Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[webrunner5]

Yeah "Cirque du Soleil" seems to apply LoL.

[nathanleebush]

One of the realities of being a EOSHD reader is the occasional Andrew Reid temper tantrums and flame wars. As something of a self-righteously indignant flame war enthusiast myself, I recognize his reaction. Still, it seems like ultimately Brawley is right, BM is sharing this cameras with working pros, not enthusiasts. I don't know where Andrew makes his money to buy all these cameras, but pretty sure it's not shooting ads or features. No offense, I enjoy his videos and his color work and his idiosyncratic taste, but he's not exactly the industry perspective, which is apparently what BM is seeking. 

[Anaconda_]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

When the hell it is Really going to ship?

We're now coming close to half way through the month and BMD are still saying they're aiming for September release. They've also said they have an announcement about the camera at IBC, which starts this Friday. My money is that they'll be shipping next week, but it's a total guess.

The fact that the unboxing a few pages back is supposedly from the first retail batch of cameras in China also hints that camera stores have received their shipments and are waiting for the green light to stack the shelves and delivery vans. Hopefully those camera stores are in most countries around the world as BMD have also stated that they're planning the same global release day.

Fingers crossed I'm right.

 

[noone]

27 minutes ago, nathanleebush said:

. Still, it seems like ultimately Brawley is right, BM is sharing this cameras with working pros, not enthusiasts.

He ALSO said that NO vloggers or reviewers were invited to that Manchester event but the YouTube videos from the likes of Cinema5d and others says otherwise.

At the end of the day, Andrew does not NEED BlackMagic, I guess BM now thinks it doesn't need EOSHD.

I think there are two separate issues.     It is clear that John Brawley is NOT an employee of BM (not directly anyway) but it is clear that Andrew Reid WAS snubbed by BM (clear to me anyway).

[Garug]

After reading this https://www.eoshd.com/2018/09/why-i-wont-be-buying-the-upcoming-blackmagic-pocket-cinema-camera-4k/ I can only smile and had to come here to ask, is this a kindergarten :)

[Rob6]

Andrew mentioned in the article that what black magic offers is a great codec. Another huge plus is the recording with usb c SSDs. I hope this camera is a huge success so all the other companies (Sony, canon, Panasonic, etc) give us better codecs like raw capure and 60p in their sub 3k cameras! I am tired of the tiny improvements we get with each one of the other camera companies sub 3k cameras. Hopefully this camera changes the industry direction. I think it could! 

Andrew, 

Its all good. Don’t let these guys get to you. Love your site and opinions on the industry. Like I read from someone earlier, you are a master of the written word and I look forward to always reading your thoughts! Thanks!

[Glenn Thomas]

I guess John’s response kind defines the difference between a blogger who makes films versus a film maker with a blog. 

All I will say is, for anyone wasting time on forums posting about unreleased cameras.. Stop farting around and instead go and shoot more films on whatever camera you already own. And make that a daily ritual whenever you feel the urge to log on to a forum to see if some one replied to your last comment. Do this, and you will become a master of your art.

[Oliver Daniel]

When I first read EOSHD I had no idea what people were talking about. People going on about this 4:2:2 and other confusing stuff. 

It’s a more animated forum than elsewhere. It’s more diverse. More honest. Everyone seems happy to help. 

[Chris Whitten]

2 hours ago, noone said:

but it is clear that Andrew Reid WAS snubbed by BM (clear to me anyway).

Who cares. Freebies and review copies are always a privilege, not a right. I'm a professional in a different field and based on your criteria I'm 'snubbed' by 95% of all the gear makers in my field.

[newfoundmass]

21 minutes ago, Chris Whitten said:

Who cares. Freebies and review copies are always a privilege, not a right. I'm a professional in a different field and based on your criteria I'm 'snubbed' by 95% of all the gear makers in my field.

I don't think he was asking for a freebie, given he had the camera pre-ordered, he was asking to be invited to check out the camera during a gathering in his hometown. You're comparing apples to oranges anyway. Camera manufacturers depend a lot on blogs, forums, YouTubers, etc. to grow and inform their customers. BMD themselves have benefited from the coverage given on EOSHD, one of the first sites to seriously look at their camera offerings. 

I don't agree with the blog post he made going after JB, I think he could've handled this differently (I think Andrew conceded that himself) but he was absolutely within his right to feel insulted and to voice that. 

[sanveer]

 

The SHEER number of Fake Profiles by supposedly new members (banned members with fake new IDs), and International Trolls from places as far away as Egypt and other places seems to have terribly swelled of late.

 

There should a Rule in Place, making it mandatory for new members to have a cooling off period, from the time of registration to the time of first posting (maybe a week), and then another 24 hours before each of the next 3 posts. There are just too many trolls and IDs by a handful of lurking members whose raison d'être is solely to troll across all communities where open and free debates are encouraged and allowed. While their contributions to tech and filmmaking is bland or non-existent, their trolling is way too much. 

[nigelbb]

I find it hilariously ironic that a couple of days after writing a post on "Why the camera press need to grow a pair of balls" decrying freebies & junkets that Andrew throws his toys out of the pram because BM didn't invite him to one of their junkets. Then Andrew declares that he is so pissed off with being snubbed that he is going cancel his pre-order of their camera. This all comes over as unbelievably petulant & childish behaviour.

Andrew then goes on to compound this by posting a ranting blog insulting John Bawley who is one of the rare professional cinematographers who posts on this forum. JB has nothing to do with whether Andrew got invited to the junket or not but that seems irrelevant as he just gets caught in the blowback of Andrew's rage.

[wondo]

andrew,

i know you and the fact that they fear your honest opinion honors you.

so don`t worry about not being invited etc.. and maybe rant a little less about it...

i know an honest review if i see one and i`m pretty fed up with the "friendly" ones that come as a return favor.

so please give less of a shit about what mediocre tv shooters that are on bm`s payroll say and keep up the good work!

best,

wondo

[newfoundmass]

7 minutes ago, nigelbb said:

Andrew then goes on to compound this by posting a ranting blog insulting John Bawley who is one of the rare professional cinematographers who posts on this forum. JB has nothing to do with whether Andrew got invited to the junket or not but that seems irrelevant as he just gets caught in the blowback of Andrew's rage.

Be fair: JB chose to comment on the issue and did so in a cold, seemingly condescending way. JB could've written and said the same thing in a better way. 

Does that justify Andrew's behavior? Could he have handled things differently? I think he could've. He's clearly frustrated and he let it get to him. Hopefully all parties talk things over and remedy things. 

Ultimately it's easier for all of us to shrug things off, as we aren't putting time and resources into the site, dealing with camera makers directly, and all the other politics that comes with running a site like this. 

[Chris Whitten]

1 hour ago, newfoundmass said:

but he was absolutely within his right to feel insulted and to voice that. 

it's odd when anyone thinks they deserve anything.

 

Other than that - never mind. 

[Django]

I must admit I was kind of shocked to read Andrew’s latest blog entry and it’s conclusion.. especially only days after decrying said press junkets and praising JB. But I understand this must have hit too close from home and to add insult to injury I’m sure BMD (a smaller word of mouth company) has sold a shit ton of cameras thanks to this site and could have made the effort to reach out. JB's reply visibly felt like a stab in the back. I think both parties are blowing this out of proportion.

I do find it disheartening to see such feud amongst a host and one of it’s most popular contributors and sincerely hope they can work things out.

In any case, I value this site and I’m sure right now is a tense time to manage and review gear ahead of what is announcing itself like an explosive photokina edition and hence would like to show my support to Mr.Reid, even if I don't always share his views. This is his planet.

The guy has done a pretty amazing job with this site imo and deserves to be cut a little slack, wether you agree or not with his latest article and/or handling of the situation.

We're all human beings and have our good/bad days. Let's not jump to any hurtful conslusions.

I do feel an overall tense vibe here and beyond lately. Surely the recent announcements by all the big players has had a dramatic & divisive effect on the photo/video community.

We should all relax a bit over the current state of gear announcements, our excitement/ disappointments, frustrations,  etc.. in the end we all share a common passion and this is all beneficial to us as consumers. So many options out there and at unprecedented price levels. What a time to be alive!  

[PannySVHS]

12 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

At the end of the day, I reflect on the course this thread just took and I regret it. I stand by my hurt over the camera and snub, but I regret what's happened. Take what you read from everyone on forums with a pinch of salt including even yourself whilst saying it! And including me. I am not myself on the internet sometimes, nobody is. The internet is a weird simulation which is causing issues in real society across the globe all the time. It's not real life, it's a machine-assisted facsimile of it. John Brawley and I would not have behaved the same in real life. The internet is an argument generator and a distorted mirror and I might indeed have to shortly go to the pub and have a stiff drink.

@Andrew Reid you are passionate, very passionate beyond the consequences one should be willing to take for it sometimes:) John Brawleys words have been a bit cold, just cold enough to react to that with heat and temper. And so you did. I am happy to see your hurts go away now slowly. I hope @John Brawley stays on this forum. He just had to put up with a bit too many weird comments in this bmpcc4k thread. Still, he might have liked to have shown more of his kindness towards you which he has been directing towards some akwards posts instead. His patiences has been stetched a bit much sometimes on this thread.

You both are super cool cats, just with hot tempers as well. And ain´t that a great thing, that passion! Thank you both for that! Now please let´s all be passionate friends and filmmakers and nerds again, like we´ve been before. There would still be enough room for passion and honest articles and essays even without anger and pain! cheers

[Anaconda_]

Perhaps its a silly question, but if you're set to shoot in RAW in camera, what kind of signal do you expect to be coming out the hdmi? 

if you then went into the Ninja V, could you have a prores Raw file? or does it not work like that?

I know HDMI out is limited to 1080, but could be interesting for some kind of raw proxy work flow.

I don't need it, but thought it might be an interesting concept.

[Andrew Reid]

2 hours ago, nigelbb said:

I find it hilariously ironic that a couple of days after writing a post on "Why the camera press need to grow a pair of balls" decrying freebies & junkets that Andrew throws his toys out of the pram because BM didn't invite him to one of their junkets. Then Andrew declares that he is so pissed off with being snubbed that he is going cancel his pre-order of their camera. This all comes over as unbelievably petulant & childish behaviour.

Andrew then goes on to compound this by posting a ranting blog insulting John Bawley who is one of the rare professional cinematographers who posts on this forum. JB has nothing to do with whether Andrew got invited to the junket or not but that seems irrelevant as he just gets caught in the blowback of Andrew's rage.

This seems to be a common opinion and not unexpected, but it's a very simplistic reading of the situation.

I don't agree that I am a crybaby upset that he doesn't have a free camera, because I really don't need another camera. I have enough of them as it is!! I've wanted a brief hands-on with the Blackmagic Pocket 4K for the past 5 months and have a pent up annoyance over not getting the insight I need to make any useful articles about it. My aim was to share the information with my friends and wider camera community of like-minded individuals AND to somehow think Blackmagic were appreciative enough of my work at EOSHD over the years, to allow me a rare and small privilege occasionally (would have been nice).

You say I missed out on a 'press junket' but I didn't see it as a 'press junket'. I felt I should have been told about an opportunity in my own backyard to further my understanding of a camera which had generated interest to the tune of 350,000 impressions on a single forum post at my site. It is an interesting camera to a lot of people out there in 2018 and I also had an interest in it as a customer, like some of you. When it comes to the professional camera press junkets, I honestly still don't give a flying pig about them, or blogging with a selfie cam from a hotel room, it is just not how I want to live my life. I don't care about freebies either, but I do about being able to blog and to have access to the tools I need to do that. You see the paradox? Go and read the Camera Press Balls article again with that in mind.

With the Manchester situation, I would have enjoyed to do my friends a service and bring you a review.

Those who I count as friends on here, and elsewhere, have the right to get something useful out of this blog. The others, who have no personal regard for me whatsoever and don't support me but nevertheless visit the blog regularly for information, don't really deserve anything whatsoever. I don't owe you anything. I don't owe it to you to change my opinions or not write certain articles. I don't owe it to somebody I don't know and who doesn't really know me, to change my feelings towards a company I feel slighted by. It's called free speech.

The complainers on this thread, some of whom claim to have read EOSHD for a long, long time (but to my knowledge have never reached out to me before either on this forum or in real life) should bear in mind how incredibly ungrateful they look to almost everyone else here. They have reaped the benefits of this site (and other people's camera knowledge on the forum) for years and years, but are now shown-up to have absolutely zero gratitude to me or to anyone else for what they have learnt. This is dispiriting for me as the editor, because I wonder why I bother, and it is harmful to the group spirit on the forum as well to have leaches.

A difference of opinion is one thing. It's the entitled and cold, robotic "I-expect-Andrew-to-always-provide-for-me" tone that hurts the most. To these people who are upset by the latest article, I don't care if you think the article is "unprofessional" because I literally owe you ZERO professional work. You don't pay for EOSHD like you pay for one of your Blackmagic cameras. Blackmagic and John Brawley are in a exactly the same position as @"Nigel" is and they don't deserve to reap the thousands of sales which have been generated through EOSHD over the past 5 years. Collectively as a company,  and as an individual DP, both have shown absolutely zero gratitude or kindness or support.

If there was a way with the internet and running a forum, simply to mute the opinions of a great block of people, it would allow me to get on with work in a more positive frame of mind and cater for the people I do actually like and get on with, which is the mostly silent majority. I could be out shooting and reviewing new cameras, rather than bogged down writing this and defending myself all the time.

At the end of the day it's my site. I don't owe the uncaring masses or a PR person a damn thing.

[gethin]

40 minutes ago, Django said:

I must admit I was kind of shocked to read Andrew’s latest blog entry and it’s conclusion.. especially only days after decrying said press junkets and praising JB. But I understand this must have hit too close from home and to add insult to injury I’m sure BMD (a smaller word of mouth company) has sold a shit ton of cameras thanks to this site and could have made the effort to reach out. JB's reply visibly felt like a stab in the back. I think both parties are blowing this out of proportion.

I do find it disheartening to see such feud amongst a host and one of it’s most popular contributors and sincerely hope they can work things out.

In any case, I value this site and I’m sure right now is a tense time to manage and review gear ahead of what is announcing itself like an explosive photokina edition and hence would like to show my support to Mr.Reid, even if I don't always share his views. This is his planet.

The guy has done a pretty amazing job with this site imo and deserves to be cut a little slack, wether you agree or not with his latest article and/or handling of the situation.

We're all human beings and have our good/bad days. Let's not jump to any hurtful conslusions.

I do feel an overall tense vibe here and beyond lately. Surely the recent announcements by all the big players has had a dramatic & divisive effect on the photo/video community.

We should all relax a bit over the current state of gear announcements, our excitement/ disappointments, frustrations,  etc.. in the end we all share a common passion and this is all beneficial to us as consumers. So many options out there and at unprecedented affordable levels. What a time to be alive!  

I've not seen much of the handmaids tale, but there was one scene where the handmaids tear a convicted rapist to shreds, venting their pent up rage in the only way they're allowed.  I dont think the behavior on photo forums is isolated and I cant help wondering if this is a shift in the way people interact generally, and if part of the cause is the lack of perceived power; of frustration at being screwed from all sides.  The milk of human kindness seems in short supply generally, and not just in forums. (this isn't aimed at Andrew its just the dynamic that seems to be around).

I have frequently wanted to yell at various people and institutions to shove various things in various orifices.  And occasionally do, but you have to be certain you aint never gonna need to speak to the person or company again, lol. 

The weird thing about this to me is that the footage i've seen has not been that good.   It all seemed a bit thrown together,  not the pinnacle of some marketing strategy, but what do I know?  I'm just a jobbing video hack, but i think I would've done a better job with half a day with one of those cams.