Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[webrunner5]

13 minutes ago, SR said:

Just saw someone post this on FB:

https://www.coreswx.com/product/pbe-bmpc4/

Claims to power the BMPCC4K for 4 hours.

 

https://www.videoexpert.eu/en/blackmagic-cinema-cameras/core-swx-powerbase-edge-canon-lpe6/  260,00 €, $304.15 United States Dollar

[jonpais]

All I've gotta say is, it's around what I paid for my battery grip for the X-T2 with batteries.

[SR]

I was planning on just buying a bunch of Canon batteries to keep it light. But changing every half hour might drive me nuts.

[webrunner5]

6 minutes ago, jonpais said:

All I've gotta say is, it's around what I paid for my battery grip for the X-T2 with batteries.

Does it last for 4 hours or more? I know my battery grip for my Sony A7s is lucky to last 2 hours of shooting. Now in standby sure yeah, it goes 4, 5 hours.

And I would imagine the PK4 is a power hungry camera. Might mean a "normal" camera could go 6 hours maybe? With that big screen and the fan going I don't see how it can't help but be.

[sanveer]

I attended a Black Magic event today and got to play around with the BMPCC4k for a while (maybe 30 mins or so).

I cannot discuss all my observations for fear of causing unnecessary panic, but I will state a few things I noticed. 

1. The autofocus is not the best, but with the M43 lens advantage, and focus peaking  things should be fine.

2. A lot of firmware features were disabled and flavours of ProRes were limited along with recording capabilities, to prevent people from sharing random non final firmware footage.

3. The on-board fans for the camera were not only absolutely silent, they were also unnoticeable (I put my finger over the vents and noticed almost nothing).

4. The Windowed HD is a substantial crop. So Metabones may make a BMPCC4k specific adaptor (which would be essential IMHO).

5. Low Light seems decent. I would like to compare the GH5s with it, though the Black Magic doesn't seem to have any noise reduction, and so at higher ISOs, noise seemed visible (as was the high level of detail in the image). I think once a few units reach reviewers, I would love to see this reviewed for low light, among other things.

6. I found it to be heavy with cinema lenses. But I guess this may have been due to the lenses more than the body. Also after the composite, it should shave off at least 100gms off the weight. 

7. Very impressive ergonomics. Especially the wheels the grip.

After Panasonic's IBIS + OIS we're literally spoit if anything doesn't offer anything like that (Canon cameras?), it's a little disappointing (I know stabilizers are good enough).

I feel Blackmagic is working with a lot of accessory makers. I hope they get a battery grip with atleast 3 hours of juice. 

If Panasonic tweaks the VLog, I am sure they can easily get atleast another Stop of Dynamic Range out of the cameras (if not more).

I realised that M43 is in need of a very fast zoom lens with a decent Range (f2 12-36mm). They could make it fat or large, who really cares. And it must have good OIS (for cameras that don't have IBIS).

[Snowfun]

11 minutes ago, sanveer said:

I cannot discuss all my observations for fear of causing unnecessary panic, 

Isn’t making such a statement the best way of causing panic?

But interesting observations - thank you. Any indication of when official footage might be available? 

[sanveer]

51 minutes ago, Snowfun said:

Isn’t making such a statement the best way of causing panic?

But interesting observations - thank you. Any indication of when official footage might be available? 

I am guessing that there may be a slight delay, though nowhere near the 1-1.5 years the original pocket cinema camera. It could be a few weeks if not days. They already seemed to have tested it, but think the footage is still be tweaked even further. Also, they want to push the sensor to the max, within the limitations of the processor.

Every organisation has a common attitude, that trickles down from the top. Grant Petty seems to know what he wants, and he isn't in a rat race. He actually doesn't care at all for the rats, and that's why the profit margins are smaller, and Black Magic doesn't have inflated advertising costs and no unnecessary freebies for anyone. Also, Grant doesn't seem to be in any particular hurry to be a billionaire, with all the hyperbole advertising and specs (ala 'Cinemartin Fran 8K', or 4k at 480fps blah blah blah), endemic to the industry. Blackmagic has had its set of firmware and feature hiccups. But for the price, I doubt anyone comes close.

In many ways he and blackmagic design embody the true meaning of 'disruptive' without the glorified presstitute fanfare. 

[majoraxis]

Here's a link to an article about Grant Petty.

https://www.smartcompany.com.au/entrepreneurs/influencers-profiles/blackmagic-design-founder-grant-petty-on-how-a-burning-revelation-led-him-to-create-his-300-million-video-technology-company/

I have much respect for the way he and his company does not over charge, even though they could charge more if they wanted too.  In particular, the updates to Black Magic's Resolve Studio have been free of charge over the years and now they are basically throwing it in with the Black Magic Pocket Cinema Camera 4k.  Yes, I would pay $1295 for the Pocket Cinema Camera 4k without Resolve Studio..

If it takes a few days, weeks, or months past the end of September to ship the Pocket Cinema Camera 4k,  I will still be extremely happy with Black Magic, once I have my Pocket Cinema Camera 4k in my hands.  IMHO, it will be more than worth the wait.

[kye]

6 hours ago, sanveer said:

I attended a Black Magic event today and got to play around with the BMPCC4k for a while (maybe 30 mins or so).

I cannot discuss all my observations for fear of causing unnecessary panic, but I will state a few things I noticed. 

1. The autofocus is not the best, but with the M43 lens advantage, and focus peaking  things should be fine.

2. A lot of firmware features were disabled and flavours of ProRes were limited along with recording capabilities, to prevent people from sharing random non final firmware footage.

3. The on-board fans for the camera were not only absolutely silent, they were also unnoticeable (I put my finger over the vents and noticed almost nothing).

4. The Windowed HD is a substantial crop. So Metabones may make a BMPCC4k specific adaptor (which would be essential IMHO).

5. Low Light seems decent. I would like to compare the GH5s with it, though the Black Magic doesn't seem to have any noise reduction, and so at higher ISOs, noise seemed visible (as was the high level of detail in the image). I think once a few units reach reviewers, I would love to see this reviewed for low light, among other things.

6. I found it to be heavy with cinema lenses. But I guess this may have been due to the lenses more than the body. Also after the composite, it should shave off at least 100gms off the weight. 

7. Very impressive ergonomics. Especially the wheels the grip.

After Panasonic's IBIS + OIS we're literally spoit if anything doesn't offer anything like that (Canon cameras?), it's a little disappointing (I know stabilizers are good enough).

I feel Blackmagic is working with a lot of accessory makers. I hope they get a battery grip with atleast 3 hours of juice. 

If Panasonic tweaks the VLog, I am sure they can easily get atleast another Stop of Dynamic Range out of the cameras (if not more).

I realised that M43 is in need of a very fast zoom lens with a decent Range (f2 12-36mm). They could make it fat or large, who really cares. And it must have good OIS (for cameras that don't have IBIS).

Thanks for the update!!

The way I view this camera is for high quality in relatively controlled conditions - so the lack of features like fast AF and NR seems appropriate.  Pulling focus manually is the norm for a cinema camera, and the lack of NR is actually an advantage I think because you can de-noise carefully in post, using the Resolve spatial and temporal NR features or plugins, for the best possible result.

The substantial crop in windowed 1080 is encouraging, as for those capturing in 1080 it gives a good extension to their existing lens collection.

The more I hear about this camera the more I think that BM is going to absolutely nail it for the low budget film-maker.  Bring on the Pocket2 vs ARRI youtube clips!

[IronFilm]

13 hours ago, sanveer said:

1. The autofocus is not the best, but with the M43 lens advantage, and focus peaking  things should be fine.

 

No surprise there!
 

13 hours ago, sanveer said:

 2. A lot of firmware features were disabled and flavours of ProRes were limited along with recording capabilities, to prevent people from sharing random non final firmware footage.

Sensible, it was either that or gluing everything shut!

Did they only allow say ProRes Proxy?! I'd guess that.

 

13 hours ago, sanveer said:

 3. The on-board fans for the camera were not only absolutely silent, they were also unnoticeable (I put my finger over the vents and noticed almost nothing).

Yay!

 

13 hours ago, sanveer said:

 4. The Windowed HD is a substantial crop. So Metabones may make a BMPCC4k specific adaptor (which would be essential IMHO).

Nooooooooooooooooooo!
Is this RAW HD? Or does the ProRes HD not read from the full sensor size? (like say the UMP does even if you're recording less than the full resolution in ProRes)

 

13 hours ago, sanveer said:

I realised that M43 is in need of a very fast zoom lens with a decent Range (f2 12-36mm). They could make it fat or large, who really cares. And it must have good OIS (for cameras that don't have IBIS).

Agreed.

 

[Savannah Miller]

 

The Core SWX battery pack claims 4-hours of runtime.  Not the most perfect, form-fitting battery pack but it will do the job.  It's not a grip that holds multiple batteries, but I'm not sure you'd get 3 hours out of a battery grip with 3 batteries anyway.

The windowed HD being referenced would be for Slow motion 120fps or RAW only.  Otherwise you can do full sensor

One of the areas I find problematic is what do you define as the "low budget filmmaker?"  If you're truly low-budget then you might find a camera with IBIS and autofocus easier to use like the Panasonic GH5.

If you're low budget, but above that tier that needs IBIS and Autofocus, then the Ursa Mini Pro is the right camera.  Other than for tight spaces where you can't fit a certain camera, traveling, crash/action, and stealing shots, there's not a lot of scenarios where I can think that the Pocket 4K is an A camera.

One thing Blackmagic does seem to do differently is they build a brand new color science and color gamuts for all of their cameras that use different sensors.  The BMPCC, 4.6K and BMPC all have different color science.  This one will be no different

[sanveer]

4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Sensible, it was either that or gluing everything shut!

Did they only allow say ProRes Proxy?! I'd guess that.

I think there was a single flavour of ProRes on the Camera. 

 

4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Nooooooooooooooooooo!
Is this RAW HD? Or does the ProRes HD not read from the full sensor size? (like say the UMP does even if you're recording less than the full resolution in ProRes)

I am guessing all ProRes and RAW 1080p will be in this windowed mode. It's pretty substantial. With the metabones adaptor coming out (hopefully around the same time around which the camera starts hitting stores), the crop would be substantially reduced (and the image substantially brighter). 

[majoraxis]

If it is a pixel for pixel crop for 1080p then in it's 4/3 to 2/3's so the options are limited if you want to go high quality wide angle.  With a 4x crop factor compared to full frame 6mm would be a 24 mm equivalent.  Here are some lens options.

 

3.5 mm Abakus 381-S16 Super 16mm Ultra-Wide Stadium Lens  PL Mount - PL to m4/3's adapter (probably a rental for most people at $17k retail) (14mm FF Equivalent)

4.8mm Schneider 2/3"  C-Mount Cinegon Compact Lens ($1,500) Fixed-Focal Lens (19.2 mm FF Equivalent)

6mm Tamron C-Mount 2/3" Machine Vision Fixed-Focal Lens ($420) Fixed-Focal Lens (24 mm FF Equivalent)

6.23mm Fujinon HF6XA-5M 2/3" Machine Vision Lens ($420) Seems to have a Focus ring (25 mm FF Equivalent)

6.5mm Tamron High Resolution C-Mount Lens ($129)  Fixed-Focal Lens (26mm FF Equivalent)

Note: because of the size constraints of the c-mount to m4/3 adapter rear of the c-mount lens mount sometimes has to be ground and the above lens have not been tested.

 

For zoom lenses, B4 lenses can be adapted with an optical adapter to compensate of the lack of prism in the optical path.

The Fujinon 13x4.5 and 14x4.5 would be 5.94 mm at the wide end with the the Abakus 132 B4 to Super 16 PL adapter. Add at PL to m4/3 adapter. (23.8mm FF Equivalent)

The Canon 11x4.7 would be 6.20 mm at the wide end with the Abakus 132 B4 to Super 16 PL adapter. Add at PL to m4/3 adapter. (24.8 mm FF Equivalent)

Additional B4 options would include:

The  Abakus 381 B4 Ultra-Wide Stadium Lens 3.5mm would be 4.62mm at the wide end with the Abakus 132 B4 to Super 16 PL adapter. Add at PL to m4/3 adapter. (18.5mm FF Equivalent)

Zeiss DigiWide 3.9mm would be 5.15 mm at the wide end with the Abakus 132 B4 to Super 16 PL adapter. Add at PL to m4/3 adapter. (20.6mm FF Equivalent)

Zeiss DigiPrime 5mm would be 6.6 mm at the wide end with the Abakus 132 B4 to Super 16 PL adapter. Add at PL to m4/3 adapter. (26.4 mm FF Equivalent) not super wide but added for reference.

Panasonic m4/3 zoom 

Panasonic Lumix G Vario 7-14mm f/4 ASPH. Lens (28mm FF Equivalent) not super wide but worth a mention.

Please let me know what other wide angle (non fisheye) equivalent or combinations are available.

[Anaconda_]

39 minutes ago, majoraxis said:

Please let me know what other wide angle (non fisheye) equivalent or combinations are available.

Why not fisheye? The crop will crop out most of the distortion. Sure it will look a little different to a linear wide angle, but not too much.

Edit:

This is a from a clip I shot with a JVC LS300 testing the 120fps mode. I'm not sure of the crop factor in that setting, but the lens is a EF mount Samyang 8mm fisheye with a dumb adaptor (not speedbooster) As you can see, there's no distortion at all.

------

@IronFilm The windowed HD on the P4K is only in the 120fps mode.

[majoraxis]

@ Anaconda_  good point about using the center part of the fish eye lens - I should have said that I would like to know of wide angle lenses that don't look fish eyed when they are use on the Pocket 4k in 1080p 120 crop mode.

That image looks good. It would be interesting to see how that lens would look with a speed booster to get as much width as possible on the 1080p 120 mode.

[Mokara]

On ‎7‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 1:36 PM, majoraxis said:

Here's a link to an article about Grant Petty.

https://www.smartcompany.com.au/entrepreneurs/influencers-profiles/blackmagic-design-founder-grant-petty-on-how-a-burning-revelation-led-him-to-create-his-300-million-video-technology-company/

I have much respect for the way he and his company does not over charge, even though they could charge more if they wanted too.  In particular, the updates to Black Magic's Resolve Studio have been free of charge over the years and now they are basically throwing it in with the Black Magic Pocket Cinema Camera 4k.  Yes, I would pay $1295 for the Pocket Cinema Camera 4k without Resolve Studio..

If it takes a few days, weeks, or months past the end of September to ship the Pocket Cinema Camera 4k,  I will still be extremely happy with Black Magic, once I have my Pocket Cinema Camera 4k in my hands.  IMHO, it will be more than worth the wait.

Lol....the reason they don't "over charge" is because really low price is the only reason people would buy these systems. 

[John Brawley]

 

1 hour ago, Mokara said:

Lol....the reason they don't "over charge" is because really low price is the only reason people would buy these systems. 

I guess you’re right...

 

[Tone1k]

1 hour ago, Mokara said:

Lol....the reason they don't "over charge" is because really low price is the only reason people would buy these systems. 

Absolute nonesense. 

Davinci resolve was (and still is) the industry standard for colouring and do you know how much it cost before Blackmagic got their hands on it, improved it and brought the price down to the few hundred dollars it is today? 

Blackmagic could charge much more for most of their products and users would still buy them but they choose not to. 

[Germy1979]

I’ve owned 3 bmcc 2.5k, and 1 pocket cam.  I had an issue with 2 Bmcc’s - (black magic confirmed and replaced them.  They were fantastic in the process).  All 4 cameras were plagued with FPN.  I don’t shoot in the dark and don’t expect an A7S, but the noise sucked.  I haven’t shot with the Ursa 4.6 pro, but i was really hoping for a cleaner image on the new pocket.  

[webrunner5]

19 minutes ago, Germy1979 said:

I’ve owned 3 bmcc 2.5k, and 1 pocket cam.  I had an issue with 2 Bmcc’s - (black magic confirmed and replaced them.  They were fantastic in the process).  All 4 cameras were plagued with FPN.  I don’t shoot in the dark and don’t expect an A7S, but the noise sucked.  I haven’t shot with the Ursa 4.6 pro, but i was really hoping for a cleaner image on the new pocket.  

I don't think BMD's end goal is super clean to be honest. They build Cine Cameras, and that look doesn't equate clean to me especially at the money they charge. Sure could they be better, and yeah and I do expect it to be cleaner using basically the GH5s sensor. The Kinefinity looks clean using it also. So there is some hope for you LoL.

But you know it is going to have some BMPCC Mojo in it.