Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[Emanuel]

I believe we have here not only the comments from the shooter Andrew, also the successful webmaster he simultaneously is. This is all about that on his words, I guess. Let the dust settle down.

As brand player, I'd just appreciate to see their input over here as well. A fair one to begin with.

[Andrew Reid]

15 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

I guess the number of viewers, pages and messages on this thread speak by themselves. Ungratitude is not a fair game.

I've already emailed my contact at Blackmagic in Cheshire about the "ingratitude". He will discuss after IBC, but I don't think I am interested any more.

There is a guy in China with a camera on his desk as I type... so clearly they have been sending out demo units left right and centre. They had 10 places at the hands-on event in Manchester and chose to invite Camera Jabber. As you rightly put it, it's just not a fair game. They either want to support EOSHD or not and they have made that crystal clear and so has John, that they don't value what I have do. I will not be a camera poodle writing adverts and at the same time I will not suffer ingratitude lightly especially from John Brawley insulting me in my own back yard while Blackmagic snub me for a hands-on also in my own backyard.

@jonpais I owe you a sorry... You were right about the guy from the start!

8 minutes ago, OniBaba said:

Looks like "Everybody" has one...?

 

Good finds!! Unbelievable isn't it!?

12 minutes ago, Joseph Moore said:

What a self-defeating reaction to a perceived slight, or at worst, the insensitive words of one man

No it's quite the opposite. It's cathartic. I feel like the pressure is off. I can write what I want, cover what I want. It's my blog.

I don't know if the Pocket 4K Camera as a tool that benefits me yet. I haven't used one! Neither have you!

[Emanuel]

They simply underestimate the thousands of sales they've made from this location. Fact. This is truly disgusting to see. Time for a change.

[vcassel]

Andrew,

Long time lurker; first time poster. Been reading your posts on your site for a long time now. Think I bought a LUT and Canon guide a while back. Have since been a BM URSA Mini 4K user and I've been looking forward to this new camera.

Reading your new blog post is confusing. At first I was like "Who's John Brawley?" Is he the head of BM or something, and that's why you don't want this camera? Turns out that no, he's not. He's just an independent DP. Okay. Does BM know or are they supposed to know that you're from Manchester? I'm not exactly seeing what BM is doing to you that you're protesting them and using your influence as a respected camera blogger to get that word out.

I'm not trying to be insulting. Maybe I'm missing something. But if this is what it looks like, say it isn't so Andrew.

[Adrián P]

1 minute ago, Emanuel said:

They simply underestimate the thousands of sales they've made from this location. This is truly disgusting to see. Time for a change.

Guys, if you want to support @Andrew Reid, please cancel your pre-orders. This will hit them where it hurts.

[Brian Williams]

This camera should flop anyway. I cancelled my pre-order the other day to go with the X-T3. A lot has changed since the original pcoket cam came out, the magic of raw doesn't quite hold up these days. I even went and repurchased my old pocket cam a few weeks ago at the same time that I also purchased a used EOSM for the purpose of shooting raw on it with Magic Lantern- I ended up returning the pocket cam and keeping the EOSM because even at $160 it was a better raw shooter than the BM.

[Emanuel]

11 minutes ago, Adrián P said:

Guys, if you want to support @Andrew Reid, please cancel your pre-orders. This will hit them where it hurts.

Instead, I'd just expect they may address the issue respectfully, no need to harm anyone, ourselves included.

BMD is a welcome player for this game. I am their loyal supporter, so I demand much more over it on topic.

[icarrere]

(sorry to be so rude, english is not my language and usually I am very direct, dont want to hurt sensibilities but to expose my opinion)

I see many contradictions here...

You say you are independent and you are aside the brands;  and by on the other hand you desperately want to be includes in the inner circle of the big brands, to count on you, almost to read your mind: If you wanted to review the camara before the release, perhaps (and only if BM wants) they could let you one IF YOU WROTE THEM BEFORE.

John Brawley has nofhing to do with what you have patheticly and publicly exposed here. You have attacked him with no reason. He shows much more empathy and respect and humildity to his coleagues than you do, little dictator.

I wish I will be able to read John Brawley at BMCusers, or at BlackMagic forums in the future, because here sure I wont. 

[CMB]

I haven't posted here in years, since Andrew Reid publicly berated me for disagreeing with him and belittled my work because I didn't shoot with "a proper camera like a RED or Arri, or even an A7S II ". I'm a nobody, just a cameraman / editor like most of you. A friend told me about this latest rant and I had to dig out my login to say I think this is hilarious. ? 

I've never seen someone throw their toys out the pram so fast. The sense of entitlement here is staggering. Just because you own a somewhat popular camera site doesn't entitle you to anything. I'm sure the 350,000 viewers of this thread (as you keep reminding us) can make up their own mind on whether to purchase a camera. What's especially amusing is that John Brawley doesn't even work for Black Magic and publicly attacking him serves no purpose.

Publicly attacking prominent figures - decrying the press - At this point Andrew Reid / EOSHD is the 'Donald Trump' of camera sites. ☺️

[Phil A]

So we're now publicly shaming people and companies because the host of one of our favorite internet forums didn't get invited to a camera test event that he had no natural entitlement to be at (besides it being a good publicity opportunity for BMD)?

While I can understand the disappointment of Andrew, I think the behavior displayed here will probably reduce future chances regarding any brands' involvements even more. Not exactly professional at all. Why is this forum always so god damn hostile?!

I can't judge if John Brawley is a nice person or not because I don't know him, but I found it rather surprising he was even willing to fight it out with some of us arm chair experts. People here compare his behavior to how Roger Deakins behaves on his forum. Well, I have never seen the people on Deakins' forum question what he says all the time so I think it is not too surprising that eventually there might be rash answers.

I find this really disappointing all in all. This is a forum I really enjoy(ed) to read a lot but the tone is often so negative, aggressive and absolute. I already took some time off the forum a while ago and now I often starting writing posts/replies but then stop and decide not to post at all because the internet tough guy behavior here.

 

Like in all controversial threads, I guess it's again only a question of time for people who disagree to get banned?

[Andrew Reid]

5 minutes ago, vcassel said:

Andrew,

Long time lurker; first time poster. Been reading your posts on your site for a long time now. Think I bought a LUT and Canon guide a while back. Have since been a BM URSA Mini 4K user and I've been looking forward to this new camera.

Reading your new blog post is confusing. At first I was like "Who's John Brawley?" Is he the head of BM or something, and that's why you don't want this camera? Turns out that no, he's not. He's just an independent DP. Okay. Does BM know or are they supposed to know that you're from Manchester? I'm not exactly seeing what BM is doing to you that you're protesting them and using your influence as a respected camera blogger to get that word out.

I'm not trying to be insulting. Maybe I'm missing something. But if this is what it looks like, say it isn't so Andrew.

Hello. Thanks for joining. Back in the GH1 days (2010-11), before we had any Blackmagic cameras at all, EOSHD was mainly about the GH1, and the GH2 after that. Blackmagic came into this market, around 2012 and I was one of the first to shoot with the BMCC and covered it very often on the blog. John Brawley's association with Blackmagic is that he was chosen by the CEO to be the main tester for the camera. Yes he's a Australian network television DP, he doesn't work for the company, but he's something of a figurehead for their cameras. We had the first test footage EVER, from John. We had the first BMCC reviews and a lot of the first news came through John's blog. I've also featured John's opinions and words frequently on EOSHD, but he has never ever given me the same privilege on his side. https://www.eoshd.com/2015/02/john-brawley-reviews-olympus-e-m5-mark-ii/

Yes, Blackmagic know about the blog. Some of them know I am from Manchester but since nobody at all in their UK PR department have kept in touch for the past 2 years, they assumed I was still living in Berlin. It's no excuse anyway. They're an international company sending demo cameras to the Chinese and inviting Italian bloggers to the Manchester event.

Call me childish, call me butt-hurt or whatever, there is just something about the whole Manchester / John Brawley double-insult that I find repellant and hurtful after so many years of writing EOSHD and shooting with Blackmagic's cameras. This forum has had so many topics on the cameras and helped so many people. I've said so many justified good things about their devices on the blog and in my reviews. I'll be the first to admit I'm hurt by such a cold attitude from John on this thread and from Blackmagic as a whole.

[Emanuel]

8 minutes ago, Brian Williams said:

This camera should flop anyway. I cancelled my pre-order the other day to go with the X-T3. (...)

Especially when there are other serious contenders over the corner. All this is business, all this matters to everyone and more sides involved.

[Adrián P]

2 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Instead, I'd just expect they may address the issue respectfully, no need to harm anyone, ourselves included.

BMD is a welcome player for this game. I am their loyal supporter, so I demand much more over it on topic.

More people that cancel, the faster we get our pre-orders

[Emanuel]

Just now, Phil A said:

So we're now publicly shaming people and companies because the host of one of our favorite internet forums didn't get invited to a camera test event that he had no natural entitlement to be at (besides it being a good publicity opportunity for BMD)?

While I can understand the disappointment of Andrew, I think the behavior displayed here will probably reduce future chances regarding any brands' involvements even more. Not exactly professional at all. Why is this forum always so god damn hostile?!

I can't judge if John Brawley is a nice person or not because I don't know him, but I found it rather surprising he was even willing to fight it out with some of us arm chair experts. People here compare his behavior to how Roger Deakins behaves on his forum. Well, I have never seen the people on Deakins' forum question what he says all the time so I think it is not too surprising that eventually there might be rash answers.

I find this really disappointing all in all. This is a forum I really enjoy(ed) to read a lot but the tone is often so negative, aggressive and absolute. I already took some time off the forum a while ago and now I often starting writing posts/replies but then stop and decide not to post at all because the internet tough guy behavior here.

 

Like in all controversial threads, I guess it's again only a question of time for people who disagree to get banned?

A forum is made of different people. The fact people express divergence, that is, you've actually seen the content posted means it hasn't been deleted like happens in many other locations.

[Andrew Reid]

1 minute ago, icarrere said:

You say you are independent and you are aside the brands;  and by on the other hand you desperately want to be includes in the inner circle of the big brands

The nature of the 'inner circle' has a lot of variety.

You can be in an inner circle of "yes men" who only write advertising disguised as reviews.

You can be in an inner circle of professional shooters who are biased towards a particular company, because the relationship with the company helps their work get noticed.

You can be in an inner circle of high profile users offering feedback on a camera, like I am with Panasonic and the GH series.

Or you can be in an inner circle for no other reason to promote your blog about cameras, which is the game Cinema5D is playing.

I don't actually desperately want to be in an 'inner circle' with the big brands, because in the long run it hurts the content on the site. If I were too close to the camera companies I would even start having to censor negative opinions on the forum about particular products, if they doesn't align with being on-message. Why would I want this? Why would I turn my passion and hobby of writing blog posts about my filmmaking and equipment, into unpaid work for the PR agencies and camera companies?

I want only to have the most basic and respectful relationship with a few core companies I respect and use the products of like Panasonic and Blackmagic. I want to be able to review the cameras early and at a cost which is acceptable for me, because I can't go around spending $10,000 a month on new gear just to review it.

In addition, if a company is getting an absolute ton of attention on my blog, it is only right that they recognise it and help me out a bit.

1 minute ago, icarrere said:

I wish I will be able to read John Brawley at BMCusers, or at BlackMagic forums in the future, because here sure I wont. 

Good. Close the door after you, there's a very chilly draft!

[hijodeibn]

17 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I've already emailed my contact at Blackmagic in Cheshire about the "ingratitude". He will discuss after IBC, but I don't think I am interested any more.

There is a guy in China with a camera on his desk as I type... so clearly they have been sending out demo units left right and centre. They had 10 places at the hands-on event in Manchester and chose to invite Camera Jabber. As you rightly put it, it's just not a fair game. They either want to support EOSHD or not and they have made that crystal clear and so has John, that they don't value what I have do. I will not be a camera poodle writing adverts and at the same time I will not suffer ingratitude lightly especially from John Brawley insulting me in my own back yard while Blackmagic snub me for a hands-on also in my own backyard.

@jonpais I owe you a sorry... You were right about the guy from the start!

Good finds!! Unbelievable isn't it!?

No it's quite the opposite. It's cathartic. I feel like the pressure is off. I can write what I want, cover what I want. It's my blog.

I don't know if the Pocket 4K Camera as a tool that benefits me yet. I haven't used one! Neither have you!

Wow....everybody got a BMP4K except Andrew, I do understand Andrew´s feelings, they were morally forced to invite him to the Manchester event after all the propaganda Andrew has made during the years for BM products......and BY FREE!!!!!!

Really a bad move from BM, well, but anyway this is probably a great oppotunity, may be now Andrew could get a Canon-R instead and give us the review we are all waiting for that new baby...

At the end, I think Andrew should stop promoting some times with so much passion some Brands that never recognise all his hard work, I remember BM sitting with NFS to explain their Camera in a very promotional Video, if they had the time to do that, at least they should have invited Andrew to Manchester event.....well, it is what it is, let´s just continue with this forum which is by far the best out there....and the only one honest!!!!!

[Andrew Reid]

8 minutes ago, Phil A said:

So we're now publicly shaming people and companies because the host of one of our favorite internet forums didn't get invited to a camera test event that he had no natural entitlement to be at (besides it being a good publicity opportunity for BMD)?

No, you're wrong. I deserved to be there 100%, in fact it was the least Blackmagic could do to repay me for many years of support I have shown them.

8 minutes ago, Phil A said:

While I can understand the disappointment of Andrew, I think the behavior displayed here will probably reduce future chances regarding any brands' involvements even more. Not exactly professional at all. Why is this forum always so god damn hostile?!

The future chances are reduced that's true.

I have made a choice.

To speak freely. Feels good. It's a lot healthier than being "professional". Who wants to be a professional camera reviewer writing only positive things all the time? DULL!

The reason EOSHD will not get an early peek at the Pocket 4K is because I one of the honest ones. In the end do you want EOSHD to be an inflight lifestyle magazine or a reliable resource for camera info?

[IronFilm]

47 minutes ago, Adrián P said:

I couldn't understand a single word he said.

I understood a few words, like when he said "ISO". But I'll have to get my gf to explain the rest

[Andrew Reid]

6 minutes ago, hijodeibn said:

I remember BM sitting with NFS to explain their Camera in a very promotional Video

NoFilmSchool would have chased that opportunity like there's no tomorrow, like a yappy little fucking poodle. I am not going to do it! I refuse to lower myself to that level. Blackmagic do read the blog and know it's up there in the top 3 in the world for covering their cameras, so the radio silence is even more unacceptable. It was their move, not mine.

[Turboguard]

Should this thread be renamed perhaps? And a new thread about the P4K, were we talk about the P4K, maybe be made?