Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[zerocool22]

47 minutes ago, Gregormannschaft said:

Just dropping here, have we actually seen any decent footage from this camera yet? I didn’t like those staged set tests from NAB earlier this year. I want to see it out in the wild, moving.

Nope, my guess it will look something in between Terra 4K and GH5S, but better codecs then both

[jonpais]

5 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

To me noise doesn't make much difference when you are doing a DR test. To me the last last stop on the graph is the one that you can barely see that is the end of being usable, the next one is in a sense is nearly invisible, so does not count . So noisy or not you could not see it anyways. Now I know you can't have crazy noise but real film was noisy as heck, 8mm was a good example. And people even add it, so noise is not the end of the world.

I believe they add film grain, not noise. ?

[Savannah Miller]

35 minutes ago, zerocool22 said:

Nope, my guess it will look something in between Terra 4K and GH5S, but better codecs then both

Terra 4K has the same codecs as the Blackmagic.  I think it just has higher framerate and  OLPF, which is  the only major difference.  Color science and image will be different, obviously.

[zerocool22]

1 minute ago, Savannah Miller said:

Terra 4K has the same codecs as the Blackmagic.  I think it just has higher framerate and  OLPF, which is  the only major difference.  Color science and image will be different, obviously.

No it does not, Kinefinity has KineRaw which Davinci Resolve or Adobe Premiere not supports, you have to transcode before editing which is a slower workflow. As blackmagic is drag and drop :). The higher framerates and OLPF would be nice though but not needed for 90% of the things I do.  

[Savannah Miller]

3 minutes ago, zerocool22 said:

No it does not, Kinefinity has KineRaw which Davinci Resolve or Adobe Premiere not supports, you have to transcode before editing which is a slower workflow. As blackmagic is drag and drop :). The higher framerates and OLPF would be nice though but not needed for 90% of the things I do.  

Terra 4K now does cinemadng and compressed cinemadng too.  Actually I think it does up to 7:1 compression too which is  BETTER than what the Blackmagic does.  It does Kineraw too which is more options.

[zerocool22]

1 minute ago, Savannah Miller said:

Terra 4K now does cinemadng and compressed cinemadng too.  Actually I think it does up to 7;1 compression too.

Are you sure? I dont see that in the spec list? http://www.kinefinity.com/terra/?lang=en

[Savannah Miller]

4 minutes ago, zerocool22 said:

Are you sure? I dont see that in the spec list? http://www.kinefinity.com/terra/?lang=en

Yes.  It was upgraded in firmware 6.0 beta.  Only thing it cannot do is 4:4:4 which Kinefinity says is because of too much processing power required.  So that's good reasoning as to why the new Pocket can't do it either.

 

http://www.kinefinity.com/firmware_terra_kineos6p0/?lang=en

 

Crazy thing is it's in the lower priced Terra 4K model, but not the more expensive Terra 6K model.  That model was doomed to fail because of the horrible rolling shutter and not hardly any other benefits over the 4k model.

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, Savannah Miller said:

Terra 4K has the same codecs as the Blackmagic.  I think it just has higher framerate and  OLPF, which is  the only major difference.  Color science and image will be different, obviously.

It is much more than that, Kinefinity has a whole ecosystem around their camera (like RED does, but at much much MUCH lower prices!)

1 hour ago, Savannah Miller said:

Crazy thing is it's in the lower priced Terra 4K model, but not the more expensive Terra 6K model.  That model was doomed to fail because of the horrible rolling shutter and not hardly any other benefits over the 4k model.

The Terra 6K is the older model, so at the time it was "the best" Kinefinity made, but they've moved on to the Terra 4K and now the Mavo series 

[Savannah Miller]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

It is much more than that, Kinefinity has a whole ecosystem around their camera (like RED does, but at much much MUCH lower prices!)

The Terra 6K is the older model, so at the time it was "the best" Kinefinity made, but they've moved on to the Terra 4K and now the Mavo series 

That's true but it's like an ecosystem around a lackluster camera (terra 4K and 6K).  I think the pocket 4K solution of all in one is better for the type of camera that it is.  Mavo 6K and LF look much better.

[IronFilm]

I wouldn't call the Terra 4K "lackluster"

[webrunner5]

9 hours ago, jonpais said:

I believe they add film grain, not noise. ?

You can add noise just as easy as film grain. Different things. Noise is not film grain. Years ago we added noise to cover up poor resolution. It was a TV trick for years for early ENG cameras..

[webrunner5]

12 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

Yeah I really liked the Image from the 5D III RAW, but the workflow is something else though and I also missed decent 1080p 60fps. Also the screen of the 5D III is a tad too small to make critical checks(never got it working properlly with a external monitor, which also defeats having a dslr type body). 

The pocket 4K will def replace my 5D III for video purposes. 

Speaking of BM 4K BMPCC screens. There is this photo I found. It doesn't look too big in this shot. That guy is not that big either.

But we are not going to be able to stick one in our pocket that is for sure!

 

[DBounce]

41 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Speaking of BM 4K BMPCC screens. There is this photo I found. It doesn't look too big in this shot. That guy is not that big either.

But we are not going to be able to stick one in our pocket that is for sure!

 

I had a play with this camera at NAB, the screen is a reasonable size, though not as high a quality as you would find on a high-end smartphone. It will do for the purpose. I wish it was a "flippy" screen though. When is the footage coming? That's the question.

[webrunner5]

11 minutes ago, DBounce said:

I had a play with this camera at NAB, the screen is a reasonable size, though not as high a quality as you would find on a high-end smartphone. It will do for the purpose. I wish it was a "flippy" screen though. When is the footage coming? That's the question.

Well the screen on it is a pretty big improvement over the 5" with 800 x 480 resolution BMCC screen. It is 5” with 1920 x 1080. No clue what the pixel count is though.

Yeah would be nice to see some footage. On paper though they have say 2 1/2 months, or a bit more to meet the September shipping timeline.

[Anaconda_]

16 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

On paper though they have say 2 1/2 months, or a bit more to meet the September shipping timeline.

B&H reckon they'll be shipping on September 3rd. That's 5 weeks from now. That's not very far away at all. I would have thought with so little time between now and delivery, BM would know by now if they're going to meet the target date or not. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if they already have warehouses in a few countries full of packed up cameras ready to ship out. 

 

Then again, I have no idea of the manufacturing and shipping industries... maybe they'll make and pack them all on the 2nd for next day global delivery. ?

[webrunner5]

4 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

B&H reckon they'll be shipping on September 3rd. That's 5 weeks from now. That's not very far away at all. I would have thought with so little time between now and delivery, BM would know by now if they're going to meet the target date or not. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if they already have warehouses in a few countries full of packed up cameras ready to ship out. 

 

Then again, I have no idea of the manufacturing and shipping industries... maybe they'll make and pack them all on the 2nd for next day global delivery. ?

Ehh there is all of July, all of August and 4 days in this month, and the 3 days of September. Your math is sort of funny LoL. ?

[TwoScoops]

7 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

B&H reckon they'll be shipping on September 3rd. That's 5 weeks from now.

[Anaconda_]

Haha hilarious! I opened a calendar and counted until 5th August. That's fantastic.

Edit: 5th of any month is irrelevant anyway - Doubling down on stupidity today!

[webrunner5]

LMAO.

[kye]

7 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

You can add noise just as easy as film grain. Different things. Noise is not film grain. Years ago we added noise to cover up poor resolution. It was a TV trick for years for early ENG cameras..

I've seen people add noise in preparation of harsh compression to prevent banding and other compression artefacts, especially for online compression.

It's a common technique - they add noise in audio under very specific situations because it can lower artefacts (dither).

6 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Speaking of BM 4K BMPCC screens. There is this photo I found. It doesn't look too big in this shot. That guy is not that big either.

But we are not going to be able to stick one in our pocket that is for sure!

Oh, I don't know.  There's talk in other threads about just using a small kit lens or a single wide angle, so if you do that and have cargo pants or one of those vests that can take a 70-200 2.8 then it might be just fine!  ?