Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[webrunner5]

2 hours ago, kye said:

Cameras are a funny thing - it's one of the only things I know of where having more money wouldn't help me that much.  If you want an ILC cinema camera with good 4K smaller than a C100 there are simply no options.  That is, unless you're a billionaire, in which case you can probably ask one of the manufacturers to design you one!

Edit: with great IS for handheld work.  Otherwise the Pocket 2 is fine

Does the EOSR have a s35 mode? If so put a Speedbooster on it and call it a day. Ehh no IBIS, your still screwed LoL. Just buy a Sony A7 mk III and be happy.

[Anaconda_]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

I think for the average person what you give up is not worth it.

I don’t think this camera is aimed at the average person. It’s not a camera for filming family holidays. Of course, you can use it for that, but the target demographic is as an A cam for young filmmakers and students or a B cam for higher profile projects.

In those scenarios what you give up may not be relevant. 

[webrunner5]

16 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

I don’t think this camera is aimed at the average person. It’s not a camera for filming family holidays. Of course, you can use it for that, but the target demographic is as an A cam for young filmmakers and students or a B cam for higher profile projects.

In those scenarios what you give up may not be relevant. 

This camera is really only going to work well on a tripod. And I seem to be one of the few on here that does use a tripod. So I just see it as a OK I bought one and I really don't like it camera, even for most of the people on here, let alone the rest of the people. I see it as a niche from hell, that most people will say down the road, Yeah I HAD one of them. It is just like the Original BMPCC, sure everyone on here Had one, but who still uses it or even still owns it! Sure it is a great camera, but it is a pain in the ass to use, and that equates to not something you just grab and go shoot with.

[Jonesy Jones]

2 hours ago, mercer said:

Yeah I remember that, and it would have been a smart move. BlackMagic operates in a market they have all to themselves. Of course, I don’t know if l’m sold on the P4K yet. I know everybody was impressed with the Wolfcrow comparison but all I learned from it was that Arri squashes all three cameras (no surprise) and that the P4K was only marginally better than the GH5. With the added features of the GH5, I don’t know if I would switch if I already owned one.

We'll see. I've got the P4K on preorder but have my finger on the cancel button. I'm waiting to see more footage. It's very possible that with the right lens, filters, and Sage's lut, GH5 is a no brainer. But from the footage I've seen so far the P4K has the edge in image quality for sure. But like you said, maybe not enough to choose it over IBIS, ETC. The GH5 is also getting an autofocus firmware update in October so that may be another edge. Battery life is another. However, .braw may do something special to the P4K. We'll see.

[webrunner5]

Yeah but down the road braw might be on damned near every camera since it is free, and a open Codec.

[matthere]

 The GH5 is a capable camera and certainly the camera to pick up for stuff on the go, but I think the P4K will have the edge in low light and with a steadycam or gimble giving it the potential for some movement in narrative work... I have one on preorder to fit alongside the GH5, the fact that lenses can be interchanged including speedboosters and full frame lenses makes the two cameras a nice pairing for me. For the price of an A7Riii you can have two cameras that will hopefully compliment each other quite well.. at least until these FF shenanigans settle down a bit ?

[Turboguard]

26 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

I don’t think this camera is aimed at the average person. It’s not a camera for filming family holidays. Of course, you can use it for that, but the target demographic is as an A cam for young filmmakers and students or a B cam for higher profile projects.

In those scenarios what you give up may not be relevant. 

I do use it for that haha

[Snowfun]

On 9/28/2018 at 1:49 PM, Turboguard said:

Which 8sin did you get? I’m looking at the half cafe with Scorpio handle.

I’m finding it difficult fixing a quick release plate to the bottom of my 8Sinn cage... if you have specific requirements make sure you check the lower plate. 

Apologies if that’s all second nature to you!

[Jonesy Jones]

54 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah but down the road braw might be on damned near every camera since it is free, and a open Codec.

The SDK for playing/editing .braw is free. Installing the codec on other cameras is not free, nor is it easy. They've patented it. But I assume that down the road, something "like" .braw will be available for most cameras. Hopefully.

[matthere]

14 minutes ago, Jn- said:

One other thing too is that the native MFT lenses are designed for fairly substantial software corrections in camera, especially at the widest end, this is an extra post job not required with say a GH5.  CA’s and vignetting are also corrected natively, but not with this camera.

I understand the discussion around software corrections in the Panny and Oly cameras, I wonder if Resolve could add corrective algorithms seeing as Blackmagic's cameras use m43 lenses?

I've not noticed any "substantial" problems myself but I tend to use manual wide lenses from SLRmagic and Laowa currently, the PanaLeica 10-25 f1.7 has my attention though ? 

[webrunner5]

3 minutes ago, Jonesy Jones said:

The SDK for playing/editing .braw is free. Installing the codec on other cameras is not free, nor is it easy. They've patented it. But I assume that down the road, something "like" .braw will be available for most cameras. Hopefully.

"Blackmagic told us that Blackmagic RAW will be coming to the BMPCC 4K at some stage, but it won’t be in there when the camera first ships.

It is also very likely that over the next 6 months or so that we will see Blackmagic RAW being implemented into other companies cameras. Blackmagic have said that they are very open to letting just about anyone use Blackmagic RAW as opposed to making it a closed system."

From this article at the bottom.

 

https://www.newsshooter.com/2018/09/15/blackmagic-raw-explained-ibc-2018/

[jonpais]

other cinema cameras perhaps; not mirrorless.

4 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

"Blackmagic told us that Blackmagic RAW will be coming to the BMPCC 4K at some stage, but it won’t be in there when the camera first ships.

It is also very likely that over the next 6 months or so that we will see Blackmagic RAW being implemented into other companies cameras. Blackmagic have said that they are very open to letting just about anyone use Blackmagic RAW as opposed to making it a closed system."

From this article at the bottom.

 

https://www.newsshooter.com/2018/09/15/blackmagic-raw-explained-ibc-2018/

 

[webrunner5]

38 minutes ago, jonpais said:

other cinema cameras perhaps; not mirrorless.

 

Where does it say that? Every camera does Raw., even a iPhone. Every Cine camera that I can think of is pretty much a Mirrorless camera in the modern era. PK4 is mirrorless.

[Jonesy Jones]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

"Blackmagic told us that Blackmagic RAW will be coming to the BMPCC 4K at some stage, but it won’t be in there when the camera first ships.

It is also very likely that over the next 6 months or so that we will see Blackmagic RAW being implemented into other companies cameras. Blackmagic have said that they are very open to letting just about anyone use Blackmagic RAW as opposed to making it a closed system."

From this article at the bottom.

 

https://www.newsshooter.com/2018/09/15/blackmagic-raw-explained-ibc-2018/

When I said other cameras, I was referring to other non BM cameras. Yes, it will be added to the P4K. Perhaps some other BM cameras, but there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY .braw will be added to other manufacturer cameras for free. The best analogy I can think of is this.

Lets say a nutritional company has created a health system that guarantees you more energy, strength, stamina, whatever, etc. It is based on some new biotech research. Based on many reviews it really does seem to work, but it has to be customized for each person. So you make an appt with one of their personal nutritionist. They take myriad tests and measurements on you personally. Based on your current condition, blood type, build, etc they prescribe a handful of dietary supplements along with some workouts and lifestyle changes. Several weeks later they test and measure you again. You've made progress. But they tweak the prescription a bit based on your reaction to it. Several more weeks pass and they test and measure you again. You're doing even better, but they tweak the prescription once again, though likely this will be your new and default program from there on out. And truly you feel amazing.

Your friend comes along and tries the same things you did, with no tests, and sees little to no effect on his personal health.

BM is able to get amazing things out of the UMP because of the their R&D AND the implementation to that specific sensor/camera combo. In other words, not only was there a great amount of effort spent developing the .braw codec, but it has to be taylor fitted to each sensor/camera combo which requires a great deal of resources. 

Not only does this give BM cameras a marketing edge and would be silly to just give it away for free, but it takes a great deal of time to implement. There is also the issue of camera processing power as well. Each of these reasons make it unlikely that we see .braw in a non BM camera and if it does happen, and I would love to see that, it won't be for free. 

59 minutes ago, Jn- said:

@matthere

“I've not noticed any "substantial" problems myself but I tend to use manual wide lenses from SLRmagic and Laowa currently, the PanaLeica 10-25 f1.7 has my attention though”

The manual lenses you mentioned may well be better corrected than the Pana/Oly lenses.

Sony also relies heavily on software auto correction.

To see the issue, have a look at the Opticallimits lens review site, formerly photozone.  Klaus usually displays the non-corrected distortions etc in his lens tests.

Of course the distortion can be corrected in the nle, its just something you won’t have to do with say a Pana/Oly/Sony camera.  Canon Nikon Sigma tend to be better corrected from the get go, so if using say a Canon with adapter, not really much of an issue.

The Pan "Lumix" lenses need software correction, but Oly's don't rely on that as much according to Brawley. I kind of assume the Leica lenses don't rely on it as much either since Leica has such a great lens making heritage.

[Snuff]

Japanese review with sample footage.

 

[jonpais]

20 minutes ago, Jonesy Jones said:

When I said other cameras, I was referring to other non BM cameras. Yes, it will be added to the P4K. Perhaps some other BM cameras, but there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY .braw will be added to other manufacturer cameras for free. The best analogy I can think of is this.

Lets say a nutritional company has created a health system that guarantees you more energy, strength, stamina, whatever, etc. It is based on some new biotech research. Based on many reviews it really does seem to work, but it has to be customized for each person. So you make an appt with one of their personal nutritionist. They take myriad tests and measurements on you personally. Based on your current condition, blood type, build, etc they prescribe a handful of dietary supplements along with some workouts and lifestyle changes. Several weeks later they test and measure you again. You've made progress. But they tweak the prescription a bit based on your reaction to it. Several more weeks pass and they test and measure you again. You're doing even better, but they tweak the prescription once again, though likely this will be your new and default program from there on out. And truly you feel amazing.

Your friend comes along and tries the same things you did, with no tests, and sees little to no effect on his personal health.

BM is able to get amazing things out of the UMP because of the their R&D AND the implementation to that specific sensor/camera combo. In other words, not only was there a great amount of effort spent developing the .braw codec, but it has to be taylor fitted to each sensor/camera combo which requires a great deal of resources. 

Not only does this give BM cameras a marketing edge and would be silly to just give it away for free, but it takes a great deal of time to implement. There is also the issue of camera processing power as well. Each of these reasons make it unlikely that we see .braw in a non BM camera and if it does happen, and I would love to see that, it won't be for free. 

The Pan "Lumix" lenses need software correction, but Oly's don't rely on that as much according to Brawley. I kind of assume the Leica lenses don't rely on it as much either since Leica has such a great lens making heritage.

Just looking at the Leica 12mm f/1.4 and 8-18mm f/2.8-4, they’ve both got huge amounts of distortion. 

[Jonesy Jones]

1 minute ago, jonpais said:

Just looking at the Leica 12mm f/1.4 and 8-18mm f/2.8-4, they’ve both got huge amounts of distortion. 

Balls.

[jonpais]

I repeat, B RAW will not be coming to a hybrid anywhere near Ohio in my lifetime. 

[webrunner5]

You guys are crazy as hell, but I have known that for awhile LoL. ?

[webrunner5]

7 minutes ago, Jn- said:

 

I have only one non MFT/FT lens, the Voigtlander 40mm f1.4 Nokton, but that becomes an 80mm.

 

I see a Speedbooster in your future LoL..Ahh hell, it's only money.