400 Club.

Blackmagic should add it to their marketing. 

[Mattias Burling]

I agree, I haven't pixel peeped or nitpicked because it gets me nowhere. My tip is to choose the tool that suites you the best over all. It's not rocket science and should be fairly obvious.

Endlessly going over minor details kills creativity for me. Anyway, since I no longer own this camera I will leave the thread for those that do.

[Anaconda_]

58 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Anyway, since I no longer own this camera I will leave the thread for those that do.

If everyone thought this way, the thread would be like 7 pages long. 

I'm looking forward to seeing your comparison video - if you're working on one?

[thephoenix]

 

[Kisaha]

2 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

If everyone thought this way, the thread would be like 7 pages long. 

From the 400 pages there are less than 50 with useful information, maybe it should be that way. 

[Anaconda_]

I didn't say it would be a bad thing