Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[John Brawley]

1 hour ago, Axel said:

 

 But you can't for the love of god focus manually, because there are no 'positions', and if you try to rehearse a focus transition, the focus ring will just slip under your fingers. Even infinity is infinitely pushed away from you. That's what I meant with "completely useless there" (= on a 4k Pocket). And your son's clip proves little, because it's done with such a narrow aperture, it's almost fixed focus (and still loses it occasionally).

 

 

I agree that a lot of stills lenses are rubbish to manual focus with.   When I first started in my role as an "Olympus Visionary" I told my friends at Olympus the same thing.  I actually have met with the optical and lens designers at their R&D facility in Japan and we talked very specifically about this as I mostly use manual focus when I shoot with these cameras.

The Olympus PRO lenses now have hard stops when in MF, and you seamlessly transition from focus by wire continuous and then into MF mid shot if you want via the way you pull the clutch back.  I love that Olympus have really tried to address this issue.  So far the 7-14, 12-40, 12-100 IS, the 40-150, the 17mm, 25mm and the 45mm 1.2 PRO primes all have this manual focus feature.  

The focus ring itself is all gigantic and actually feels great too, its a true mechanical feel.

JB

 

[Dave Maze]

33 minutes ago, John Brawley said:

I agree that a lot of stills lenses are rubbish to manual focus with.   When I first started in my role as an "Olympus Visionary" I told my friends at Olympus the same thing.  I actually have met with the optical and lens designers at their R&D facility in Japan and we talked very specifically about this as I mostly use manual focus when I shoot with these cameras.

The Olympus PRO lenses now have hard stops when in MF, and you seamlessly transition from focus by wire continuous and then into MF mid shot if you want via the way you pull the clutch back.  I love that Olympus have really tried to address this issue.  So far the 7-14, 12-40, 12-100 IS, the 40-150, the 17mm, 25mm and the 45mm 1.2 PRO primes all have this manual focus feature.  

The focus ring itself is all gigantic and actually feels great too, its a true mechanical feel.

JB

 

I can vouch for that. The manual focus by wire is linear so it’s much much easier to do

[Jim Giberti]

18 minutes ago, John Brawley said:

The 12-40mm is such a well built lens in every way and the focus clutch really is that good.

Because I've always shot manual focus (without follow focus) I've never been interested in MFT AF lenses because of the fly by wire thing.

But good on you John because even at about  90 degree range on the 12-40 it's great to use. I can see it as a "go to" on the new P4K. Great FL range, size and build...and sharp and contrasty. I've really become fond of the Oly Pro glass. The 45mm Pro is such a nice compliment to the zoom.

Also love that they've treated them as a set with 62mm fronts on prety much everything but the 40-150 I think. 

 

 

[jonpais]

The Olympus 45mm f/1.2 PRO is among my favorite lenses. The one drawback is that it costs nearly as much as the Pocket 4K.

[JordanWright]

The price on those 1.2 primes was the main reason I haven't gone for them, all the footage i've seen looks fantastic.

[Trek of Joy]

12 hours ago, Snuff said:

I'm going to use with the new Pocket 4K vintage full frame manual lenses with Metabones Speed Booster XL 0.64x (Nikon to M4/3). 

1. Tokina 28-70 f/2.8, with BMPCC4K (crop 1.9) and 0.64x booster it covers 34-85mm f/1.8.

2. Leica Summicron-R 50mm f/2.

3. And I would like to get Angenieux 70-210mm f/3.5.

My plan is to do something similar. Only I'm going with the Nikon Bourne lenses, the 28-70/2.8 and 80-200/2.8, sharper wide open with more contrast, with a couple fast Nikon primes to complete the set. I had the Tokina/Angineux zoom, had to stop my copy down to 5.6 to get rid of that milky glow. My lens wasn't decentered and it looked consistent with other samples I'd seen on the net, I just prefer a bit more bite to the sharpness with more modern coatings. Its a great MF lens though, mine was really smooth and easy to repeat focus moves.

I would like to do Contax/Zeiss as I really like the way they look, but the zooms are mostly one-touch and I find it challenging to zoom/focus with the same ring while shooting handheld.

Chris

[webrunner5]

3 hours ago, Axel said:

 

You got me wrong. I didn't say the lenses were soft. Or 'crap'. One of my favorite lenses for my A6500 is the Sony 18-105. Mostly for practical reasons. But you can't for the love of god focus manually, because there are no 'positions', and if you try to rehearse a focus transition, the focus ring will just slip under your fingers. Even infinity is infinitely pushed away from you. That's what I meant with "completely useless there" (= on a 4k Pocket). And your son's clip proves little, because it's done with such a narrow aperture, it's almost fixed focus.

Also, of the category I was referring to I only know Pan 14-40 kit lens, Oly 9-18 and Oly 12. There may be better lenses. On the official Pocket site BM shows the camera mostly with the Oly 12-40 f2.8, and according to this review, the manual focus is very useable:

 

 

 

 

 

Well I can understand why it is not easy, and I doubt I will be doing crash zooms with them LoL. But i can't afford to buy a whole bunch of Cine Lenses and the camera to boot. So I will need to use them as is. I am a tripod guy in no hurry so I doubt it will effect me much. I used to have a bunch of MF old lenses, but it got to be a GAS attack from hell and I got rid off Everyone of them. There is no end to that habit. So I will use what I gots as they say. One push AF ought to work. I know on my AF100A I had it worked well enough on it.

 

[Parker]

20 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

My plan is to do something similar. Only I'm going with the Nikon Bourne lenses, the 28-70/2.8 and 80-200/2.8, sharper wide open with more contrast, with a couple fast Nikon primes to complete the set. I had the Tokina/Angineux zoom, had to stop my copy down to 5.6 to get rid of that milky glow. My lens wasn't decentered and it looked consistent with other samples I'd seen on the net, I just prefer a bit more bite to the sharpness with more modern coatings. Its a great MF lens though, mine was really smooth and easy to repeat focus moves.

I would like to do Contax/Zeiss as I really like the way they look, but the zooms are mostly one-touch and I find it challenging to zoom/focus with the same ring while shooting handheld.

Chris

I used to have a similar set up (looks like we've all taken old Andy Lee's EOSHD lens advice to heart!) That 80-200 is one hell of a lens, sharp wide open, built like a tank. Just be aware that it is indeed a push-pull lens as well, if you're going after the one frequently recommended on this forum. The actual one used on the Bourne movies was the same lens, just re-housed for cine use. I liked mine, but eventually sold it because it was just too big and bulky for the type of shooting I do, as I don't really like to go all out with a rigged-up heavy cage/rails and lens-support setup, which I felt like I had to with the 80-200. Plus I rarely feel the need to go beyond 135 so it was kind of unnecessary zoom range for me. Eventually I had gotten rid of enough of my other Nikkor Ai and AiS primes that I started getting annoyed only having one lens that "focused backwards". Wreaks havoc on my muscle memory haha. 

[John Brawley]

1 hour ago, JordanWright said:

The price on those 1.2 primes was the main reason I haven't gone for them, all the footage i've seen looks fantastic.

Lenses will generally last a lot longer than the camera ?

They're always a good investment in my view

2 hours ago, Jim Giberti said:

On the push pull zoom topic, FWIW I offer the Nikkor 50-135mm f/3.5 Ai-s.

This is one of those "under the radar" lenses that was only on the market very briefly but is pretty widely loved by the folks that have shot with them. 

 

Nikon do some lovely glass.

But for us dedicated manual focus lovers, they focus the wrong way and that's not an insignificant issue with my decades of muscle memory.  I usually like to pull of the barrel in these scenarios but you can get direction reversing gears and reverse a motor of course, but in this kind of area, that's less likely to happen...

JB

[graphicnatured]

I'll start with what I've been using and see how everything looks, then I'll start visiting this and other forums to see what you guys are using and the results everyone may share.

Nikon 

24-70, 70-200, 35mm F2, 85mm 1.8

Tokina

100 Macro, 11-16

Sigma 

50 1.4

Helios 40 and 44, Jupiter 9

Kowa 1.5x

[anonim]

I'd suggest Leica R zooms - I found that their construction is second to none except modern Voigts. They don't protrude, focus and zoom rings are incredible smooth, again only comparable with Noktons. If lenses are in nice conditions (and their long life  period is unbeatable) they achieved quality that is the most important to me but I don't know how to better explain it: cleanness. Simply, image without predominant tone/shadow veil. Most of vintage lenses has it - and although it may be interesting in effect, it is near impossible to remove it completely in grading to get proper initial/neutral/clean grading point.

 

[TwoScoops]

If I get one I'll probably reacquire the Voigtlander set. They are my favourite lenses. 

[Trek of Joy]

14 hours ago, Parker said:

I used to have a similar set up (looks like we've all taken old Andy Lee's EOSHD lens advice to heart!) That 80-200 is one hell of a lens, sharp wide open, built like a tank. Just be aware that it is indeed a push-pull lens as well, if you're going after the one frequently recommended on this forum. The actual one used on the Bourne movies was the same lens, just re-housed for cine use. I liked mine, but eventually sold it because it was just too big and bulky for the type of shooting I do, as I don't really like to go all out with a rigged-up heavy cage/rails and lens-support setup, which I felt like I had to with the 80-200. Plus I rarely feel the need to go beyond 135 so it was kind of unnecessary zoom range for me. Eventually I had gotten rid of enough of my other Nikkor Ai and AiS primes that I started getting annoyed only having one lens that "focused backwards". Wreaks havoc on my muscle memory haha. 

There's a two-touch version of the 80-200 AF-D. That's the one I'm referring to. I skip rails and just use the zoom's tripod mount with the camera hanging off the back. If I'm shooting with a tele, I'm generally on the sticks or a monopod. I use my lenses on APS-c and FF, so for me they cover a broader spectrum than m43. I would guesstimate that the 28-70 with and without a speed booster can cover 95% of what I shoot. If I like the P4k, I'll find an ultrawide like the Tokina 11-16 to cover the rest of my needs. 

Cheers

Chris

[Kieran]

I suspect the Pocket 4K might make an appearance in London next week at the Media Production Show:

https://www.mediaproductionshow.com/

[JordanWright]

I hope so... ive got tickets 

[Kieran]

12 minutes ago, JordanWright said:

I hope so... ive got tickets 

Me too - but I've also been offered a lucrative editing job for next week so I'll probably have to miss the show. 

[SR]

Lenses to go with the BMPCC4k needs a new thread. This is something I'd follow.

[JordanWright]

Blackmagic were at the Media Production Show in London today. They didnt have any Pocket 4k's on display but they told me they are still expecting a September release.

[Turboguard]

4 hours ago, JordanWright said:

Blackmagic were at the Media Production Show in London today. They didnt have any Pocket 4k's on display but they told me they are still expecting a September release.

That's a little crazy. Only 2.5 months until release, and they don't show any footage or nothing, but spent tons of money on the PR for it (images on their website etc).

[Jim Giberti]

15 minutes ago, Turboguard said:

That's a little crazy. Only 2.5 months until release, and they don't show any footage or nothing, but spent tons of money on the PR for it (images on their website etc).

I don't think that it's crazy. 

What would be crazy, I think, would be to release less than optimal footage for everyone to squabble over while the sensor is possibly still being tweaked. Their cameras improve and evolve with each product and firmware release, so there's no reason to expect anything different with a camera they've been developing for so long. Obviously the countless people that pre-ordered within hours are confident that this will be the next gen, small camera that they've been anticipating.

But of course it makes sense for anyone, who wants to see footage, to wait until the camera is out in the field and being shot, tested and reviewed, as most people do.

Personally, I had no issue pre-ordering a pair at the end of the press event, without seeing advance footage.