webrunner5 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 11 hours ago, Snuff said: A quote from the review of Terra 4K: https://nofilmschool.com/2018/04/review-kinefinity-terra-4k-offers-bang-buck Well since it is using the same Sony sensor as the GH5s I am not surprised it is in the 12.5 range + or -, but that is pretty darn good for a m4/3 sized sensor compared to the GH4 era of sensors.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Here's the review: The shot at 6:57 of him in slow-mo with the light of a single match is just incredible!! Footage reminds me of the Canon 5DIII ML RAW 14 bit from @kidzrevil in places. Just lovely. Are people anticipating the Pocket 2 to have IQ like the T4K? and to all the people who think you don't need good IQ for home videos - see the lovely shot at 8:12 kidzrevil and IronFilm 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snuff Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Comparing IQ of the Pocket4K and Terra4K you should pay attention to lenses. He used in this review hi quality glass. I'm sure Pocket 4K will be good too with Leica R's Quote Lots of different lenses since there are so many shoots and locations. My base set is 5 Leica R primes ranging from 28-135mm so those are in a lot of scenes - the little girl with the markers was definitely the 28mm, but I can't remember every shot. One of the Norway days I borrowed my friend's Sigma 18-35mm Art. The Bladerunner looking stuff in the office was on a 24-70mm Canon L, The stuff at night with the cars in the rain was a Pentax 50mm f/1.4 Super Takumar, and the shot of the model with the chart and OLPF flare were on a Zeiss CP2 50mm cine prime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaconda_ Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Anyone speak Korean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleBobsPhotography Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 30 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said: Anyone speak Korean? He is just explaining the specs of the camera, MFT mount, touch screen, good features for video, good DR, 4k60p, HDMI, battery type, USB-C, DNGRAW and DavinciResolve is convenient, ProRes is also available, still camera button next to the regular one, please visit our homepage. No new information as far as I can tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Most every one I have seen had a Olympus lens on it. This one has a Panasonic lens on it. Can't tell which one though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoScoops Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 It's the 12-35. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 30 minutes ago, TwoScoops said: It's the 12-35. Maybe the damn thing has AF if they are using that lens other than push to focus. Fingers crossed. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savannah Miller Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Those 18 stop RED claims are ridiculous. Download the R3D's of the xyla chart and try them out for yourself in davinci resolve. It's VERY hard to produce the dynamic range numbers they are claiming. Those xyla chart images are misleading as they use frame averaging of multiple frames to remove noise and they use multiple ISO settings within the R3D and composite the results together. That's not how you use a xyla chart. The sensor in that video that's 18 stops is the Dragon 8K VV sensor which was never released. Now it's the monstro sensor which supposedly is a little better. In order to reveal the dynamic range numbers phil is getting, I have to set the ISO to the highest settings and crank it up further just to dig into the shadows. Even then I still can't get as much information as he is clearly getting so I have no idea what he's doing. If the camera captures 18 stops of DR, it's very hard to reveal it all and impossible to use. For a long time people on there was a long thread where asked one simple question: If Red Dragon and Alexa captured xyla images and were processed in exactly the same method would the Alexa show the same or better dynamic range than the dragon? Everyone was dancing around the answer when the main tester who was comparing both cameras eventually broke down and said that he believed the Alexa would show more dynamic range. Likewise, there are tons of tests showing that without digging up lots of noise, the Alexa still does have more usable DR than helium and dragon cameras. There's even old RED images showing alexa and RED MX xyla chart images side by side with a minimal DR difference. But we all know that isn't remotely true. IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Those Red cameras that have high DR also have Huge sensors in them. 40.96 mm x 21.60 mm. Any camera that has a larger senor and is 6K, 8K shooting Raw is going to be one hell of a lot better with DR. Why do you think top Fashion, Landscape people use Medium Formats cameras. Because they want more DR than you are going to get from a FF sensor. It is simple Physics. When you do the same Xyla chart images test with a M4/3 senor they suck, just like they should compared to a senor that is 40.96 mm x 21.60 mm that has a 16bit output, and uses a heck of a lot better Codec than a a GH4 is using.. And the Panavision Millenium DXL2 uses RED's Monstro 8K VistaVision sensor, giving it 16-bit, 8,192 x 4,320 RAW output with a claimed 16 stops of dynamic range. So who knows what is what, but I ca guarantee you it is a lot more stops than the average Joe Blow has in the camera they can afford. Personally I think all this talk about the GH5, Canon 5D mk IV, Sony A7... having 12, 13 stops is horse shit also. It probably is in reality more like 10.5 stops. And the big boys are at 16 stops. If BM is Only claiming 13 stops for the 4K BMPCC, the GH5s sure as hell is not 14.5 stops when it doesn't even shoot Raw video. Raw usually adds 1 1/2 stops. So the GH5s is probably 10.5 like I have said. The Canon 5D mk III is more like 9.5 stops in reality. Oh then you output it all in Rec 709 and you get a lovely 7 stops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Should we start a petition for Canon to make a consumer Medium-Format video-centric ILC? Some would argue that if we're going to dream then we should dream BIG! webrunner5 and IronFilm 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 11 minutes ago, kye said: Should we start a petition for Canon to make a consumer Medium-Format video-centric ILC? Some would argue that if we're going to dream then we should dream BIG! You know I am surprised Canon never has made a MF camera. They still sort of are the Ultimate camera you can buy, especially for Photos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 7 minutes ago, webrunner5 said: You know I am surprised Canon never has made a MF camera. They still sort of are the Ultimate camera you can buy, especially for Photos. In what way are they the ultimate? The resolution used to be the thing that differentiated them, but now the resolutions are matched in FF by A7R / 5DS etc. I guess you're still talking DR? If we're going for ultimate then why not a Large Format sensor? This guy showed that the physical size is manageable.. If you wrapped the guts of a cinema camera around that it would barely increase the size at all! IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 18 minutes ago, kye said: In what way are they the ultimate? The resolution used to be the thing that differentiated them, but now the resolutions are matched in FF by A7R / 5DS etc. I guess you're still talking DR? If we're going for ultimate then why not a Large Format sensor? This guy showed that the physical size is manageable.. If you wrapped the guts of a cinema camera around that it would barely increase the size at all! Well DoF is one of the best advantages, the 3D look. And yeah they have more DR. And until lately they were all CCD sensors. They had a Lot better colors also but sucked at higher ISO's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 There looks like there is still a bit of a T/S effect going on in those video clips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 26 minutes ago, IronFilm said: There looks like there is still a bit of a T/S effect going on in those video clips? I'd be amazed if there wasn't! The digital camera inside the "camera obscura" chamber uses T/S to view the projection, and the other lens may also be using it, I'm not sure (I haven't watched that video in a while). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 1 minute ago, kye said: The digital camera inside the "camera obscura" chamber uses T/S to view the projection Yes, that is what I noticed from the video, and I wondered if its positioning needed to be further tweaked to help fix that or if it couldn't be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 1 minute ago, IronFilm said: Yes, that is what I noticed from the video, and I wondered if its positioning needed to be further tweaked to help fix that or if it couldn't be. I'm sure that when Canon makes their Large Format consumer ILC (WHEN! - ha ha ha) they'll sort it out ??? IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Brawley Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 4 hours ago, Savannah Miller said: Those 18 stop RED claims are ridiculous. Download the R3D's of the xyla chart and try them out for yourself in davinci resolve. It's VERY hard to produce the dynamic range numbers they are claiming. Those xyla chart images are misleading as they use frame averaging of multiple frames to remove noise and they use multiple ISO settings within the R3D and composite the results together. That's not how you use a xyla chart. The sensor in that video that's 18 stops is the Dragon 8K VV sensor which was never released. Now it's the monstro sensor which supposedly is a little better Actually RED initially were claiming 20 stops when they were first releasing images. Anyone else remember this ? www.thephoblographer.com/2013/01/01/reds-dragon-sensor-lives-up-to-hype-of-20-stops-of-dynamic-range/amp/ and sure you can count 20 stops in that image. But we all know they don’t really have 20 stops. So anytime someone makes a claim about stops (including Blackmagic) I always judge by actually shooting something, preferably alongside another known like an Alexa. JB IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 The original Arri Alexa did not do Raw other than to an external recorder. And at the time of introduction Arri claimed the following. As you can see they were Only claiming 14 stops. You have to figure the Alexa is "Only" outputting Arri RAW 2.8K in 12 bit. So it is not going to be super high. Long story short a lot of cameras really don't put out as much DR as you would think. But I want to correct my above statement about the DR of the Canon 3D mk III. I said 9.5, I meant 10.5 maybe 11. ALEXA Classic EV Features BEST OVERALL IMAGE QUALITY Film-like, organic look High Dynamic Range 14+ stops exposure latitude over the entire EI range as measured with the ARRI Dynamic Range Test Chart future proof for High Dynamic Range (HDR) displays 16 bit in-camera processing But there is this article that was interesting at the time. https://nofilmschool.com/2014/07/sony-a7s-dynamic-range-arri-alexa-amira And this older one. https://nofilmschool.com/2013/03/blackmagic-cinema-camera-red-epic-arri-alexa-raw-test-part-3-overexposure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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