Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[Anaconda_]

As with all things, that's so dependent on what and how you shoot. I don't think it's about rain as yes, most people would get a proper cover, but what if you're filming sports, be it skiing, motocross or even nature films in the jungle or the desert. I wouldn't want a full cover, but weather sealing will definitely help against the sand and snow, dust, dirt and moisture.

Obviously you don't change lenses in those conditions, but if you are filming in those conditions you likely have plenty of time to plan what and how you're going to film it. For example, if you want to film a lion in the Savannah, I would strongly advise against a wide angle lens. If you're shooting something in the jungle though, wide angle might be the way to go.

[DBounce]

2 hours ago, A_Urquhart said:

Ah, shame on me for having a few drinks and getting sucked back into this constant debate about what is better!

Firstly, lets just get this out of the way. No camera is better! Is Panasonic still going to sell plenty of GH5's? YES! Is BMD still going to sell plenty of Pocket4K's? YES. 

Hasn't everyone learnt yet that no single camera is a 'GH5 Killer' or '>insert other camera model here< killer? Erh...  GH6?

Now that that's out of the way other than codec the Pocket4k has the following that the GH5s doesn't:

- 5" 1080p screen - if only it could flip... or tilt... Really, no tilt? Guess you'll all be shooting at eye level.. or adding an external monitor.

-  LUT support for viewing or also can be baked into recording - GH5/S can both show custom luts or use baked in Luts (picture profiles).

- Timecode input - GH5S has this option. 

- XLR input with phantom power capability - this is optional on the GH cameras.

- USB-C recording - never wished for this option on a GH5/S.

- CFast recording - Why would I want that on a GH camera?

- Editable metadata for every shot/ file including lenses used, focal length etc etc in each file as it is on the GH5. - It's all recorded and editable in post. 

- Internal RAW - so a codec?

- Soon to get, Internal Blackmagic RAW for 12 bit RAW to SD Cards. BMD have confirmed it will be getting BRAW. - one word "vapooware".

- Proper False Colour (not a silly LUT hack)

- Arguably, but seemingly better colour science.

- A far superior and easier to use menu system. This is a really underrated feature. Shooting with and operating the Pocket is just so much faster than any mirrorless camera. ?

- Build quality is arguable too. The Pocket4k uses a polycarbonate / carbon fibre mix. My $6000 mountain bike that gets a heap of abuse has a frame that is also made of plastic/ carbon fibre! It's extremely tough stuff and lightweight. To the uninitiated, the lightness can be confused with 'cheap feeing'. - These are cameras not mountain bikes... why is BMDs UMP not made of the "superior" plastic? All high end cameras are metal. Some cover the metal in a plastic skin... but they are all metal. Watch out... you might unwittingly be one of the ""uninitiated" you speak of. 

- A far superior workflow from capture to edit. - IDK, the ALL-i footage is pretty easy to work with in FCPX.

- Should I list all the features of DaVinci Resolve Studio here? Should I list all the features of FCPX, Adobe PP and AE? How about you just list the bug where it changed aspect ratio after making edits in Fusion?

I could go on and on. The Pocket4k is in it's infancy as a product. There is no reason why a battery grip couldn't be made for it. - your making stuff up now.

Warranty wise, I had issues back in the day with a GH3 and Panasonic were a PITA to deal with for warranty. Had an issue with an UMP and BMD promptly fixed it.

So you had an issue with a 6 year old Panasonic camera and Panasonic wouldn't fix it? Hmmm?

Comparing a mirrorless hybrid to a camera designed more for cine use is really silly. You know most mirrorless cameras also have heaps of features that the Alexa doesn't? Alexa doesn't have AutoFocus, flash support, or NFC, or or dual SD card slots, or work on 100% of gimbals.........is it a bad camera? But where Alexa does win is image, codecs and ease of use for shooting video so it's a bit ridiculous to dismiss these in the Pocket4k as that is what is most important in a cine style camera. Video Codecs are NOT the priority in a hybrid mirrorless camera. While you may look at a spec sheet and see a long list of features on your mirrorless camera, I guarantee that a proper DP, editor or Colourist is not going to give two shits about 99% of those features.

So the $1k P4K should be thought of more like an Alexa mini than a hybrid. That's fantastic.  All you need is a full crew to run it and a multimillion dollar budget. No pesky things like IBIS, OIS or Gimbal compatibility no longer matter. And since you have a team of colorist you can focus on what really matters... RAW!

Who needs AF when you have Focus Pullers? Right?

I'll tell you what this camera is... a bit of a hodgepodge. It leaves out features a single operator would need,  yet poses as a viable option for the same demographic. Go to the website... look how they are marketing it. The guy in the skate park. He'll keep up with the fast paced action with manual focus and no crew. Look at the girl filming on the back of the ATV... with no gimbal and no image stabilization and no AF. The last picture shows a wedding photographer recording handheld... because it's designed to be handheld... we know this because BMD clearly say it on their website. 

I think many will be in for a rude awaking with this camera. 

But hey, if the feature you find on the GH5 are important to you, then just buy a GH5. The great thing is, you can choose what works best for you.

But ultimately, all those features do not contribute to a nice 'cinematic' (I hate that word) image.

I've seen cinematic imagery in 480p... I've seen it in black and white. Cinematography is not a function of a codec... most of it has absolutely nothing to do with the camera. That said, you do need to capture the shot... and that's where those features you dismiss become important. 

I believe in the primary camera role this camera will need a crew. If this is not you... the GH5/S is a better choice with it's useless practicality.

 

 

 

[Mattias Burling]

2 hours ago, A_Urquhart said:

Firstly, lets just get this out of the way. No camera is better!

100% fact. Can't be said enough.

[DBounce]

2 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

100% fact. Can't be said enough.

Then do I have a deal for you?

 

[Mattias Burling]

That just means that you dont get it or proves my point.

That camera kicks your GH5s in the ass all day long, as a kids camera imo. I would never buy a GH5s to a four-year old child. That camera is much better for that imo. 

Same way I think mounting a GH5s under a skateboard is pretty stupid. Or try to shoot the next Star Wars on a Gopro. Or use a s35mm film camera as a surveillance camera.

The "best" camera doesn't exist. Fact

[jonpais]

popcorn time. ?

[Anaconda_]

1 minute ago, Mattias Burling said:

I would never buy a GH5s to a four-year old child.

My 4 year old has a Sony PD170.

[Mattias Burling]

3 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

My 4 year old has a Sony PD170.

Super cute!

[anonim]

2 hours ago, A_Urquhart said:

No the Pocket isn't but then, are your Veydra primes dust, splash and freeze resistant? No they are not.

You're seriously not going to sacrifice your expensive lenses out in the weather unprotected just because your cheap body that will be outdates in a few years is weather sealed are you?

But freeze resistance is very important for not just few of shooters and I had whole day shooting with Voigtlanders and GH5 at -10C. It seems to me that Veydras are very close or same ih building quality with Voigts... But of course, I don't know how Pocket 4K would behаve in such circumstances.

So, argument of @Jon Pais  is not out of reason at least regarding freeze resistance quality of some Panasonic and Olympus cameras.

[jonpais]

Some will say the GH5s looks warmer, more cinematic.

Others will say the Pocket 4K has better motion cadence and color science.

Pixel peepers will say the Pocket has better highlight recovery.

Skeptics will say they're practically indistinguishable.

All I've gotta say is, the GH5s acquits itself quite well and would be a great gift idea for anyone's four year-old niece.  

 

 

[MattH]

1 hour ago, DBounce said:

 

You're right.  The pocket 4k has literally no advantages.  Might as well throw it in the bin.

[Yannick Willox]

One big advantage of the gh5s is the multiaspectsensor... it is much wider with the same lens !

but the models skin looks much better to me on the p4k.

 

[webrunner5]

There is no way in hell the GH5 or the GH5s is going to have a better overall output than the PK4 can produce. End of story. Now for convenience to get that better output, sure it is sucking ass compared to a GH5, GH5s.

[jonpais]

GH5s (L), Pocket (R)

[DBounce]

24 minutes ago, MattH said:

You're right.  The pocket 4k has literally no advantages.  Might as well throw it in the bin.

I wouldn’t go that far. But whatever advantages it may have comes at the expense of some important functionality when operating alone.

Many discount the need for such features with the excuse that it’s a cinema camera. But cinema cameras generally use cinema lenses with distant markings that are used in conjunction with position marks on the set so that focus can be set beforehand. How many P4k users will be doing this?

That’s just one example, but needless to say many of these features on hybrid cameras exist to make the task of capturing the shot plausible for a single operator.

9 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

There is no way in hell the GH5 or the GH5s is going to have a better overall output than the PK4 can produce. End of story. Now for convenience to get that better output, sure it is sucking ass compared to a GH5, GH5s.

Don’t worry most will never get those shots. The skills and crew required will keep such imagery safely out of reach of most. Goggle Red Raven footage and get ready for a feast of out of focus shots?

[webrunner5]

3 minutes ago, DBounce said:

 

Which is exactly why most buyers will never get it. Goggle Red Raven footage and get ready for a feast of out of focus shots?

Very true. But if I was talented enough to try to break into the indie market I would buy the PK4 over the Gh5. Now if I was rich I would have the PK4 and the GH5s to try to inter mix using an external recorder on it shooting ProRes.

We are still back to no one camera is the best for every situation. And I doubt that will ever change.

[DBounce]

1 minute ago, webrunner5 said:

Very true. But if I was talented enough to try to break into the indie market I would buy the PK4 over the Gh5. Now if I was rich I would have the PK4 and the GH5s to try to inter mix using an external recorder on it shooting ProRes.

We are still back to no one camera is the best for every situation. And I doubt that will ever change.

And there would be your mistake, because the P4k will require more resources to actually shoot nice footage. 

FYI: when I was at NAB I asked the Panasonic rep about ProRes Raw... and he said it could be added as a firmware update if they felt the need to up the ante should the P4k threaten the GH series. So don’t be surprised if that happens. Also Atomos and Apple are busy trying to convince camera manufacturers to get onboard with their new format.

[Andrew Reid]

1 hour ago, jonpais said:

Some will say the GH5s looks warmer, more cinematic.

Others will say the Pocket 4K has better motion cadence and color science.

Pixel peepers will say the Pocket has better highlight recovery.

Skeptics will say they're practically indistinguishable.

All I've gotta say is, the GH5s acquits itself quite well and would be a great gift idea for anyone's four year-old niece.  

 

 

Nice Berlin model that is for sure

They look pretty similar to me and the BMD LUT comparison saw the GH5S come out ahead due to the better exposed skintones, but then that is more a comment on the LUT than the camera.

I like the slightly higher black point in the Pocket 4K close-up shot of the eyes... But again that is just grading.

I'm still waiting to see a demonstration of the actual image quality advantages of the Pocket 4K's RAW codec rather than just pretty pictures, so I'll be sure to check out Slashcam's next article. Should be quite revealing.

[webrunner5]

8 minutes ago, DBounce said:

And there would be your mistake, because the P4k will require more resources to actually shoot nice footage. 

FYI: when I was at NAB I asked the Panasonic rep about ProRes Raw... and he said it could be added as a firmware update if they felt the need to up the ante should the P4k threaten the GH series. So don’t be surprised if that happens. Also Atomos and Apple are busy trying to convince camera manufacturers to get onboard with their new format.

Yeah but even if the Panasonic cameras get it there will still be a difference. BMD just has better Color Science. The PK4 is sort of a poor mans UMP 4.6. I think for pure film making it is a better tool. No real Cine camera is just a real Joy to use compared to say your Fuji X-T3. They take effort to get it right. A hell of a lot of effort. Hell if it was easy everyone would be making 5 Star movies.

And nobody said making movies was cheap. Even your C200 rigged out well has to be over 10 grand, and that is a bargain compared to some!

[jonpais]

I don't think so. A Panasonic rep at NAB wouldn't have the slightest clue what Panasonic would do if the Pocket took off, nor would he know whether ProRes RAW could be added via a firmware update. If a rep did even have that information, they would never say so at the show.