Deadcode Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 23 minutes ago, jonpais said: i have no idea what any of that means, but I'm eager to see what happens. It's simpe. He will not see any difference in regular cases. The statement of 700Mbps could be almost twice as good as 400Mbps is only true on paper. I just want him to prove it for himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 I'm guessing ProRes XQ will annihilate ProRes LT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kisaha Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 4 hours ago, BenEricson said: Same sensor. Similar specs. The sensor is same with the GH5s, not the GH5. The specs (or the lack of them, e.g. IBIS, high resolution photos e.t.c) are similar with the GH5S. As I see it, the P4K is 3/4 of a monitor, a full time video recorder, and 3/4 of a video camera with a full editing solution for free. The deal is good, good enough to be an indie hit. It won't sell as much as an XT-3 or C200, but it could easily be the most successful BM camera ever, which is something. Do we know for sure that BRAW is going to be added in the future, or is it pure speculation as of now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Kisaha said: Do we know for sure that BRAW is going to be added in the future, or is it pure speculation as of now? It is a certainty. I think. I'd love to see a teardown of the Pocket 4K btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadcode Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 10 minutes ago, jonpais said: I'm guessing ProRes XQ will annihilate ProRes LT. We will see it in @mercer 's example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekeela Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 6 hours ago, mercer said: Lol... probably not. If you stick up for the GH5, the BM fanboys attack you, if you stick up for the P4K, the GH5 fans go nuts... I may as well talk to myself in the ML Raw forum... I’ll definitely like what I have to say... ? In the end, these are just cameras and it’s not worth getting angry over. In this thread: a handful of people repeatedly crying about being oppressed for not liking a camera. Not in this thread: BM fanboys giving critics a hard time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kisaha Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 59 minutes ago, tekeela said: In this thread: a handful of people repeatedly crying about being oppressed for not liking a camera. Not in this thread: BM fanboys giving critics a hard time. I can not identify, not even one BM fanboy here! I can see a bunch attacking the P4K for something that it isn't (a hybrid camera), some that pre-ordered and finding it an excellent and cheap solution for their needs, and some (the majority I assume, including me) that are really intrigued by this release from -used to be- a small player that can easily fit many people's workflow, but we are waiting for real world reviews and to check quality and software issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirozina Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 7 hours ago, mercer said: As I previously noted, I was being hyperbolic with murder and obliterate but that doesn’t negate the fact that ProRes XQ at +700 mbps should look better than 400 mbps of the GH5. And in some ways it does but I don’t know if it looks almost twice as good. Why should it look better? I've seem quite a few tests (inc one I did myself) between the internal codec and that recorded via HDMI out on the GH5 and they don't reveal any differences in image quality. What are you expecting to see (or have seen) exactly? The main advantage of a less compressed codec is that it's easier to edit as it doesn't require such large CPU/GPU work to uncompress during playback in an NLE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yannick Willox Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 I don't see where fanboyism comes in. I was looking at a GH5s, but out of reach financially. Can anyone tell me what a GH5s does, that the P4K cannot do at least as good, except for battery life. I know the battery life on a GH5s is good enough to show up at a concert and tape the entire 2h without needing a power socket, which is a big plus. On the other hand, for the price of one GH5s you buy 2 P4K, both come included with a power socket (optional on the GH5s), and for the same money I have two cameras. If I want to save on storage, I could shoot the P4K at 1080P & prores LT. Now that would be an interesting comparison, the full HD of the GH5s versus P4K ? Amazing nobody looked at that angle yet. I thought one of the major gripes with current hybrid cams is that they are all optimized for 4K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirozina Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 19 minutes ago, Kisaha said: I can not identify, not even one BM fanboy here! I can see a bunch attacking the P4K for something that it isn't (a hybrid camera), some that pre-ordered and finding it an excellent and cheap solution for their needs, and some (the majority I assume, including me) that are really intrigued by this release from -used to be- a small player that can easily fit many people's workflow, but we are waiting for real world reviews and to check quality and software issues. Also a lot of people have the notion that the image quality will be substantially better than the GH5 and GH5s based on the specs and spurious claims about 'color science' or other 'mojo' BM will bring to the table. The GH5 and GH5s produce a very good image both in terms of what it looks like and how the codec behaves in grading so people really need to 'manage their expectations' about the extent of the improvements the P4K will bring about in terms of final image quality. In particular with the GH5s which by all circumstantial evidence shares the same sensor which I haven't see evidence of being intentionally crippled by Panasonic so the improvements are likely to be minor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonim Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 For me as previous owner of many BM cameras, story in practice always begin with third party solutions for better usability - as it seems we still have to wait for the most clever cage solution with additional compartment for fixing powering/stabilization/monitoring/filtering/file saving demands. And than to see how much all of that will cost (for indisputably untouchable raw possibility for sоme area of usage) - or, to stay in recent forum's mood/vocabulary: what will be degree of massacre that Pocket will make to our pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirozina Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Yannick Willox said: Can anyone tell me what a GH5s does, that the P4K cannot do at least as good, except for battery life. It has an EVF which depending on your shooting style could be important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yannick Willox Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Shirozina said: It has an EVF which depending on your shooting style could be important. Indeed. Personally I mostly put the camera on a tripod, and I don't understand how you can use a viewfinder, with the camera on a (cheapish) tripod. Probably on a 2000 dollar model you can... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Weathersealed magnesium alloy body, 240fps, waveform monitor, vectorscope, double battery life, usable smartphone remote app, flippy screen, proven reliability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonim Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 18 minutes ago, Yannick Willox said: I don't see where fanboyism comes in. I was looking at a GH5s, but out of reach financially. Can anyone tell me what a GH5s does, that the P4K cannot do at least as good, except for battery life. I know the battery life on a GH5s is good enough to show up at a concert and tape the entire 2h without needing a power socket, which is a big plus. On the other hand, for the price of one GH5s you buy 2 P4K, both come included with a power socket (optional on the GH5s), and for the same money I have two cameras. If I want to save on storage, I could shoot the P4K at 1080P & prores LT. Now that would be an interesting comparison, the full HD of the GH5s versus P4K ? Amazing nobody looked at that angle yet. I thought one of the major gripes with current hybrid cams is that they are all optimized for 4K. I don't have Pocket4k, but with previous experience, first to come in my mind for comparing with Panasonic is - question of reliability of parts, connectors, even electronics. Maybe there's no reason to worry, I don't know. Also GH5s is in some sort of discount at many place (in Europe it seems that difference is about 550-600e now even in clean distributors, but Pocket is not yet available) - at the moment that you can really get Pocket in hands, price will be even closer. But - as already being mentioned before - GH5s and Pocket, although similar actually are also very different, highly depending on other components and preferences of your usage chain as whole (starting or not from scratch, other camera in disposal, raw usage, and mostly your budget - it could be easy turning out that Pocket finally become more expensive than GH5s!). webrunner5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kisaha Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 15 minutes ago, Shirozina said: Also a lot of people have the notion that the image quality will be substantially better than the GH5 and GH5s based on the specs and spurious claims about 'color science' or other 'mojo' BM will bring to the table. The GH5 and GH5s produce a very good image both in terms of what it looks like and how the codec behaves in grading so people really need to 'manage their expectations' about the extent of the improvements the P4K will bring about in terms of final image quality. In particular with the GH5s which by all circumstantial evidence shares the same sensor which I haven't see evidence of being intentionally crippled by Panasonic so the improvements are likely to be minor. I agree, but I haven't seen those statements either. I have worked extensively with the GH5 and I am 100% sure that P4K will have much better image, like the GH5S has already. Having the same sensor as the GH5S, a bigger monitor and a much better internal video recorder, with half the price (in my country) making it a very interesting option, don't you think? tekeela 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBounce Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 56 minutes ago, Yannick Willox said: Can anyone tell me what a GH5s does, that the P4K cannot do at least as good, except for battery life. Sure, for one thing the build quality is much better... magnesium alloy vs plastic. Weather sealed body. Dual SD slots that can act redundantly. OIS supported correctly. Works 100% with many gimbals with full control of focus, rec/start stop etc... Full remote app support. 3 year warranty. Multiple still shooting modes. Support for battery grip. Flip out screen. Flash support. Wireless and NFC support. 10.2 MP stills with usable AF in stills mode. 12 fps burst rate. Not to mention a ton of monitoring tools. And much much more... Now, other than codecs what does the P4K bring to the party that the GH5s doesn't and how reliable will it be with its plastic build? And don't get me started on the ridiculous crop in high frame rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirozina Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 11 minutes ago, DBounce said: Sure, for one thing the build quality is much better... magnesium alloy vs plastic. Weather sealed body. Dual SD slots that can act redundantly. OIS supported correctly. Works 100% with many gimbals with full control of focus, rec/start stop etc... Full remote app support. 3 year warranty. Multiple still shooting modes. Support for battery grip. Flip out screen. Flash support. Wireless and NFC support. 10.2 MP stills with usable AF in stills mode. 12 fps burst rate. Not to mention a ton of monitoring tools. And much much more... Now, other than codecs what does the P4K bring to the party that the GH5s doesn't and how reliable will it be with its plastic build? And don't get me started on the ridiculous crop in high frame rates. From an engineering standpoint plastic can have advantages over a metal. At current UK prices the GH5s is £1000 more than the P4k. The GH5s doesn't have RAW and doesn't come with a free version of Resolve Studio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, Shirozina said: From an engineering standpoint plastic can have advantages over a metal. Sure it can. But the GH5s is weather-sealed - dust, splash and freeze resistant; the Pocket 4K isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirozina Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 47 minutes ago, Kisaha said: I agree, but I haven't seen those statements either. I have worked extensively with the GH5 and I am 100% sure that P4K will have much better image, like the GH5S has already. Having the same sensor as the GH5S, a bigger monitor and a much better internal video recorder, with half the price (in my country) making it a very interesting option, don't you think? Which is why I'm buying one to complement but not replace my GH5 I will make a judgement call on the image quality when I do my own tests but I am managing my expectations based upon that fact that using the GH5 with an HLG capture and Resolve Color managed workflow I'm not complaining about it's image quality at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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