Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[webrunner5]

Oh I am not saying the older ones have a look everyone likes. I really like it. But yeah it is Hard to get a cleaner look from the old ones, and that is what is in now. I can see why you went that way. And true the GH5s is more expensive, but you don't have to buy all the stuff to add to it like you do the PK4, so it is really not much more money in the long run. And V90 cards are cheaper than CFast cards, although they aren't giving away either one of them away!

[Emanuel]

You can use triple V90, CFast and SSD on P4K, as well, there's nothing you have on GH5s you don't have along with the new Pocket. Well, you won't have the superior set of codecs -- RAW included, a way more effective and useful 5" monitoring tool, without mention an intuitive interface capable of better results you're just missing because you'd rather deny to yourself the experience you refuse to replace the usual myth with, the one you insist to keep spreading over these pages.

E : -)

[webrunner5]

5 hours ago, Jim Giberti said:

Regarding the person who produced the video about returning his P4K in favor of his Micro - from a straight shooting experience, he needs to have his head examined

We've got a lot of cameras, mostly BM, and a couple of Micros, whose images I love. In fact I wrote at one tome that if BM would take the Micro cinema sensor and put into a real camera body I would buy them for three times their cost.

The Micro is the most disfunctional camera you can shoot. A simple menu change takes forever in any environment. Tiny unrecognizable buttons on tiny stripped down senor box - but what a sensor and color science. And it's that way by design. It's supposed to be a drone or special use crash cam for TV/cinema production - not an actual shooters cam.

The P4K is the exact reverse of that - perhaps the easiest small camera to use on set or in the field - a brilliant camera as far as shooting goes.

And the idea that upressing the Micro footage in Resolve is better than shooting 4K/UHD on the P4K is a real head scratcher. Just spend some time learning how to optimize the image at aquisition and then how to work with the amazingly maleable image to get the look you want.

It took very little time shooting and working in post to get the image to look like the original Pocket or Micro etc.

You can't make any of the previous BM cameras (except the UMP) look like the P4K but you can easily do the reverse if you want to learn how.

I don't want a camera that looks like the PK4. I don't like the damn look, or the body design. How hard is that to comprehend. Why would I want to take a BMPCC and try to make it look like the PK4. You act just because you like something Everybody is suppose to like it. If that person likes the Micro that is his business. Why you knocking his decision? Other people on here like the Micro also. I don't because you have to rig the hell out of it, just like the PK4, and I could give a rats ass about slo mo.

I am sure they will sell a bunch of them. But not one to me.

1 hour ago, Emanuel said:

You can use triple V90, CFast and SSD on P4K, as well, there's nothing you have on GH5s you don't have along with the new Pocket. Well, you won't have the superior set of codecs -- RAW included, a way more effective and useful 5" monitoring tool, without mention an intuitive interface capable of better results you're just missing because you'd rather deny to yourself the experience you refuse to replace the usual myth with, the one you insist to keep spreading over these pages.

E : -)

Well why the hell don't you show us all how good the footage is out of yours! I can get ProRes and Raw out of a GH5s using a Atomos recorder. Big deal. It will have the same look as the PK4, Z Cam E2, Kinfinity 4K. They all use the same sensor, and they all look pretty much the same using ProRes.

[Emanuel]

Don, I have used the camera strictly for personal usage so far with a simple manual lens coupled to it. Reliable focus assist reminds me I will never want to shoot in a smaller monitoring (non-)capability size. And zero need for a rig, actually. On the contrary.

Take a look on my work you can follow from my signature. The projects I participate either as producer or/and shooter take a few years before to see the light.

 

Trust my input though:

This is the best camera ever designed and manufactured.

I deal with these devices for thirty years today.

It is not only the IQ, the way the light is handled by sensor, codecs from ProRes to RAW in-camera more than mere range of specs as single promises to sell straight out the paper, also the color science, the ease of use as much as any photo camera for decades, form factor and ergonomics then, so everything.

 

I am completely sold. You should know how skeptical I was on their business policies before.

 

E : -)

[graphicnatured]

9 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Bullshit. I have never seen any footage out of the PK4 that looks like a BMPCC or a BMCC. And apparently everyone that has bought one on here must be broken camera because I haven't seen really Any footage from them on here either. Talk is cheap on both sides.

But sure as goofy as the PK4 is, it is better in a few respects than the old ones. But that was a not a hard task to accomplish. I am not buying one, that's a fact. I'll buy a GH5s.  Same look, better camera..

What do you mean by goofy? I don't see anything goofy about this camera. I love my micro, but that thing is 100% goofy. I love my pocket, but it's as goofy as can be. I'm thinking you just chose the wrong word to explain your position, because a p4k is definitely not goofy. I'm thinking you've seen it online and don't like the way it looks by reading your further comments. Have you used one? Have you held it in your hand for a weekend of shooting? Having used a pocket, a micro, a U4.6k, a FS7, an A7s, blah blah, this camera feels great in your hand. The screen is amazing. The ergonomics work well for you, has all the other features you don't need to spend extra money and hang a monitor off of to get, and no, I have yet to rig mine. I put a neck strap on it like a DSLR, because I'm not quite sure if any of the gimbals are worth it, currently, and although I like the way the tilta cage looks, it isn't available yet. This camera is anything but goofy, man. Give it a shot. Maybe you'll change you mind. 

[Shirozina]

9 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Oh I am not saying the older ones have a look everyone likes. I really like it. But yeah it is Hard to get a cleaner look from the old ones, and that is what is in now. I can see why you went that way. And true the GH5s is more expensive, but you don't have to buy all the stuff to add to it like you do the PK4, so it is really not much more money in the long run. And V90 cards are cheaper than CFast cards, although they aren't giving away either one of them away!

There's not much stuff you need to buy. You don't need C-FAST as an ext 1tb drive is less than £200 and give you nearly 3 hours of 4k 24p - how much is 3 hrs of V90 cards ??? An external battery sled for a Sony NP-F is £30 and many already have these batteries. Anything else is not essential and is an optional add on for any camera. Did I not mention that you also get a free copy of Resolve studio with the P4k? :). You could add a gimbal or external recorder/monitor to a P4k and still come in cheaper than a GH5s. Now I'm not saying the Gh5s isn't a good camera and in some ways may be better for some users but it's not at all in the same price range.

[Kisaha]

I have used this camera, and I believe it to be a tremendous value! Maybe the most out of a camera, ever.

Consider it as a 5" raw recorder with a free camera on top!

It is truly outstanding, however you see it.

I do not like the form factor either though, a Canon XC has a brilliant design.

[Turboguard]

@webrunner5 please stop reading B&H and Amazon reviews and then come here speaking like you have first hand expertise with the technology. It’s hysterical. 

I don’t know why you’re saying not enough footage is being provided when there’s tons of P4K footage up online. You’re also comparing it to a camera (OG Pocket) that’s been out way longer therefor lots of more footage too find. 

I will tell you that my reason to not upload a lot is because I’ve used the P4K for work, work that I’m not allowed to show because companies own the footage and it takes a while before it becomes uploaded to the public. Also, owning both the OG and P4K I will tell you, working with both then seeing the results are night and day. I save so much time getting the image that I want with the P4K while I would spend hours adjusting the OG pockets footage before sending it off to client. This goes with handling and shooting with the two cameras as well.

I think what you’re missing is that ALL footage you see has been manipulated (and a lot of these people shooting and grading are NOT professionals). Also, I don’t think a lot of people are trying to get the P4K to look like the OG, it’s another market out there today and NO companies would come to you and ask for the “look” of the OG. No one would pay money for it (I’m not talking indie filmmakers here but corporate). 

Again, someone wrote above the authority to speak out, and I agree, like intrigue me please, show me ONE thing you’ve done that could change my mind on that you actually know in practice what you’re talking about. I’ve never seen anything you’ve shot. Why in the world do you think anyone cares that you wanna buy a GH5s?

[webrunner5]

Well show me YOUR f ing footage if it is so great! Talk is cheap. And I never said you can't get great footage out of the PK4. I just said it is not going to look like the old BM stuff, and it doesn't, and really can't unless you burst your ass trying to do it.  I have said the new look is in and it is not going away like it or not. You must have a reading deficiency if you haven't taken that away from my comments for months on here.

Mercer and I am about the Only 2 people on here that seem to give a crap about the old look. And there is nothing wrong with that. If you want the new look it is out there in spades. Nearly every camera new now has that look. And the PK4 has the new look, no surprise with the sensor it is using..

 

[Anaconda_]

Please don't feed the troll.

[Shirozina]

35 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Well show me YOUR f ing footage if it is so great! Talk is cheap. And I never said you can't get great footage out of the PK4. I just said it is not going to look like the old BM stuff, and it doesn't, and really can't unless you burst your ass trying to do it.  I have said the new look is in and it is not going away like it or not. You must have a reading deficiency if you haven't taken that away from my comments for months on here.

Mercer and I am about the Only 2 people on here that seem to give a crap about the old look. And there is nothing wrong with that. If you want the new look it is out there in spades. Nearly every camera new now has that look. And the PK4 has the new look, no surprise with the sensor it is 

Why so angry about camera you don't own and don't intend to own ?

[Turboguard]

45 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Well show me YOUR f ing footage if it is so great! Talk is cheap. And I never said you can't get great footage out of the PK4. I just said it is not going to look like the old BM stuff, and it doesn't, and really can't unless you burst your ass trying to do it.  I have said the new look is in and it is not going away like it or not. You must have a reading deficiency if you haven't taken that away from my comments for months on here.

Mercer and I am about the Only 2 people on here that seem to give a crap about the old look. And there is nothing wrong with that. If you want the new look it is out there in spades. Nearly every camera new now has that look. And the PK4 has the new look, no surprise with the sensor it is using..

 

I’ve been posting my work in the “share your footage” thread. You can find some in there and for a fact you did comment on my photography with the Pocket when I posted a website for my work a couple of months ago. 

 

Anyway, I’m not talking about A look, as in ONE look. The beauty of higher bitrate, better codec/raw camera is that you can get unlimited looks. I assure you 99% of the “OG” look you’re talking about is hiding beneath multiple layers of color grading, added noise and compression. Just for fun, I’m going to shoot with both my OG and P4K this weekend and then match the footage and post it here to see if you can tell what’s what. Sounds good?

[JordanWright]

Personally I think the P4K and a vintage lens is a winning combo. 

[webrunner5]

2 minutes ago, JordanWright said:

Personally I think the P4K and a vintage lens is a winning combo. 

I am not going to deny that. It is just not a camera I want to buy. Simple as that. I don't like Any of the new cameras looks wise.

[Kisaha]

Seriously guys, it is not a big deal, he just doesn't like the camera. @webrunner5 is here for a long time now, definitely not a troll, just has his beliefs and he stays with them.

Don't we all?

Everything's going to be fine in the end (or not!) !!

Just to mention a few negatives to make Don feel better.

1. The plasticky construction doesn't influence much confidence. It may be psychological, but it is a fact.

2. I didn't like the buttons, wheels. ? terrible..

3. The form factor is "weird" at least. I would prefer something closer to Canon XC. Not convinient at all for - compact - gimbal use.

4. It was scary to do not know what voltage you have really left on your batteries.

5. Batteries!

6. I am trying to downplay it a bit, but I would love the screen to have a hinge, like the newer cameras have (I do not like fully articulated ones, just the up and down kind!). The size and excellent GUI compensates a little, but still..

[Emanuel]

Don is one of my/our good fellows here. Just stubborn like hell : D He never shot with one or he would arrive to the same conclusion as I've arrived.

Today as for instance. I brought with me literally inside my pocket my GX80 for a family's celebration in a restaurant. Great monochrome output BTW. When arrived to home for the second part, I immediately changed for my fav cam ever: the new P4K. I completely missed how ease is to set up and shoot. A pleasure to be with. The more I shoot the more I regret to not have it a few years earlier. It is a perfect device to me and definitely to everyone who starts shooting with one.

@webrunner5 dare yourself to buy one mate and you'll never desire to replace it.

Mark my words : -)

4592 x 2584 JPEG shot on GX80

1920 x 1080 grab from ProRes PXY shot on P4K 25fps aka 25p

Both straight out of the camera with zero grading.

Still room for any doubts?

 

When you come from an intuitive menu like the P4K is to a much complicated BORING menu of these small digital devices you promise to yourself to never underestimate these Aussie goodfellas... LOL

[Mr. Freeze]

14 hours ago, JordanWright said:

Personally I think the P4K and a vintage lens is a winning combo. 

Or some of the Rokinon/Samyang Cine-Lenes.

I like the look my Sigma ART Lenses create with the Pocket4K, but if you want a more vintage look, older manual Lenses are a great option.

[Emanuel]

11 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Seriously guys, it is not a big deal, he just doesn't like the camera. @webrunner5 is here for a long time now, definitely not a troll, just has his beliefs and he stays with them.

Don't we all?

Everything's going to be fine in the end (or not!) !!

Just to mention a few negatives to make Don feel better.

1. The plasticky construction doesn't influence much confidence. It may be psychological, but it is a fact.

2. I didn't like the buttons, wheels. ? terrible..

3. The form factor is "weird" at least. I would prefer something closer to Canon XC. Not convinient at all for - compact - gimbal use.

4. It was scary to do not know what voltage you have really left on your batteries.

5. Batteries!

6. I am trying to downplay it a bit, but I would love the screen to have a hinge, like the newer cameras have (I do not like fully articulated ones, just the up and down kind!). The size and excellent GUI compensates a little, but still..

I surely share some viewpoints with you.

The buttons and wheels are intimidating... LOL I even avoid them going with the touchscreen commands as much as I can, keeping them as new as possible : D

Even though not as far as form factor concerns.

It is unfair to infer they didn't give their best to design the best hybrid motion picture camera that's what this P4K is.

Seems a DSLR with the mirrorless weight.

Something RED hasn't offered to us with their DSMC system. No matter their good intentions.

 

What's exactly the beef here?

We have an adage which says the issue is where? Trousers or arse?!

I told you there is at least one gimbal manufacturer who is able to let you have 1.2 kg of gear to capably stabilize the best form factor out there.

BTW I've always dreamed to shoot perfect motion holding a film stills camera in hands instead. That's what I feel with this tool.

No other camera has succeeded before. Either 5D II/III/IV (with the exception of ML & 1DC maybe but at expense of how unreliable a hack may end to be or double of the weight and what price when released for the 2nd case) or MFT / APS-C / the most recent FF series by other major players have failed to give you such combo IMO. Without mention the price target ; )

[Shirozina]

11 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Seriously guys, it is not a big deal, he just doesn't like the camera. @webrunner5 is here for a long time now, definitely not a troll, just has his beliefs and he stays with them.

Don't we all?

Everything's going to be fine in the end (or not!) !!

Just to mention a few negatives to make Don feel better.

1. The plasticky construction doesn't influence much confidence. It may be psychological, but it is a fact.

2. I didn't like the buttons, wheels. ? terrible..

3. The form factor is "weird" at least. I would prefer something closer to Canon XC. Not convinient at all for - compact - gimbal use.

4. It was scary to do not know what voltage you have really left on your batteries.

5. Batteries!

6. I am trying to downplay it a bit, but I would love the screen to have a hinge, like the newer cameras have (I do not like fully articulated ones, just the up and down kind!). The size and excellent GUI compensates a little, but still..

I'd have to disagree  

Construction is fine for a camera at this price level. 

Absolutely love the control layout which is simply the best and most intuitive I have ever used.

Form factor is great and fits on my Ronin-s without a problem and quite how you would fit a 5" screen into an XC10 style body is beyond me - really? As others have said it's form factor is decided by one of it's greatest features which is  5" screen

I can see the voltage fine in my batteries both internal and external.

Yes it needs batteries and a lot of batteries if you are going to drive a bright 5" screen. What do you suggest as an alternative - bigger batteries so you get an even bigger camera or a smaller screen?

A hinged screen would I agree be nice but at what cost in size and price? Until someone does a teardown and we can see the cooling system which may well be for the screen this may be an impossibility without a significant cost and size increase.

[Kisaha]

18 minutes ago, Shirozina said:

I'd have to disagree  

Construction is fine for a camera at this price level. 

Absolutely love the control layout which is simply the best and most intuitive I have ever used.

Form factor is great and fits on my Ronin-s without a problem and quite how you would fit a 5" screen into an XC10 style body is beyond me - really? As others have said it's form factor is decided by one of it's greatest features which is  5" screen

I can see the voltage fine in my batteries both internal and external.

Yes it needs batteries and a lot of batteries if you are going to drive a bright 5" screen. What do you suggest as an alternative - bigger batteries so you get an even bigger camera or a smaller screen?

A hinged screen would I agree be nice but at what cost in size and price? Until someone does a teardown and we can see the cooling system which may well be for the screen this may be an impossibility without a significant cost and size increase.

I was trying to be harsh with the camera.

If I am going to use it I will put F batteries on this one. Canon batteries are not practical for me. It could be possible to offer something like the Tilta grip in-camera (in the right grip).

As of the 5" screen, the C200/C300 touch screen is 4" and costs 680$€£. That would be perfect also.

The cooling system plays a very important role when you are shooting raw and prores in camera.

The Tilta grip with the F battery, wheel for focusing and the Samsung SSD is an excellent solution, but then it widens the camera quite a lot.

I am expecting my Ronin S today!