Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[Joek]

55 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I am just wondering how he can say it's the gold standard, in the same breath of "it's not a low light camera"

It's not full frame either.

"Fan a none issue!"

It is an issue. It has a great whacking hole in the top!!

I am interested to find out how they stop dust getting in there and onto the sensor, as the fan is primarily there to cool the sensor and image processor.

I would also be frightened of a slight bit of drizzle or sand. You guys plan to use it in a plastic bag?

...I'm guessing the sensor itself is sealed in the front with the mount. The heatsync for the sensor is what is exposed. If it was sealed correctly and used an all weather fan they could have potentially made it "wheather sealed," but I'm sure they're using the fan for more than just the sensor heatsync in this case. 

[Andrew Reid]

16 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

I am sure BM will sort out all the issues. They are kind of known for releasing a "mostly" finished product.

Image quality is subjective but in general I agree with him. Nothing else shoots 4k raw anywhere near this price, especially considering it does it up to 60p and of course 1080 120p raw(though it is 4x crop). You might not like the M43 look but there is no arguing the 14 bit raw 4k.

I am not getting it though, especially after hearing about the 4x crop in 1080p. Fuji XT3 for me(soon maybe, hopefully).

When BM first got into camera market they had excuses for 'bad behaviour' such as unfinished cameras being released after long delays with the contents of a mouse's dinner behind the mount cap. I am not sure I want to go through it again. Such obvious BS.

Why sacrifice EVERYTHING nice about something like a GH5 or X-T3, for JUST RAW? What is it doing for you that 10bit LOG doesn't? Let's get a reality check before people burn their fingers.

I need to talk to BM and as respectfully as I can tell them to really think about the way they are handling this camera release...from design, to manufacturing, to shipping, to even marketing, it's all flawed and off-putting.

Still a very interesting option but c'mon.

9 minutes ago, Joek said:

...I'm guessing the sensor itself is sealed in the front with the mount. The heatsync for the sensor is what is exposed. If it was sealed correctly and used an all weather fan they could have potentially made it "wheather sealed," but I'm sure they're using the fan for more than just the sensor heatsync in this case. 

Sounds like a bit of an excuse for them that does!

A heat sink cannot be separate to the stuff it is cooling, so if water or whatever (spiders!?) is going in that massive hole on both top AND bottom it is going to meet up with vital stuff.

[majoraxis]

2 hours ago, majoraxis said:

I spoke with a customer service person from BH Photo and she said that they expect to ship out some of the Pocket 4k orders tomorrow.

I called BH Photo again and the customer service person said there was some type of delay and they are now anticipating receiving their shipment on the 10th to ship out by 12th...

[thebrothersthre3]

10 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

When BM first got into camera market they had excuses for 'bad behaviour' such as unfinished cameras being released after long delays with the contents of a mouse's dinner behind the mount cap. I am not sure I want to go through it again. Such obvious BS.

Why sacrifice EVERYTHING nice about something like a GH5 or X-T3, for JUST RAW? What is it doing for you that 10bit LOG doesn't? Let's get a reality check before people burn their fingers.

I need to talk to BM and as respectfully as I can tell them to really think about the way they are handling this camera release...from design, to manufacturing, to shipping, to even marketing, it's all flawed and off-putting.

 

I agree with you on that. I don't see how its advantageous for them to release something before its ready.

As to 14 bit raw vs 10 bit 422 or 420, I don't think everyone needs it. But some people do or at least want it. To me its just an amazing feature. Expensive cameras like RED do 14 bit not 1000 dollar pocket cameras.

[Turboguard]

7 minutes ago, majoraxis said:

I called BH Photo again and the customer service person said there was some type of delay and they are now anticipating receiving their shipment on the 10th to ship out by 12th...

Feels like every time someone calls, there’s a new reason. Guess we all just need to sit tight.

[Andrew Reid]

If you get yours this month, have an X-T3 on standby if you plan to shoot paid work on it.

[docmoore]

25 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Why sacrifice EVERYTHING nice about something like a GH5 or X-T3, for JUST RAW? What is it doing for you that 10bit LOG doesn't? Let's get a reality check before people burn their fingers.

Raw is phenomenal ... but not worth dealing with beta firmware and buggy implementation.

Cancelling my preorder ... going to add the GH5s to my Leica SL.

 

[A_Urquhart]

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I am just wondering how he can say it's the gold standard, in the same breath of "it's not a low light camera"

It can easily be the 'gold standard at the price point. The images up to ISO4000 are fantastic and 6400 is usable.. I never need to go above ISO4000 for my paid work. For lazy hobbyists that just want to shoot in the dark, get a Sony A7III and shoot 8bit. It's all you need.

Lowlight performance of the Red Epic wan't as good as the A7S but I'd rate the picture of the Epic far above the A7S all day long.

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

You can see THROUGH the camera from top to bottom - it has a HOLE in it.

I've shot with the Red Epic, The Ursa Mini Pro among other cameras that have massive holes in the top. The Epic even has a huge noisy fan in the front that also use to suck all sorts of crap into it, didn't stop me using it in all sorts of conditions.

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

No low battery warning or graceful shutdown procedure, just turns off and corrupts the ProRes file.

Using the supplied BMD LP-E6, the battery icon flashes red and displays the voltage so you know it's time to change batteries. Using Wasabi, this doesn't happen and the meter is unreliable. I will try some genuine Canon batteries and report back but the BMD LP-E6 works fine after a few charges and discharges.

 

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Squeals a high-pitched note randomly. Sometimes just hangs for no reason.

Mine hasn't done this at all. The OS is extremely robust...My Fuji X-T2 on the other hand hangs every now and again forcing you to pull the battery and I've heard the same about the X-T3.

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Why sacrifice EVERYTHING nice about something like a GH5 or X-T3, for JUST RAW? What is it doing for you that 10bit LOG doesn't? Let's get a reality check before people burn their fingers.

It's not just RAW, the ProRes files also look fantastic on the Pocket4K. Absolutely no jaggies on fine hair but still plenty of detail. Very smooth image. As a Fuji shooter, I also love good colour science and the Pocket4K doesn't disappoint.

 

 

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

If you get yours this month, have an X-T3 on standby if you plan to shoot paid work on it.

The X-T3 also has poor battery life and crashes.

[Anaconda_]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

You can see THROUGH the camera from top to bottom - it has a HOLE in it.

Same as the Ursa models. A guy filmed rhinos in the desert and had helicopters blowing dust and sand all around him. Camera was fine.

[A_Urquhart]

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

It's not full frame either.

Ive never heard a good DP complain that the Red Epic, Red Helium, Arri Alexa, Sony F55 are not full frame. I've put the Metabones XL speedbooster on my pocket4K  and super happy with the look.

Andrew, it seems that the whole BMD Manchester incident still has a bitter taste in your mouth. You are looking for any excuse to hate this camera in the same way that most heavy forum users look for excuses to hate on any camera and use a cameras lack of features as excuses as to why they are on forums rather than out shooting nice images. Sorry, I know that view is going to make me unpopular on a forum but I think it's kinda on the mark. 

Is the Pocket4K for everyone? No. The camera isn't a white unicorn....it isn't the perfect camera for everyone. No camera is.

If you just want to shoot bare bones, in the hand video with no light, get an A7III. If you want to VLOG, get a camera with a flippy screen (although interestingly, I know a few vloggers that use Red Helium as a vlogging camera!). It really depends on what your priorities are. 

The Pocket4k is a solid little camera. Sure I wish the battery lasted longer than an hour and I wish the screen was easier to see in bright sun but having used Sony A7 series, Panasonic GH series and the Fuji X-T2 all as B cams, would I chose to shoot with one of those over the Pocket4K? No chance! I still need to add external monitors to those small hybrid cameras anyway and their battery life is barely any better ( apart from GH series) ........but the Pocket4k image creams them! 

[Turboguard]

B&H just charged my card!!!!

[MurtlandPhoto]

4 minutes ago, Turboguard said:

B&H just charged my card!!!!

Holy crap they just charged mine as well! Thank you for the heads up.  

[JordanWright]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

If you get yours this month, have an X-T3 on standby if you plan to shoot paid work on it.

Yeah I'm keeping my Gh5 alongside it for a while as a backup cam until im confident it won't fail. Saying that, I would do that with any new camera for paid work

[Turboguard]

8 minutes ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

Holy crap they just charged mine as well! Thank you for the heads up.  

Have mine on pick up at superstore, still waiting for confirmation but they close in 10min so will def not happen today! God, I kinda wanna go to bed haha

[MurtlandPhoto]

6 minutes ago, Turboguard said:

Have mine on pick up at superstore, still waiting for confirmation but they close in 10min so will def not happen today! God, I kinda wanna go to bed haha

Haha it's like Christmas Eve my dude. I'll have to wait for shipping, but excited nonetheless. 

[A_Urquhart]

For anyone that's interested, I just plugged my Tentacle Sync E into the mic/TC input of the Pocket4K using a regular male to male stereo minijack cable and the Pocket4K took the timecode no worries. The Pocket4k auto detects the external TC and you get a little EXT TC icon showing you that its synced externally. Nice!

Another good reason to use it as a B Cam over a mirrorless. Despite Plural Eyes (and similar solutions), editors still sigh when they are on set and find out that the B Camera doesn't have TC.

[thebrothersthre3]

Yeah there are already reported lock up issues on the XT3, though it seems a simple battery in and out does the trick. That could be annoying if its rigged up on a gimbal or something though. 

This cameras should match the GH5S in low light, with NR. I don't think you'll see any RAW camera that doesn't need NR at high ISO's. Not saying a full frame wouldn't do better but even slog on the A7SII can be noisy. 

 

[mercer]

Are there any 1080p ProRes tests floating around? I’m searching for a reason to buy the P4K over another Pocket or even a GH5 in a few months, but I haven’t really seen anything that makes it a must have. I’m really hoping the 1080p ProRes will sell me on it. 

[Turboguard]

8 minutes ago, mercer said:

Are there any 1080p ProRes tests floating around? I’m searching for a reason to buy the P4K over another Pocket or even a GH5 in a few months, but I haven’t really seen anything that makes it a must have. I’m really hoping the 1080p ProRes will sell me on it. 

If I get mine tomorrow I can do every single test anyone needs on here. I need to learn the camera so what better way than to take requests!

 

Haven’t used the UI since I shot with an UM4K like 2 years ago. So lots of shooting the coming days if I get it!

[kye]

36 minutes ago, Turboguard said:

If I get mine tomorrow I can do every single test anyone needs on here. I need to learn the camera so what better way than to take requests!

Could you possibly test the quality, directionality and if there's camera handling noise from the internal mics please?  I've got a suspicion they've done something very clever with them..