Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[Turboguard]

7 minutes ago, kye said:

Could you possibly test the quality, directionality and if there's camera handling noise from the internal mics please?  I've got a suspicion they've done something very clever with them..

Not a trained audio guy really. Know the basics, but can set audio levels and talk in some environments that I would assume would be what you’d try to do with it without external mics.

[kye]

Just now, Turboguard said:

Not a trained audio guy really. Know the basics, but can set audio levels and talk in some environments that I would assume would be what you’d try to do with it without external mics.

That would be awesome.  I generally just hold the camera a set distance from my head and then just say "back of the camera" "90 degrees" and "facing straight on" as I turn the camera around and that's enough to get an idea of what kind of rejection quality and handling noise there is.

I'm at the complete opposite end of the spectrum on this camera - if I get one it would be as minimal a setup as possible.  Potentially just the camera and one lens.

Thanks!!

[Savannah Miller]

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

A heat sink cannot be separate to the stuff it is cooling, so if water or whatever (spiders!?) is going in that massive hole on both top AND bottom it is going to meet up with vital stuff.

I don't think that's true.   A lot of blackmagic cameras have exposed holes, but all of the stuff that is vital to the camera (FGPA, Sensor, etc.) are sealed from dust/weather, etc.

 

I do think that the Pocket 4K is a better option for professional cinema use, but for everyday users I don't think Blackmagic cameras are ideal.  Autofocus, IBIS, rotating screen, etc. are huge features that will greatly benefit the average user more than raw will.

 

If another brand of mirrorless camera would incorporate the BRAW codec then there would be very little reason to buy a Blackmagic cam anymore.

[Joek]

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

When BM first got into camera market they had excuses for 'bad behaviour' such as unfinished cameras being released after long delays with the contents of a mouse's dinner behind the mount cap. I am not sure I want to go through it again. Such obvious BS.

Why sacrifice EVERYTHING nice about something like a GH5 or X-T3, for JUST RAW? What is it doing for you that 10bit LOG doesn't? Let's get a reality check before people burn their fingers.

I need to talk to BM and as respectfully as I can tell them to really think about the way they are handling this camera release...from design, to manufacturing, to shipping, to even marketing, it's all flawed and off-putting.

Still a very interesting option but c'mon.

Sounds like a bit of an excuse for them that does!

A heat sink cannot be separate to the stuff it is cooling, so if water or whatever (spiders!?) is going in that massive hole on both top AND bottom it is going to meet up with vital stuff.

Yes it can. Look at any modern computer, usually the proccessor's heat sync is connected by small copper pipes filled with gas to the heat block and on modern computers this can be up to a foot or more away (although usually it's less than a few inches). This property is what allows laptops to be so thin. They could easily use an external heat sync and put a water tight seal around the pipes going to it. 

[Turboguard]

13 minutes ago, Joek said:

Yes it can. Look at any modern computer, usually the proccessor's heat sync is connected by small copper pipes filled with gas to the heat block and on modern computers this can be up to a foot or more away (although usually it's less than a few inches). This property is what allows laptops to be so thin. They could easily use an external heat sync and put a water tight seal around the pipes going to it. 

I just think we’re seeing the residue of the earlier outbreak. I love this site, would never wanna get on the bad side of Andrew but I feel like down the pipeline, he’ll probably have one and really enjoy it. 

[A_Urquhart]

 

3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I need to talk to BM and as respectfully as I can tell them to really think about the way they are handling this camera release...from design, to manufacturing, to shipping, to even marketing, it's all flawed and off-putting.

For me, the design of the Pocket4K is not ideal, but then neither is any camera under $2000. I'd love the design to be more like the FS5 or Canon XC15. I'd be happy to pay $1000 or so more for a  Pocket4K Pro or Ursa Micro that could take a larger Sony BPU battery and had a tiltable screen.

In terms of manufacturing, I don't see a problem and they shipped the camera on time. Marketing wise, we got to see a lot of footage from the camera before release and pre production versions travelled the world with viewing sessions available to the public at some decent retailers in major cities where we are able to hold and use the camera (without recording) months before it shipped allowing us to make a more informed decision on wether we wanted to pre order it. Show me another Camera manufacturer that has done the same? 

Shipping wise, again, they shipped on time and yes, unless you pre ordered it's hard to get your hands on one for now BUT even the Sony A7III has been extremely hard to get a hold of (here in australia anyway) months after release so I really don't know what you are referring to when you say that BMD shipping and marketing have been flawed. Although I do know exactly why YOU are saying this and it's really unfortunate that you still let one event jade your vision so much.

While people may criticise  Caleb Pike or Peter McKinnon for letting an invitation to a trade event jade their vision on the Canon R, you have been jaded in exactly the same way by not being invited to one. You knew well before the cameras release that it had vents top and bottom or that it wasn't full frame or than it didn't have IBIS but before 'Manchester Gate' you were still quite positive toward the camera. Since then, you have been extremely negative about it. It's a shame all round that camera bloggers are so easily persuaded by manufacturers isn't it Andrew? 

[mercer]

The problem is that this camera was a unicorn for months and months and then finally some footage was released and it looked like a dirty horse with a paper horn stapled to its head. 

I don’t know if I can honestly say that I have seen one video that doesn’t look like it could have been shot with a GH5 and probably much easier.

The cultist attitude about this camera is expected on an insertnameuser site but this forum has never been that kind of place. If a camera has an issue, people speak up about it. The OG Pocket had plenty of issues but the IQ made up for it as those issues were addressed. This camera just seems wrong from the outset. What a shame. I was hoping for a Pocket 2. Maybe IF they add BRaw, it will acquire something special but as of now, if I was in the market, and had to choose... I think I’d buy a GH5.

[A_Urquhart]

20 minutes ago, Stryfe said:

The fact that he dedicated an entire blog post praising Magic Lantern's raw efforts on the 5DIV & suggested someone get them the EOS-R just a few weeks ago and now is just dismissive means it's just targeted at BMD.   

Yep, so many contradictions I'm left with absolutely no faith in any of his views anymore. What's the point of ML getting a camera if RAW has no purpose?

[mercer]

EDIT: To clarify my previous statement... none of the footage I have seen from the P4K looks bad, in fact it all looks pretty good, but it also looks very generic and lacks a lot of the cinematic qualities of its predecessor.

[A_Urquhart]

7 minutes ago, mercer said:

The problem is that this camera was a unicorn for months and months and then finally some footage was released and it looked like a dirty horse with a paper horn stapled to its head.

Not sure I'd say that. Ive seen the images my camera produces first hand and really liking them. It definitely has a great 'cinematic' quality that I haven't seen with the GH5 or A7III that I can only describe as smooth and creamy. No sharpened jaggies, just really nice filmic images.   The footage has a lot more latitude in post than the GH5 too and that's why you buy a camera that shoots great codecs.

[mercer]

1 minute ago, A_Urquhart said:

Not sure I'd say that. Ive seen the images my camera produces first hand and really liking them. It definitely has a great quality that I haven't seen with the GH5 or A7III.  The footage has a lot more latitude in post than the GH5 too and that's why you buy a camera that shoots great codecs.

Idk, I felt there were some crickets when the footage was released. I agree with you about codecs and I’m sure some great footage will appear from this camera but as of now, it’s just not what I expected... don’t get me wrong it’s better than I could do with it.

Maybe I expected more from it than I should have but man I was floored when I read the ProRes specs... and I’m easy... the 1080p specs alone got me going. 

I look forward to the BRaw update. I’m a little skeptical it will happen or should I say, I think you early adopters might be really happy you bought the camera when you did because I could see a price increase if it gets updated. 

[MurtlandPhoto]

7 minutes ago, mercer said:

I look forward to the BRaw update. I’m a little skeptical it will happen or should I say, I think you early adopters might be really happy you bought the camera when you did because I could see a price increase if it gets updated. 

I doubt they would do that. It’s a free update to the Ursa Mini and BM have never charged for updates. 

[A_Urquhart]

 

12 minutes ago, mercer said:

I look forward to the BRaw update. I’m a little skeptical it will happen or should I say, I think you early adopters might be really happy you bought the camera when you did because I could see a price increase if it gets updated. 

The Pocket4K is definitely getting it according to BMD and they said they had BRAW in mind when designing the Pocket4K so internally, everything should be in place. While I've held the opinion that most people don't need RAW (10bit is fine for most),  once it is implemented, there will be little reason not to shoot RAW as long as it works as advertised with low data rates and flexibility in post.

Considering the crazy the low price of the Pocket4K, and the fact that I'm not relying on it as my main camera for work, I was happy to be an early adopter. The fact that I was also wanting to switch to Resolve Studio for the little editing and grading I do meant that it was a bit of a no brainer. 

 

[mercer]

Well didn’t BM already raise the advertised price on their site? As far as I heard, Petty only said that they’re working on it, I didn’t hear that they said they had it in mind all along. I wonder why they didn’t release with it.

53 minutes ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

I doubt they would do that. It’s a free update to the Ursa Mini and BM have never charged for updates. 

I don’t think they’ll charge the early adopters, but it doesn’t mean the price of the camera won’t rise in the future. I think it would be a first, but nobody expected the fire sale of the original Pocket and then the price went right back up to $995 and hasn’t budged since. Which is actually pretty crazy. BM could still make a small fortune on the OG Pocket if they lowered the price to $599 or even $699.

[Turboguard]

3 minutes ago, mercer said:

Well didn’t BM already raise the advertised price on their site? As far as I heard, Petty only said that they’re working on it, I didn’t hear that they said they had it in mind all along. I wonder why they didn’t release with it.

True, but maybe the codec itself is in "beta" and they want to stabilize it first before adding it to BMCCP4K. Who knows what the deal is...

[DBounce]

5 hours ago, A_Urquhart said:

It can easily be the 'gold standard at the price point. The images up to ISO4000 are fantastic and 6400 is usable.. I never need to go above ISO4000 for my paid work. For lazy hobbyists that just want to shoot in the dark, get a Sony A7III and shoot 8bit. It's all you need.

Lowlight performance of the Red Epic wan't as good as the A7S but I'd rate the picture of the Epic far above the A7S all day long.

I've shot with the Red Epic, The Ursa Mini Pro among other cameras that have massive holes in the top. The Epic even has a huge noisy fan in the front that also use to suck all sorts of crap into it, didn't stop me using it in all sorts of conditions.

Using the supplied BMD LP-E6, the battery icon flashes red and displays the voltage so you know it's time to change batteries. Using Wasabi, this doesn't happen and the meter is unreliable. I will try some genuine Canon batteries and report back but the BMD LP-E6 works fine after a few charges and discharges.

 

Mine hasn't done this at all. The OS is extremely robust...My Fuji X-T2 on the other hand hangs every now and again forcing you to pull the battery and I've heard the same about the X-T3.

It's not just RAW, the ProRes files also look fantastic on the Pocket4K. Absolutely no jaggies on fine hair but still plenty of detail. Very smooth image. As a Fuji shooter, I also love good colour science and the Pocket4K doesn't disappoint.

 

 

The X-T3 also has poor battery life and crashes.

Funny, mine has yet to crash. But then again I did the firmware update, so there’s that. As for battery life. It’s not wonderful. Small batteries = mediocre performance. However with the battery grip it will go for a good while.

Too bad there is no battery grip for the pocket?

[Snuff]

Watch this video and stop saying that Pocket4K is not сinematic. In the hands of the master with taste and good lenses, even the GH5 is beautiful. Otherwise, it is too early for you to have such a camera, learn to shoot first

Shot on GH5 using Lomo anamorphic and spherical lenses (50mm roundfront and +1 +2 diopters in a few shots). Graded with FilmConvert using KD 5207 Vis3.

 

 

[capitanazo]

57 minutes ago, Snuff said:

Watch this video and stop saying that Pocket4K is not сinematic. In the hands of the master with taste and good lenses, even the GH5 is beautiful. Otherwise, it is too early for you to have such a camera, learn to shoot first

Shot on GH5 using Lomo anamorphic and spherical lenses (50mm roundfront and +1 +2 diopters in a few shots). Graded with FilmConvert using KD 5207 Vis3.

 

 

daaamn thats its just beautiful
that is the kind of cinematography that inspire to me and im very happy that it could can be done with 1300-2000$ cameras.
We are living in a good time for cinematography, specially for whos work with a low budget.

[Kisaha]

@A_Urquhart check the Focus. Is absolutely the smallest, lightest and brightest cheap monitor there is (I wish it was even smaller, by the way).

The touch screen interface is just brilliant.

There is an argument being maybe for the Atomos as well, but if you do not need the recorder (like I didn't), then Focus is the best, if you need a small recorder, then the Atomos V is the first to consider.

[BenEricson]

1 hour ago, Snuff said:

Watch this video and stop saying that Pocket4K is not сinematic. In the hands of the master with taste and good lenses, even the GH5 is beautiful. Otherwise, it is too early for you to have such a camera, learn to shoot first

Shot on GH5 using Lomo anamorphic and spherical lenses (50mm roundfront and +1 +2 diopters in a few shots). Graded with FilmConvert using KD 5207 Vis3.

 

 

Really nice looking piece. It should be noted that it really helps that every shot in this piece is either a sunset, silhouette, or some sort of low split light setting.

The really great thing about the OG pocket camera is that you can get that cinematic look in the middle of the day, overcast, or even indoors. Watch this, shot with the pocket and 16mm film and you’ll see what I mean. Very vivid looking images. 

It will be interesting to see what people will create with th new pocket. Hope I can be proved wrong.