deezid Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said: To everyone who asked me why they shouldn’t shoot 60fps (or 120) for a 25p project. This is why. Everything is so flickery. Did you convert it to Rec709 inside ACES? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Urquhart Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said: To everyone who asked me why they shouldn’t shoot 60fps (or 120) for a 25p project. This is why. Everything is so flickery. I live in a 50hz country (Australia) and just did a test here at home. Setting the HFR frame rate on the Pocket4k to 60p (but keeping the project rate at 25p) does result in flicker at 180degree shutter as would be expected. But, If you change the shutter to 216 degrees, the flicker goes away. Just tested this with a flouro tube, domestic LED's and incandescent bulb and no flicker with any of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaconda_ Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Right. You could also shoot at 30p with that shutter angle and the lights won’t flicker. I still wouldn’t do it though haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Urquhart Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 13 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said: Right. You could also shoot at 30p with that shutter angle and the lights won’t flicker. I still wouldn’t do it though haha. Why is that? Do you only use 180 degree shutter exclusively? Not sure why you would want to shoot 30fps though. If you wanted a very slight slowmo effect you could shoot at 33fps which eliminates flicker at 180 degrees with LED's and incandescent. A bit of rolling flicker with Flouro's though at 33fps and 180 degree but this is fixable by choosing 237.6 degrees When shooting 60p, it is more for slow and a shutter angle of 216 is perfectly acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaconda_ Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Mostly, but it’s more of a ‘only use multiples of project frame rate exclusively’. I only mentioned 30fps as it’ll have the same flicker as 60 at 180deg The shutter angle/speed introduces or reduces motion blur. So if you shot at 60fps with 90deg you’d also loose (hide) the flicker. In that scenario though, you won’t have sharp slowmo which mean ugly footage. I actually read for nicer slow motion, you should use more than 180deg. The sharper the better. Motion blur at real time allows the footage to look realistic, but slow motion by nature is not realistic and so shouldn’t live by the 180 rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Urquhart Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said: Mostly, but it’s more of a ‘only use multiples of project frame rate exclusively’. The shutter angle/speed introduces or reduces motion blur. So if you shot at 60fps with 90deg you’d also loose (hide) the flicker. In that scenario though, you won’t have sharp slowmo which mean ugly footage. I actually read for nicer slow motion, you should use more than 180deg. The sharper the better. Motion blur at real time allows the footage to look realistic, but slow motion by nature is not realistic and so shouldn’t live by the 180 rule. But the 216 degree shutter angle I suggested IS more than 180degrees. I wouldn't suggest shooting slow at 90 degrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaconda_ Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Ah - but you edited you post while I was replying haha. Anyway, my point is if you deviate from multiples of the project frame rate you’re allowing space for flicker and if you change your mind later and want to play back at normal speed, you’re making life hard for yourself. Stick to multiples of the project frame rate and you can use whatever shutter speed/angle you want and never worry - even if you want to playback at full speed later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted October 13, 2018 Super Members Share Posted October 13, 2018 10 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said: Why is that? Beacuse then you limit all your clips to slowmo only. If you want some realtime or do a warp it will look like a porly made stop motion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Urquhart Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said: Ah - but you edited you post while I was replying haha. I did, but I didn't change anything that you referred too. I stated 216 degrees from the start. Never edited that. 4 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said: Beacuse then you limit all your clips to slowmo only. If you want some realtime or do a warp it will look like a porly made stop motion. Yes, shooting at 50p gives you more flexibility in post but if you know what you are trying to achieve when you are shooting, 60p is a viable option and can be used without flicker if need be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaconda_ Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Well then I jumped the gun with my response, sorry about that. If 60p at 216 works for you, crack on. Personally I’d stick to 50p and have more flexibility, both while shooting and in the edit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Urquhart Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 I love how when you toggle the HFR function on the camera, the shutter angles all change to reflect the project and HFR speed you have set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Of course. I guess he meant the typical 30p aka soap opera frame rate instead. shooter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Urquhart Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said: Well then I jumped the gun with my response, sorry about that. If 60p at 216 works for you, crack on. Personally I’d stick to 50p and have more flexibility, both while shooting and in the edit. No worries and for most scenarios, I completely agree that 50p is a safer option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said: Well then I jumped the gun with my response, sorry about that. If 60p at 216 works for you, crack on. Personally I’d stick to 50p and have more flexibility, both while shooting and in the edit. ah OK, so take a look here: http://urbanvideo.ca/avoid-video-flicker Hope this helps, E : -) shooter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Urquhart Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 1 hour ago, A_Urquhart said: Hi Turbo, I too would love to move over to BMC user but while I am registered there, have never been given permission to post and have contacted the mods countless times but no-one seems to be home. Looking forward to a forum that isn't run by a Nazi. Andrew closed the topic I created directing arguments between the GH5 and Pocket4k to another thread. It's his way or the highway here at EOSHD! ? MattH 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaconda_ Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Sorry about the detour then... Can the GH5 shoot 60p at 180 with no flicker? @Emanuel nice link - but I still feel like you're opening holes to make mistakes in by choosing 60p. All you're gaining is slightly slower footage, but in my opinion it's costing a lot both on the shoot and in the edit. You need to ensure your shutter speed is right (with 50p anything will work regarding the flicker), and you're locked into slow motion. If you're making a documentary it's very hard to tell how you want to use our footage until you're editing it. At 60p you can't do any ramping or play with it at all really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slothorp Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 58 minutes ago, Emanuel said: Looks some Iscorama glass coupled there. To me, bothers much more that flickering over there which could be corrected with the use of proper shutter speed BTW : ) Aside the dichotomy 50Hz vs 60Hz for 25/50/100 or 24/60/120 fps, respectively. Some guys on facebook prefer to concentrate upon the flickering (which was just a 50hz/60 p issue that I wanted to check) or the anamorphic effect to the image. But they don't wan to see the red clipping. The settings : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaconda_ Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Slothorp said: prefer to concentrate upon the flickering (which was just a 50hz/60 p issue that I wanted to check) or the anamorphic effect to the image. But they don't wan to see the red clipping. That's because the flickering is much more distracting than the red lights. If you didn't mention it, I wouldn't have noticed. Red light is hot on basically every camera I've used, especially when there's less light around it like in this shot. For me in this night scene, the red isn't a problem at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slothorp Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Well, i find the reds very disturbing. And I can't imagine how it is on a big screen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deezid Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said: That's because the flickering is much more distracting than the red lights. If you didn't mention it, I wouldn't have noticed. Red light is hot on basically every camera I've used, especially when there's less light around it like in this shot. For me in this night scene, the red isn't a problem at all. The red clipping in this example looks terrible. I wonder if it's in the RAW or ProRes file. Really weird. First time I've seen it on this camera. Looks more like an ACES issue I ran into using Pocket 4K footage before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.