Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[Dave Maze]

I formed my own opinion before reading the recent posts in this thread and my opinion based on the three videos Blackmagic has posted initially is that this thing does not deliver in the ways we all expect a Blackmagic camera to deliver. 

Its not bad at all and if Sony put out a camera that looked this good we would all be over the moon. 

But as a former BMCC 2.5k owner and BMPCC owner/ operator I can tell you flat out that this BMPCC 4K sensor is not looking as “Alexa like” as literally ALL of Blackmagics other cameras. 

It has seemed since day one that the goal of Blackmagic cameras was to emulate Alexa as much as possible. I’m not seeing that with the bmpcc4k and I think that’s why everyone is so confused. It’s not what we expect. 

It’s not bad, but it’s not what we expected. 

I can’t wait to get my hands on one and do some of my own proper tests. 

[webrunner5]

25 minutes ago, Jim Giberti said:

Again, I was part of the blind test. I've built several recording studios and produced thousands of cuts.

It's more than belief.

So how did they get the hiss out of the tapes, pops and clicking on the records. Oh I bet they Digitally enhanced them. Because every tape has hiss, and every record, even brand new, has clicks and pops.

Oh I will agree, especially when you get older you can't hear the highs and lows like you could. But I would argue you actually feel the real low stuff more than you hear it, so not sure that end counts. And you have to have a damn near perfect room to hear true Bass. If my memory is still right I think a 40 Hertz sine wave is 14 foot long. So if you have it 7 foot from a wall it basically cancels it's self out. But yeah the high end stuff goes to crap, so the edge that CD's have in more range ability goes away and the playing field gets more even.

[seanzzxx]

Great discussion of the Pocket4k. Maybe just PM each other?

[webrunner5]

44 minutes ago, seanzzxx said:

Great discussion of the Pocket4k. Maybe just PM each other?

Well why don't you just fill us in on some juicy new footage or info on the PK4. Hell I got all kind of time to watch. Hmm, not much to see Yet, so, so, hmm I thought so. Or we could just sit here for a week until the next Video shows up and be stuck at ONLY 172 pages busting with total BM news.

I think the subject applies to the new and old BM stuff. I don't like the direction it seems to be going. How about you!! You like the Old or New stuff. Oh BM stuff, to stay on point.

[emielregis]

I am very surprised by the comments about the lack of "film look" in the footage from new pocket. Sure, first two videos with skin tones test did not look perfect in this regard, but the rest? I watched all the clips and I still see this organic, "classic BMD look". But with better, more natural colors, more details etc. compared to original BMPCC.

 My favourite shots

I think that looks way more cinematic than BMPCC. Actually, if someone told me that the mirror shot was filmed with Ursa mini, I would believe him.

Also almost every camera (and lens) have his "weak" moments, I can found on YouTube high amount of BMPCC videos that looks extremaly digital, as if they were shot with cheap DSLR.

[Kieran]

5 hours ago, Myownfriend said:

No it's not. The film making business is about careful planning and polish as is the case with making food. Film and food consumption are about gut reactions... the second more literally than the first.  

Well as we are talking about initial reactions to the footage served up to us, that's the equivalent of consuming isn't it?

i feel I have to stress that I'm not hating on this camera at all. The image has just got a different feel to their previous releases which was a bit of a surprise -  but I am looking forward to working with it. The camera is a absolute steal for what it offers.  

[wyrlyn]

The only thing I am afraid of is the low light capab. of this cam. What I have seen from the last clip there are so much noise in the shots, and that is just ISO 3200. I know the price and stuff but I expected better results with dual native iso. Maybe I have just wait for more low light stuff and judge.

[sanveer]

29 minutes ago, wyrlyn said:

The only thing I am afraid of is the low light capab. of this cam. What I have seen from the last clip there are so much noise in the shots, and that is just ISO 3200. I know the price and stuff but I expected better results with dual native iso. Maybe I have just wait for more low light stuff and judge.

In Dual Native ISO cameras, the higher native ISO always has More noise. Check the video embedded below. 

https://www.newsshooter.com/2018/08/28/kinefinity-mavo-lf-dual-native-iso-birtv-2018/

[Ki Rin]

If only it had IBIS. 

[deezid]

I think the only reason it looks less organic is that basically every clip besides the Balloon one is sharpened and looks like a simple BMD Log to Rec709 conversion was applied.

[Kieran]

3 minutes ago, deezid said:

I think the only reason it looks less organic is that basically every clip besides the Balloon one is sharpened and looks like a simple BMD Log to Rec709 conversion was applied.

Is there a way to turn down sharpening in camera?

[deezid]

3 minutes ago, Kieran said:

Is there a way to turn down sharpening in camera?

I really don't think (or hope) it's done in camera. BM never did that before. They always delivered a RAW like image in ProRes with all the nice looking grain and smoothness, very much like ARRI and Red do.

Don't really care about chroma noise. 
Easy fix in Davinci Resolve without losing texture.

[Anaconda_]

18 minutes ago, deezid said:

They always delivered a RAW like image in ProRes with all the nice looking grain and smoothness, very much like ARRI and Red do.

I think if BM re-released these clips with no post adjustments, people's reactions would be on a totally different level. I find it hard to judge the camera based on another person's grading.

I'd and I think most others would be over the moon if they uploaded a handful of files straight off the card along with a text document with the cameras settings.

Even just 1 shot from each of these videos.

But I know they won't be doing that. hopefully when the first shipment goes out, people will be sharing that kind of thing. I will if mine arrive before there's loads of other footage available.

[Robin]

8 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Sorry to ruin your day, but it does! It is WAY better.

Everyone has opinions but for my part I'm with you 100%. I base this on having ran 3 recording studios, one of which has a 24 track studer tape machine and large vintage cadac desk. To me the difference is always instant and obvious. Blind or not. Still record digital 99% of the time tho ?

I also enjoy cameras that have a touch of mojo. I'm mainly using my Fuji xh1 in place of my gh5 for this reason. Canon c100/300, digital bolex d16, bmpcc,gh2 and Fuji give me the images I like. I had a Sony for while and made a couple of music vids but the image just isn't quite right for me even after grading 

[jpfilmz]

4 hours ago, emielregis said:

I am very surprised by the comments about the lack of "film look" in the footage from new pocket. Sure, first two videos with skin tones test did not look perfect in this regard, but the rest? I watched all the clips and I still see this organic, "classic BMD look". But with better, more natural colors, more details etc. compared to original BMPCC.

 My favourite shots

I think that looks way more cinematic than BMPCC. Actually, if someone told me that the mirror shot was filmed with Ursa mini, I would believe him.

Also almost every camera (and lens) have his "weak" moments, I can found on YouTube high amount of BMPCC videos that looks extremaly digital, as if they were shot with cheap DSLR.

Agreed.  

[IronFilm]

On 8/30/2018 at 8:31 PM, Mattias Burling said:

No EF. And lets agree to disagree on the sensor, I love it

What do you love about it?

The low base ISO (that you really can't go up from) however raises a lot of practical issues when shooting with it for most people. 

 

[Bioskop.Inc]

I still can't believe people are trying to compare a camera which shot HD with one that shoots 4K. It's like when we moved from SD to HD (here i'm refering to the TV world back then) - all the tests, all the moaning & then the slow realisation that we would have to change the way we did things.

What BM have given us so far are 3 different tests, using 3 different types of lenses & thus gave us 3 different shooting styles. Yes, i thought John's looked the best - lens choice & experience?  But the Balloon film was meant to show off what a Documentary style piece could achieve - there was never a point where I thought it should look cinematic. The Nature piece really showed of the DR in extreme circumstances, but I could really do without ever seeing another piece made with that Sigma zoom, absolutely hate that thing, yuck - if someone gave me one for free, I'd sell it & buy something else. 

I laughed when Frank (over at BMUser) slapped on the Tokina ATX Pro to his BM4.6K last year & it shone - then everyone went scrambling for one. This is a lens we've known about here for ages (thanks to Andy Lee) & how could you go wrong with such a lens - it's an Angenieux recipe lens that screams that cinema feel/image. If you slap on an over sharp modern photography lens, as is, you're going to get that video look in 4K - it's not rocket science. Maybe, just maybe, you might need to really start thinking about what you pair with this camera & stop thinking that it's only the camera.

The recommendation has always been to invest in glass, not camera bodies - that's really where the mojo starts & ends. I wonder what that Nikon "Bourne" lens would look like on the P4K, probably amazing!?

[IronFilm]

20 hours ago, mechanicalEYE said:

I hate to, but guys take a look at this nonsense:

some cameras really make people mentally check out

So stupid, as if BMD was dumb enough to fake footage, they wouldn't use another small camera to create this fake "awesome footage", they'd use a big ARRI ALEXA or their own UMP!

 

10 hours ago, Kieran said:

Musical analogies aside, there seem to be a lot of people who feel the same way I do. It would be a good idea for BMD to release a 'nostalgic' look video to show that the classic Pocket look can still be achieved with the new one. 

A very good idea!
But probably wouldn't shut up those who just want something to complain about.

 

[Mattias Burling]

28 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

What do you love about it?

The low base ISO (that you really can't go up from) however raises a lot of practical issues when shooting with it for most people. 

 

I love the detail without excessive sharpness. The internally downsampled HD that rivals most if not all consumer 4K. The colors. The global shutter. The s35. No moire and no IR pollution.

The ISO is what it is, Ive used in on doc shoots and once I did run into a situation where it was unusable since it was very dark and we couldn't control the lights. We also didn't have an sub f2.8 lenses at the time. But then we just broke out the backup cam. 

[Ki Rin]

3 hours ago, Ki Rin said:

If only it had IBIS. 

Not really sure why I'm getting downvoted for this.. .I understand that for some people its an unimportant feature in a camera like this. 
I'm just saying for me personally, its the only thing stopping it being a pretty perfect camera for me. Still not a deal breaker by any means, but it would be great to have it, in my opinion. 
What's wrong with that?