Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[Samin]

5 hours ago, SR said:

Viltrox EF-m2 0.71x 

Tokina 28-70mm f/2.6

Possibly Sigma 18-35 1.8.

I've bought the Viltrox EF-M2 as well just in case, I just hope it would be compatible with bmpcc4k, though I don't have any EF lens at the moment.

[Anaconda_]

1 hour ago, Samin said:

I've bought the Viltrox EF-M2 as well just in case, I just hope it would be compatible with bmpcc4k, though I don't have any EF lens at the moment.

Me too, although I can use it on the cameras I already have, so if it doesn't work for some reason on the p4k, it's not so much of an issue for me. I also have a metabones adapter with no glass, so I image I can also use that on the p4k with no problems. If both adapters work, I'll essentially double my lens collection, giving each lens a little further reach with the non speedbooster.

As for lenses, I'll mostly be using the Sigma 18-35 1.8 and Canon 50mm 1.8. They're both great lenses and give me all the focal lengths I need with lots of light. Especially if I keep both adapters with me. When I need something more discreet, I'll more than likely be using my trusty old Sigma 30mm 1.4 with the speedbooter. I find for holidays and more walk about kind of stuff, it's the perfect focal length and looks great, even with the worst lighting you can imagine. Especially since the booster makes it f1.0.

[cantsin]

9 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Well I plan on using my old standby Panny14-45mm , and the later G7 kit lens 14-140mm.

Both are suboptimal lenses on Blackmagic cameras because their optical designs are based on software geometry, vignetting and color fringing correction which the Pocket does not provide. In addition, they're autofocus lenses that are clumsy to use on BM cameras with their push autofocus. In addition, they do not resolve 4K.

For best image quality and handling, I would use manual lenses (Voigtlander, Veydra, SLR Magic, Samyang).

[Axel]

To say that those Pana/Oly system lenses with very soft fly-by-wire focus (usually ideal for fast and quiet AF) are 'suboptimal' is way too weak. They're completely useless here.

[cantsin]

17 minutes ago, Axel said:

To say that those Pana/Oly system lenses with very soft fly-by-wire focus (usually ideal for fast and quiet AF) are 'suboptimal' is way too weak. They're completely useless here.

You're more brutally honest than me. 

I predict that many Pocket 4K buyers who're new to Blackmagic will face a rude awakening. Not only that their electronic MFT system lenses will not be right for the camera and that any lens will require IR filtration.

In addition, raw will be tempting for most people but require huge additional spending for CFast cards, GTX1080-class GPUs, SSDs or RAIDs for editing - and almost no way of editing this material on laptops.

[Snuff]

I'm going to use with the new Pocket 4K vintage full frame manual lenses with Metabones Speed Booster XL 0.64x (Nikon to M4/3). 

1. Tokina 28-70 f/2.8, with BMPCC4K (crop 1.9) and 0.64x booster it covers 34-85mm f/1.8.

2. Leica Summicron-R 50mm f/2.

3. And I would like to get Angenieux 70-210mm f/3.5.

[kye]

32 minutes ago, cantsin said:

In addition, raw will be tempting for most people but require huge additional spending for CFast cards, GTX1080-class GPUs, SSDs or RAIDs for editing - and almost no way of editing this material on laptops.

I agree about laptops having almost no hope here.  The 'almost' is rendering lower resolution proxy footage......  but this really isn't saying much - my 2016 13" MBP can't edit the 305Mbit 4K files from my XC10!!

The problem comes in if you need to be able to grade in front of a client - then it will take a supercomputer!! 

or maybe one of these...?   https://www.asus.com/us/News/ZwwO4E0EimUoYyEi 

[JordanWright]

1 hour ago, Snuff said:

I'm going to use with the new Pocket 4K vintage full frame manual lenses with Metabones Speed Booster XL 0.64x (Nikon to M4/3). 

1. Tokina 28-70 f/2.8, with BMPCC4K (crop 1.9) and 0.64x booster it covers 34-85mm f/1.8.

2. Leica Summicron-R 50mm f/2.

3. And I would like to get Angenieux 70-210mm f/3.5.

Im also thinking about the XL + Tokina 28-70, I (regrettably) sold my copy but might look for another. 

[Snuff]

In this video you can compare Sigma 18-35 and Tokina 28-70. Shot with Ursa Mini 4.6K. Tokina is very filmic (starts at 2:36).

 

[webrunner5]

2 hours ago, cantsin said:

Both are sub optimal lenses on Blackmagic cameras because their optical designs are based on software geometry, vignetting and color fringing correction which the Pocket does not provide. In addition, they're autofocus lenses that are clumsy to use on BM cameras with their push autofocus. In addition, they do not resolve 4K.

For best image quality and handling, I would use manual lenses (Voigtlander, Veydra, SLR Magic, Samyang).

"sub optima" IS the reason I will use them. ? I don't want sharp as hell lenses like I said. And clumsy AF, hell the 4K BMPCC doesn't even Have AF in a sense. I am glad they don't resolve 4K LoL. I really doubt I will ever output in 4K. Maybe down sample at times to 1080p but I doubt even that often.

You are stating the complete Opposite of what I want in a lens. If I wanted sharp I would buy a Sony A7r mk III. I think the magic of a BMPCC is that they are not razor sharp. Not like ML 5D mk III. I don't want to really have to knock down sharpness on every shot I take. But sure nice if you want that option thought Like I guess you want. Now if you want a smooth look, which I like, I think those lenses can do that, buttery smooth, I doubt we can get that other than using real film with Cooke lenses, we will never be able to afford. Cut your face, well no either. But I don't like cut your face stuff. Seems you do. I like to get a lot of the look I like in camera, not spending 6 hours on a NLE doing it. So I think cheap lenses on it will do fine for me. Plenty of old Nikon, Canon MF stuff around for peanuts for my needs. Plus I am a cheap slate, eh poor, and don't have all that money to spend on 1000 + dollars lenses, when I can buy what I want on Amazon for 60 bucks each and get my result. But that is the beauty of video, photography, we all get to make it look like we want it to look like if we have the skill.

But yeah if you are going to try to make a living with the BM sure you will Need the lenses you are talking about and more of them. I am just in this as a hobby. At 71 I am too old to worry about deadlines, spending money left and right I don't have, on and on.

 

2 hours ago, Axel said:

To say that those Pana/Oly system lenses with very soft fly-by-wire focus (usually ideal for fast and quiet AF) are 'suboptimal' is way too weak. They're completely useless here.

You guys are funny as hell.  I doubt ANYBODY has even made anything worth a shit with a 14.-140mm or the kit lens. Oh the vanity to throw tons of peoples stuff under the bus  LoL. I did BIF stuff for years photography wise and video wise, and gee, they seemed to work fairly well doing it. Super duper ideal, no, but crap lenses nah.

[Samin]

I'm happy I asked the question! some good ideas around here!

 

5 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

Me too, although I can use it on the cameras I already have, so if it doesn't work for some reason on the p4k, it's not so much of an issue for me. I also have a metabones adapter with no glass, so I image I can also use that on the p4k with no problems. If both adapters work, I'll essentially double my lens collection, giving each lens a little further reach with the non speedbooster.

As for lenses, I'll mostly be using the Sigma 18-35 1.8 and Canon 50mm 1.8. They're both great lenses and give me all the focal lengths I need with lots of light. Especially if I keep both adapters with me. When I need something more discreet, I'll more than likely be using my trusty old Sigma 30mm 1.4 with the speedbooter. I find for holidays and more walk about kind of stuff, it's the perfect focal length and looks great, even with the worst lighting you can imagine. Especially since the booster makes it f1.0.

6

I'm eying the Sigma 18-35 as well now that I got a good offer for it.

3 hours ago, cantsin said:

For best image quality and handling, I would use manual lenses (Voigtlander, Veydra, SLR Magic, Samyang).

 

Do you have any of them in your arsenal or planning to get?

I was checking Samyang 85mm T1.5 ef mount paired with speedbooster should be an interesting combo.

3 hours ago, Snuff said:

I'm going to use with the new Pocket 4K vintage full frame manual lenses with Metabones Speed Booster XL 0.64x (Nikon to M4/3). 

1. Tokina 28-70 f/2.8, with BMPCC4K (crop 1.9) and 0.64x booster it covers 34-85mm f/1.8.

2. Leica Summicron-R 50mm f/2.

3. And I would like to get Angenieux 70-210mm f/3.5.

Nice, combo. Certainly that Tokina looks good.

[webrunner5]

5 hours ago, cantsin said:

Both are suboptimal lenses on Blackmagic cameras because their optical designs are based on software geometry, vignetting and color fringing correction which the Pocket does not provide. In addition, they're autofocus lenses that are clumsy to use on BM cameras with their push autofocus. In addition, they do not resolve 4K.

For best image quality and handling, I would use manual lenses (Voigtlander, Veydra, SLR Magic, Samyang).

I know this video is Terrible for movement, my son's first ever use of a video camera I guess, but he is using my 14-140mm on my G7. I think it is plenty sharp enough and the focus is pretty damn good. I rest my case on using it. And it is a good example of how good of video you can take with a cheap 350 buck camera and a cheap 275 buck lens. Now yeah it needed to be on a tripod pretty badly LoL.

But yeah it is unknown how it will look on the 4K BMPCC without software corrections. But it is not as bad as I think a lot of people may think. I used it on my Panny AF100A and it seemed fine on it. Now did it do corrections on it, not sure. So you may be right about your assumptions. We will find out.

https://vimeo.com/273507992

[Snuff]

Cover area comparison of BMPCC4K with and without speed booster 0.64x.

[JordanWright]

Just ordered the Tokina 28-70 2.6-2.8 from ebay for £130, not bad for that zoom range. Eventually I think ill put together a set of primes to compliment it, maybe Contax Zeiss or Leica R's...

[Parker]

I sold my Tokina/baby Angénieux 28-70 f/2.6-2.8 just a few months ago, I wasn't ever using it after I moved to a pretty much all Zeiss Contax lineup (the 35-70mm f3.4 on a speedbooster is an incredible lens, just amazing, I can't wait to see what it looks like on the new BMPCC). 

But the Tokina does have very beautiful, filmic rendering. Basically I sold it because I had an EF version (so no way to change the aperture) and that drove me crazy since it is quite soft wide open. Little did I know, if I had just held onto it for a few months... anyway, here's a pic that shows off the Tokina's bokeh and special look for those that are curious:

 

 

[JordanWright]

56 minutes ago, Parker said:

I sold my Tokina/baby Angénieux 28-70 f/2.6-2.8 just a few months ago, I wasn't ever using it after I moved to a pretty much all Zeiss Contax lineup (the 35-70mm f3.4 on a speedbooster is an incredible lens, just amazing, I can't wait to see what it looks like on the new BMPCC). 

But the Tokina does have very beautiful, filmic rendering. Basically I sold it because I had an EF version (so no way to change the aperture) and that drove me crazy since it is quite soft wide open. Little did I know, if I had just held onto it for a few months... anyway, here's a pic that shows off the Tokina's bokeh and special look for those that are curious:

 

 

Wow it looks great, I originally sold it for the Sigma 50-100 to pair with the 18-35 but i didn't get on with the combo so much, how do you find the 35-70 CZ? especially the since its push-pull, is it tricky to pull focus?

[SR]

1 hour ago, Parker said:

I sold my Tokina/baby Angénieux 28-70 f/2.6-2.8 just a few months ago, I wasn't ever using it after I moved to a pretty much all Zeiss Contax lineup (the 35-70mm f3.4 on a speedbooster is an incredible lens, just amazing, I can't wait to see what it looks like on the new BMPCC). 

But the Tokina does have very beautiful, filmic rendering. Basically I sold it because I had an EF version (so no way to change the aperture) and that drove me crazy since it is quite soft wide open. Little did I know, if I had just held onto it for a few months... anyway, here's a pic that shows off the Tokina's bokeh and special look for those that are curious:

Why couldn't you change the aperture?

[Parker]

4 minutes ago, SR said:

Why couldn't you change the aperture?

Because I primarily shoot on Samsung NX cameras with dumb adapters, so no electronic control of the aperture is possible. Originally I was hoping to get a Nikon version of the Tokina, which has the physical aperture wheel present on the lens,  unlike the EF version, which is electronic only. 

 

12 minutes ago, JordanWright said:

Wow it looks great, I originally sold it for the Sigma 50-100 to pair with the 18-35 but i didn't get on with the combo so much, how do you find the 35-70 CZ? especially the since its push-pull, is it tricky to pull focus?

The 35-70 is absolutely my favorite lens at the moment. It's absurdly sharp and certainly has that special Zeiss "je ne sais quoi." I've been meaning to post a bunch of samples of all my new CZ lenses over in the lens thread, because I've been so thrilled with the quality and character (right now I have the 50 1.7, the 60 2.8, the 85 2.8, and the 35-70, which is on my camera the majority of the time.) 

The push-pull nature of the lens is actually a huge plus for the type of shooting that I do, which is primarily run and gun corporate, university and wedding stuff. It's really convenient to be able to both zoom and focus with the same hand at the same time, rather than switching between two different rings like a more modern zoom. It is also parfocal, assuming you can zoom without moving the focus ring, which just takes a bit of practice. The focus ring on my copy is buttery smooth, and still has a very long throw which makes nailing focus easy. That's where the 3.4 aperture is also kind of nice (effective 2.4 w/speedbooster) because I have the tendency to always shoot wide-open, I can't help it, so the little bit slower lens means I'm not fighting with crazy shallow depth of field as much as I would with something faster. 

[Axel]

10 hours ago, Axel said:

To say that those Pana/Oly system lenses with very soft fly-by-wire focus (usually ideal for fast and quiet AF) are 'suboptimal' is way too weak. They're completely useless here.

8 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

You guys are funny as hell.  I doubt ANYBODY has even made anything worth a shit with a 14.-140mm or the kit lens. Oh the vanity to throw tons of peoples stuff under the bus  LoL. I did BIF stuff for years photography wise and video wise, and gee, they seemed to work fairly well doing it. Super duper ideal, no, but crap lenses nah.

 

5 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

I know this video is Terrible for movement, my son's first ever use of a video camera I guess, but he is using my 14-140mm on my G7. I think it is plenty sharp enough and the focus is pretty damn good.

https://vimeo.com/273507992

You got me wrong. I didn't say the lenses were soft. Or 'crap'. One of my favorite lenses for my A6500 is the Sony 18-105. Mostly for practical reasons. But you can't for the love of god focus manually, because there are no 'positions', and if you try to rehearse a focus transition, the focus ring will just slip under your fingers. Even infinity is infinitely pushed away from you. That's what I meant with "completely useless there" (= on a 4k Pocket). And your son's clip proves little, because it's done with such a narrow aperture, it's almost fixed focus.

Also, of the category I was referring to I only know Pan 14-40 kit lens, Oly 9-18 and Oly 12. There may be better lenses. On the official Pocket site BM shows the camera mostly with the Oly 12-40 f2.8, and according to this review, the manual focus is very useable:

1 hour ago, SR said:

Why couldn't you change the aperture?

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Parker said:

Because I primarily shoot on Samsung NX cameras with dumb adapters, so no electronic control of the aperture is possible. Originally I was hoping to get a Nikon version of the Tokina, which has the physical aperture wheel present on the lens,  unlike the EF version, which is electronic only. 

You might take a look at the Viltrox speedbooster, which seems to have a manual aperture control for the EF lenses (video timed):

 

[Jim Giberti]

On the push pull zoom topic, FWIW I offer the Nikkor 50-135mm f/3.5 Ai-s.

This is one of those "under the radar" lenses that was only on the market very briefly but is pretty widely loved by the folks that have shot with them. 

We've used it on the UMP and Micro with MB dumb and SB adapters.

It's built like a tank but really wieldy with a 62mm front. Unboosted on the new P4k it will be a 100-270mm which would be a pretty great compliment to a Sigma at a relative 35-70mm. 

The IQ is pretty stunning on my and other copies I've seen. Great contrast and uniform detail across the zoom range. Definitely the vintage nikkor look w/a slightly cool rendering vs Canon glass, for instance.

You can find them ridiculously cheap on ebay $100-$200. 

Absolute no brainer if you can find a good copy.