Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[BenEricson]

52 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Indeed... nuff said, Dual ISO talks : -)

Crazy. I hope this is why there is so much harsh highlight clipping in most of the videos I have seen. Is there an ISO200? What ISO are most people shooting? 

[RWR]

Red clipping?
 

[TurboRat]

38 minutes ago, RWR said:

Red clipping?
 

Just a minor thing that I hope Blackmagic addresses. Usually seen at red lights at night but at the test look at the red thingie at right side in the background at iso 3200

[Matthew Campbell]

On 11/1/2018 at 6:39 PM, DBounce said:

Oh look, it's another slowmo video.

Who cares? As long as he enjoys doing it, then who gives a shit? So what there's a ton of them? They are fun to shoot and edit for a lot of people. There will be plenty more non-slow motion projects coming out in the near future. 

The fact that he'd get even less noise if he was shooting at 24fps should say a fair amount about this camera. 

[Anaconda_]

3 hours ago, BenEricson said:

What ISO are most people shooting? 

I’m sticking to 400 and 3200 and using nds to adjust for my setting - so far, it seems to be working out well. 

7 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Even the polycarbonate plastic construction doesn't bother me. If anything it's good, because it makes for a very lightweight construction.

And when you have Sigmas 18-35, it’s plenty heavy enough to stay stable when handheld.

glad you got the camera and are able to put things behind and not look at it through sour eyes. Looking forward to your review.

[Shirozina]

4 hours ago, Emanuel said:

Indeed... nuff said, Dual ISO talks : -)

This is a stupid test. DR goes down ( quite significantly) as you ramp up gain from zero ( Ramp up ISO from base) so any overexposure is going to hit highlight clipping faster - DOH!

Who in any semi-competent use of this or any camera is going to overexpose by 3 stops anyway and expect to recover highlights esp highlights in skintones? In a real world situation the clipping highlights on skintones would have been obvious from the zebras or scopes so the user would have brought the exposure down.

As ISO gain reduces DR the real world test would be a more ETTR based exposure method ( esp with RAW) and the differences between cameras and/ or ISO's would be to look at the shadow recovery.

Repeat - this is not a test that in anyway represents a real world situation to anyone competent or even remotely aware of how to expose footage correctly.

Due to the DR limitations when you move away from base ISO I just avoid it as much as possible - increase you lighting or open up the aperture or use a faster lens. The P4k has very respectable DR at base ISO but start to deviate from it and you are quickly into the kind of DR you get with a mobile phone! 

[Kisaha]

The interesting fact with this sensor (that applies to GH5S as well) is the X1.2 form factor with the widest possible speed booster. I believe this is good enough for most people, FF lovers and - nothing ever in focus - people included.

The work flow around this fact is the most interesting part.

Which lenses work well and which ones with limitations, and what limitations are those?

The Fuji MK lens could be a great combo, imagine if one could have the X-T3 and the P4K as their other cam and can put the MK on both cameras, that brings another dimension to the whole "X-T3 vs P4K" conversation!

The other part of the process is the run n gun approach. A couple of native zooms with IS and touch AF are mandatory. If one owns the X-T3 or any other modern hybrid, can use that other cam for r n gunning or very light and fast turn around projects anyway 

[thephoenix]

for french people

to summ up he really loves the image quality but hates the plastic build and the power management

he had many issues with the camera going 20% to shutting off with no warning what so ever, the result was the loss of the file he was shooting

 

[Shirozina]

12 minutes ago, thephoenix said:

 

he had many issues with the camera going 20% to shutting off with no warning what so ever

 

I've noticed this with the included BM battery but the Canon batteries seem to be more predictable.

[thephoenix]

seems he has issues with all his batteries and he has canon ones, actually his first move was to remove the "crap" battery delivered with it to replace it with a canon one.

at the ends he ends up saying ot os a really good deal for the price.

also says that it is strange to offer "raw" wether this is not real raw as you buy a cheap camera to run so heavy files that will cost a ton in hardware.

 

first camera showed is the black magic

[zerocool22]

55 minutes ago, thephoenix said:

seems he has issues with all his batteries and he has canon ones, actually his first move was to remove the "crap" battery delivered with it to replace it with a canon one.

at the ends he ends up saying ot os a really good deal for the price.

also says that it is strange to offer "raw" wether this is not real raw as you buy a cheap camera to run so heavy files that will cost a ton in hardware.

 

first camera showed is the black magic

Is it compatible with the dji ronin-s?

[Shirozina]

1 hour ago, thephoenix said:

strange to offer "raw" wether this is not real raw as you buy a cheap camera to run so heavy files that will cost a ton in hardware.

They are not that heavy ( you get 3 options) and what ton of hardware does he mean?. Any rig that can handle 4k high compression video files should be able to handle RAW and even the camera media is dirt cheap if you use an ext SSD esp when compared to internal cards needed for other cameras. Also you are not forced to use RAW as it's an option.

[webrunner5]

4 hours ago, Shirozina said:

This is a stupid test. DR goes down ( quite significantly) as you ramp up gain from zero ( Ramp up ISO from base) so any overexposure is going to hit highlight clipping faster - DOH!

Who in any semi-competent use of this or any camera is going to overexpose by 3 stops anyway and expect to recover highlights esp highlights in skintones? In a real world situation the clipping highlights on skintones would have been obvious from the zebras or scopes so the user would have brought the exposure down.

As ISO gain reduces DR the real world test would be a more ETTR based exposure method ( esp with RAW) and the differences between cameras and/ or ISO's would be to look at the shadow recovery.

Repeat - this is not a test that in anyway represents a real world situation to anyone competent or even remotely aware of how to expose footage correctly.

Due to the DR limitations when you move away from base ISO I just avoid it as much as possible - increase you lighting or open up the aperture or use a faster lens. The P4k has very respectable DR at base ISO but start to deviate from it and you are quickly into the kind of DR you get with a mobile phone! 

Well with this thing having Dual ISO some of those thoughts are out the window. 3200 is 3 stops over base and it is nearly as good as 400. Whole new beast this camera is to the average person. Going to take a lot of trial and error to figure all of it out.

Surely the GH5s owners have some experience, even the EVA1, Varicam owners on what works the best.

 

 

[thephoenix]

33 minutes ago, Shirozina said:

They are not that heavy ( you get 3 options) and what ton of hardware does he mean?. Any rig that can handle 4k high compression video files should be able to handle RAW and even the camera media is dirt cheap if you use an ext SSD esp when compared to internal cards needed for other cameras. Also you are not forced to use RAW as it's an option.

his point is why spending so little money in a camera to shoot raw when it will cost you 5k to process it (he means computer, storage...)

 

48 minutes ago, zerocool22 said:

Is it compatible with the dji ronin-s?

just on comments under the video they say it is, which is great news

[Shirozina]

8 minutes ago, thephoenix said:

his point is why spending so little money in a camera to shoot raw when it will cost you 5k to process it (he means computer, storage...)

 

 

But It doesn't cost £5k  to process and store unless you are starting video from scratch but then you can say you need to spend extra to buy an editing machine and storage space for any camera you buy.

[Emanuel]

5 hours ago, Shirozina said:

This is a stupid test. DR goes down ( quite significantly) as you ramp up gain from zero ( Ramp up ISO from base) so any overexposure is going to hit highlight clipping faster - DOH!

Who in any semi-competent use of this or any camera is going to overexpose by 3 stops anyway and expect to recover highlights esp highlights in skintones? In a real world situation the clipping highlights on skintones would have been obvious from the zebras or scopes so the user would have brought the exposure down.

As ISO gain reduces DR the real world test would be a more ETTR based exposure method ( esp with RAW) and the differences between cameras and/ or ISO's would be to look at the shadow recovery.

Repeat - this is not a test that in anyway represents a real world situation to anyone competent or even remotely aware of how to expose footage correctly.

Due to the DR limitations when you move away from base ISO I just avoid it as much as possible - increase you lighting or open up the aperture or use a faster lens. The P4k has very respectable DR at base ISO but start to deviate from it and you are quickly into the kind of DR you get with a mobile phone! 

I understand your point but, I don't find this test useless as matter of fact. ETTR, that is, expose to the right is the way to go with this camera. 

[helium]

9 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

 ETTR, that is, expose to the right is the way to go with this camera. 

Only if what you're shooting is unconnected street or nature scenes and you're using it like a stills camera.  Otherwise, the best practice for this camera is to expose for the subject, as you would with any cinema camera.  

[Emanuel]

9 hours ago, BenEricson said:

Crazy. I hope this is why there is so much harsh highlight clipping in most of the videos I have seen. Is there an ISO200? What ISO are most people shooting? 

Both dual native 400 and 3200 ISO coupled to ETTR and you are just fine. Have no worries anymore about it : -)

20 minutes ago, helium said:

Only if what you're shooting is unconnected street or nature scenes and you're using it like a stills camera.  Otherwise, the best practice for this camera is to expose for the subject, as you would with any cinema camera.  

No complaints about, circumstances vary. It will also depend on your shooting style and last but not least, subjects to shoot for sure. Obviously. But, if you want to protect your highlights, you'll have enough DR room from your clean shadows to go on ETTR : -)

[Shirozina]

4 minutes ago, helium said:

Only if what you're shooting is unconnected street or nature scenes and you're using it like a stills camera.  Otherwise, the best practice for this camera is to expose for the subject, as you would with any cinema camera.  

No the best practice is to relate the brightness range of your scene to DR of the camera and make any necessary compromises to areas that fall outside it with regards to highlight clipping and /or noise floor. You can use ETTR, histogram, false colour etc or all of them. ETTR or 'exposing for the subject' are not correct for every scenario.

[helium]

33 minutes ago, Shirozina said:

No the best practice is to relate the brightness range of your scene to DR of the camera and make any necessary compromises to areas that fall outside it with regards to highlight clipping and /or noise floor. You can use ETTR, histogram, false colour etc or all of them. ETTR or 'exposing for the subject' are not correct for every scenario.

Yeah, well, that's a basic presumption of cinema lighting -- you light the scene.  But you expose for the subject.  If there's no lighting, then we're back to the more haphazard approach of available light stills photography, where the best compromise is sought.