Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[MattH]

5 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

 

You are looking at ONE pretty piss poor video comparison. Hardly definitive evidence.

It doesn't matter.  Its half the price.   My comment is simply refuting the claim that the 120fps on the GH5s is better.  They both seem fine to me for what 120 fps is worth.

[webrunner5]

2 minutes ago, MattH said:

It doesn't matter.  Its half the price.   My comment is simply refuting the claim that the 120fps on the GH5s is better.    They both seem fine to me for what 120 fps is worth.

No it isn't the same, the PK4 has a HELL of a crop. What you going to buy a 4mm lens to shot with it at wide angle? It is pretty much useless for wide angle stuff. Wide angle is in, at least this month LoL. I think it really is Only usable up to 100fps which isn't bad, but the GH5s does 192 with no crop. Big difference if you are into super slo mo. And if you are trying to make money to do this you may be asked to do slo mo from hell.

[homestar_kevin]

Is anyone really buying this for the slowmo?

It's nice that they threw it in, but I'm more after beefy prores files recorded directly in cam and all the other positives this $1300 camera offers.

[emhoward]

3 hours ago, deezid said:

True, most people are like: Yh let's ignore that great shadow dr and blow out some high lights instead... ?

Would either of you elaborate on what is the correct way to expose this camera - is it a matter of correctly exposing rather than going by the ETTR method that folks have traditional done with Blackmagic cameras to avoid noise

[deezid]

1 minute ago, webrunner5 said:

And in what situation do you plan to be able to do that making money? Taking video of flowers in your back yard on a tripod? With no continuous AF you aren't do Doc, Corporate interview stuff, no fast moving stuff. Not unless you have a 7mm lens set to infinity and everyone looks like little piss ants LoL.

You are looking a ONE pretty piss poor video comparison. Hardly definitive evidence.

Ever heard of follow focus? Also GH5(s) continuous AF will destroy your footage unless you're using a 7mm lens with a closed aperture.

The GH5s has horrible sharpening artifacts at -5 sharpening and horizontal pattern noise even appearing in shadows at base ISO. Way lower dynamic range also.

Advantages over the P4K are like 3 times better battery life, flip screen (but smaller) and Ibis using the GH5. I prefer image quality though.

 

[MattH]

1 minute ago, webrunner5 said:

No it isn't the same, the PK4 has a HELL of a crop.

The GH5s 120p is clearly line skipped.  Evidenced by the jaggies.  That's how it avoids cropping.    A crop at 120fps when you are getting smooth details is really spoilt rich man problems.

[deezid]

4 minutes ago, emhoward said:

Would either of you elaborate on what is the correct way to expose this camera - is it a matter of correctly exposing rather than going by the ETTR method that folks have traditional done with Blackmagic cameras to avoid noise

Ettr doesn't mean blowing highlights out though. Even doing ETTR on the GH5 to maximize dynamic range with great results. But when I can I center the histogram/waveform to make better use of the baked in gamma curve - which is irrelevant on raw though 

[webrunner5]

24 minutes ago, MattH said:

It doesn't matter.  Its half the price.  

There is a reason it is Half the price. It has Half the the features of a GH5, GH5s. I bet, even on here, half the people that buy a PK4 will have it for sale in the Sub Section in less than 3 months. You are going to have 3 thousand dollars or more tied up in one to make it really work. Right out of the box it is pretty useless for a modern camera today.

And don't give me the ProRes crap. I can buy a 200 dollar Ninja Star and get ProRes on any camera that has a clean HDMI out..

I bet most people on here had the BMPCC at one time and got rid of it. Sure it was a fabulous camera output wise. But it was a Total pain in the ass to use. And the PK4 is not going to be much different. How many people Still have a BMPCC on here. Damn few I bet, and if they do have it they use it less and less.

Hey no doubt it is going to have great output if you are good at getting it and can grade well. But that is not going to be a speed demon at doing it. I just find it would work for me, but I just don't see it fitting into most peoples workflow. More of a toy to be honest for most. But nothing wrong with that. I would imagine we all have plenty of toys among us.

[MattH]

14 minutes ago, deezid said:

Ettr doesn't mean blowing highlights out though. Even doing ETTR on the GH5 to maximize dynamic range with great results. But when I can I center the histogram/waveform to make better use of the baked in gamma curve - which is irrelevant on raw though 

Yes!  In fact Ettr literally means not blowing the highlights.  It means exposing as far to the right on the histogram as you can without blowing highlights. (not counting things you choose to blow).  It's only really aplicable in raw though.

[Kisaha]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

Oh I can't deny that. But if a person is trying to made money at doing this stuff I don't see how anyone can buy a PK4 over a GH5, GH5s. The PK4 is just going to be too damn slow, clunky, fussy to use on paid gigs.

And you sure as Hell are not taking pictures on the PK4.

This is a moving images capturing machine. If anyone cares for a hybrid camera is in the wrong thread. GH5S isn't a good photo taking machine either, but it takes pictures for sure. I thought this is a hard fact clearly understood by everyone already.

My hybrid cameras do ok 120fps and in 4 years I have used it just once. My favorite "money making tool", C100 do not either.

I used to work in advertising operating specialized high speed cameras, and as YOU mentioned on a little while ago, can't stand slow motion videos at all anymore! In other specilized circumstances we used to rent the FS700, as you already mentioned!

Also the AF in my pro video work consists of less than 5% (maybe less than 3%!), even though I work with very good hybrid AF and C100mkII/C300mkII cameras most of the time. 

The GH AF is not something to talk about, not a strong Panasonic selling point anyway.

[tonysss]

59 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

How many people Still have a BMPCC on here. Damn few I bet, and if they do have it they use it less and less.

exactly the opposite ?  I bought BMPCC recently and I prefer it before my GH5 for DR and Color

BMPCC for shooting people document, music video, film (BMPCC will not forgive you, you have to learn the filmmaking craft, nothing slowmo YEP ? 

last work https://youtu.be/Pk_Qyuy_r5M

I use GH5 for shooting event, wedding, (Run&Gun situation)

[webrunner5]

6 minutes ago, tonysss said:

exactly the opposite ?  I bought BMPCC recently and I prefer it before my GH5 for DR and Color

BMPCC for shooting people document, music video, film (BMPCC will not forgive you, you have to learn the filmmaking craft, nothing slowmo YEP ? 

last work https://youtu.be/Pk_Qyuy_r5M

I use GH5 for shooting event, wedding, (Run&Gun situation)

Great footage by the way. They are an amazing camera no doubt. I am sure in the right hands the PK4 can be also.

[BenEricson]

6 minutes ago, tonysss said:

exactly the opposite ?  I bought BMPCC recently and I prefer it before my GH5 for DR and Color

BMPCC for shooting people document, music video, film (BMPCC will not forgive you, you have to learn the filmmaking craft, nothing slowmo YEP ? 

last work https://youtu.be/Pk_Qyuy_r5M

I use GH5 for shooting event, wedding, (Run&Gun situation)

Better looking footage than any of the BMPCC4K I have seen. 

I recently rebought the pocket as well. You need an external battery and the IR Cut filter, but once outfitted, the camera is really excellent. 

[Turboguard]

14 hours ago, jbCinC_12 said:

My feelings exactly.  The 60/120p slow-mo is cool and all, but what about the 24p, 30p?  How about showing what it offers in 1080p.  One can only hope.

 

14 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Does Anyone shoot Anything in normal speeds anymore? Jesus what is the deal with trying to see if Anything is worth a crap on a camera at 120p Slo Mo. Sam Peckinpah is alive and well.

I uploaded a few ProRes 1080p 24fps in this thread last week. 

[webrunner5]

Really shows off what Raw can do with the PK4.

 

[BenEricson]

18 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Really shows off what Raw can do with the PK4.

 

 

[Anaconda_]

To be fair. That truck is the result of stacking a number of photos, all with different exposures, to get the HDR effect. 

If you think the P4K frame looks like that, it is a compliment as 1 frame from this camera holds a comparable amount of info / dr as multiple frames from another camera.  

How you use that much info is up to you.

[majoraxis]

As metadata determines display and native ISO determines exposure you can have usable exposure (not clipping) and unsalable display (clipping). You can’t trust your display when shooting RAW but you can trust Zebras with RAW to show you if you are clipping regardless of what the ISO is set to on the Pocket 4k. I assume you can trust display if you set it to a native ISO (400 or 3200).

[dslnc]

4 hours ago, MattH said:

The crop is defined by the scan speed of the sensor.    120 fps means a frame every 8.33 milliseconds.  If the entire sensor cant be scanned in that amount of time then full sensor readout 120 fps is physically impossible.  The two options then are either to line skip the whole sensor or to do a full readout of a smaller proportion of the sensor.   The pocket4k has clearly opted for the latter.   I doubt the GH5 or GH5s have readout speeds of less than 8.33 milliseconds so if they have full sensor 120 fps then it is probably line skipped.

I cannot, for the life of me, think why someone would need a 120 fps slow motion shot of a still detailed wide city-scape like that in which 60fps wasn't adequate.   If you are doing 120 fps slow motion it is usually of something that is moving and thus detail is less important.   If detail is really important then simply play 60 fps at half speed.  In sports broadcasts they often achieve the slow motion by playing each frame about 3 times, and that looks smooth enough.   The original pocket didn't even have 60fps.  To me it just seems a silly ask to expect 4k detail 120fps full mft sensor from a camera of this price.

The thing is - if it can do a 4K/UHD 60p readout. Then it should be possible to do a cropped 1080p240 readout as well ( haha being demanding on my side. Maybe it is saved for a future firmware update )

[MattH]

16 minutes ago, dslnc said:

The thing is - if it can do a 4K/UHD 60p readout. Then it should be possible to do a cropped 1080p240 readout as well ( haha being demanding on my side. Maybe it is saved for a future firmware update )

Hmm.  Maybe it cant scan partial lines?    If the scan duration was proportional to the imaging area then yes it would be able to do 120p at a larger crop than 2x and be able to do 240p at 2x.

So Im thinking the scan speed must be proportional only to the number of lines being scanned.