Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[drm]

10 minutes ago, AlexTrinder96 said:

Looks like Metabones will be releasing new speedboosters, specifically for the pocket 4k.

 

There will be new Pocket 4k Speed Boosters® with new optics specifically optimized for the unique characteristics of the new Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K. We will disclose details in a separate announcement. Each Speed Booster® is designed specifically for the filter stack of the sensor. The existing Speed Booster® XL 0.64x and Speed Booster® ULTRA 0.71x have excellent optical properties on JVC, Olympus and Panasonic cameras but the forthcoming Pocket 4K Speed Boosters will work only on Blackmagic cameras.

 

Looks like they've gone back on what they originally said regarding  specific adapters for the camera... 

https://www.metabones.com/article/of/BlackmagicPocketCinemaCamera_4K?fbclid=IwAR32Ck9ztExd8rXzKVwiRe0kaBuLSOY8sb9yIPHMY8D6hftGCWbgxQf26zY

I am really curious what multiplier factor they will use for the new Metabones that they release specifically for the PCC4K. The 0.71x that I use gives you roughly a Super35 look, depending upon the camera. I suspect that they will go for something between the two existing Speedboosters (0.64x - 0.71x).

I am not thrilled about dropping another $659 on another Speedbooster, but I will purchase when it is announced  

[MeanRevert]

On the subject of speedboosters, if I wanted to go with Viltrox and the Sigma 18-35mm Art lens, would this be the correct one?

https://amazon.com/gp/product/B072XF4L4J

There's no autofocus with these, right?

Thinking about whether I should try this instead of the Lumix 12-35mm. Any input appreciated.

[Kisaha]

Oof..

What are the issues with the XL and Ultra then?

It is certainly annoying that we will have to buy additional adapters. It also raises the P4K "investment".

[Anaconda_]

10 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Oof..

What are the issues with the XL and Ultra then?

It is certainly annoying that we will have to buy additional adapters. It also raises the P4K "investment".

Just because they make a product doesn’t mean you have to buy it. If you’re not seeing any issues with the current adapters, don’t bother buying new ones.

for me, the Viltrox EFM2 works perfect. No AF, but I don’t want or need it on this camera anyway. 

i know that’s not the case for everyone, but if you do need AF, metabones have an update to make it work.

[drm]

4 hours ago, MeanRevert said:

On the subject of speedboosters, if I wanted to go with Viltrox and the Sigma 18-35mm Art lens, would this be the correct one?

https://amazon.com/gp/product/B072XF4L4J

There's no autofocus with these, right?

Thinking about whether I should try this instead of the Lumix 12-35mm. Any input appreciated.

The Viltrox adapter doesn't currently allow AF with any lens, including the Sigma 18-35. Although, perhaps they will add it via firmware update like Metabones just did.

The 12-35 f/2.8 is a great lens. I have a couple of them. But, the Sigma + Speed Booster will be much better in low light. That combo is ~ f/1.2 but has less range. The Sigma combo is roughly ~13-25. The 12-35 has IS and focuses *way* faster than the Sigma, just FYI.

[JordanWright]

48 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Oof..

What are the issues with the XL and Ultra then?

It is certainly annoying that we will have to buy additional adapters. It also raises the P4K "investment".

XL works perfectly well, performs exactly the same is it did on the GH5 

[drm]

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

Oof..

What are the issues with the XL and Ultra then?

It is certainly annoying that we will have to buy additional adapters. It also raises the P4K "investment".

The 0.64X XL and the 0.71X Ultra work fine on the P4K. I have not had a single issue with my Ultra (0.71X) on the P4K (or my GH5/GH5s cameras) 

I think that Metabones is saying that they could provide a better experience on the P4K by making a specific adapter for that platform. Right now, we have to decide between the 0.71X (like I have) or the 0.64X, which can cause vignetting with some lenses. I am speculating that they will make a new adapter wider than the Ultra, but not quite as wide as the XL. They did mention that the P4K can't provide enough power for some lenses, so perhaps they will address that issue as well.

As a politician would say: "if you like your XL or Ultra, you can keep your XL or Ultra"  

[leslie]

10 hours ago, AlexTrinder96 said:

Looks like Metabones will be releasing new speedboosters, specifically for the pocket 4k.

 

There will be new Pocket 4k Speed Boosters® with new optics specifically optimized for the unique characteristics of the new Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K. We will disclose details in a separate announcement. Each Speed Booster® is designed specifically for the filter stack of the sensor. The existing Speed Booster® XL 0.64x and Speed Booster® ULTRA 0.71x have excellent optical properties on JVC, Olympus and Panasonic cameras but the forthcoming Pocket 4K Speed Boosters will work only on Blackmagic cameras.

 

Looks like they've gone back on what they originally said regarding  specific adapters for the camera... 

https://www.metabones.com/article/of/BlackmagicPocketCinemaCamera_4K?fbclid=IwAR32Ck9ztExd8rXzKVwiRe0kaBuLSOY8sb9yIPHMY8D6hftGCWbgxQf26zY

sounds like a clever marketing ploy, they mention only the filter stack of the sensor,  new optics and compatibility only with the bmp4k. I guess somewhere, there is a room filled, with a bunch of men in little white coats they need to feed. With a new camera on the scene there is no better way of generating a new niche market than preying on peoples perceived weaknesses of a particular design. we already know that the  XL 0.64x,  0.71x   work fine on the bmp4k. Seems to me their pushing the exclusivity thing abit ( you have the best new 4k camera now go buy the best new 4k speed booster that incidentally only works on the bmp4k. because you owe it to yourself,  blah blah blah )

i have heard that some earlier bm cameras had an issue with filter stack thickness, but i would think bm would have sorted it out by now, if they hadn't, we would have heard of it by now on the forums. if the filter stack is an issue with the XL 0.64x or the ULTRA 0.71x why isn't an issue with any  lenses we attach to the front of the camera ?  (maybe my logic is flawed if i'm wrong feel free to enlighten me ) i think metabones is grasping at straws by bringing that up.  Percentage wise, how much better can it be ?  I think the bmp4k has slightly bigger sensor from the original if i remember the stats correctly (which  is where the optimized optics come in i presume ) perhaps they have added some contacts for added functionality with the bmp4k or an electronic nd filter but thats some pretty wild speculation on my part. I don't have a speed booster yet so  be interesting to see how things develop. if the new speed booster is 10%, 20% better i'll buy one. Otherwise i'll probably buy a  cheap XL 0.64x,  0.71x that's recently found its way to ebay ?

[xzobinx]

20 minutes ago, leslie said:

sounds like a clever marketing ploy, they mention only the filter stack of the sensor,  new optics and compatibility only with the bmp4k. I guess somewhere, there is a room filled, with a bunch of men in little white coats they need to feed. With a new camera on the scene there is no better way of generating a new niche market than preying on peoples perceived weaknesses of a particular design. we already know that the  XL 0.64x,  0.71x   work fine on the bmp4k. Seems to me their pushing the exclusivity thing abit ( you have the best new 4k camera now go buy the best new 4k speed booster that incidentally only works on the bmp4k. because you owe it to yourself,  blah blah blah )

i have heard that some earlier bm cameras had an issue with filter stack thickness, but i would think bm would have sorted it out by now, if they hadn't, we would have heard of it by now on the forums. if the filter stack is an issue with the XL 0.64x or the ULTRA 0.71x why isn't an issue with any  lenses we attach to the front of the camera ?  (maybe my logic is flawed if i'm wrong feel free to enlighten me ) i think metabones is grasping at straws by bringing that up.  Percentage wise, how much better can it be ?  I think the bmp4k has slightly bigger sensor from the original if i remember the stats correctly (which  is where the optimized optics come in i presume ) perhaps they have added some contacts for added functionality with the bmp4k or an electronic nd filter but thats some pretty wild speculation on my part. I don't have a speed booster yet so  be interesting to see how things develop. if the new speed booster is 10%, 20% better i'll buy one. Otherwise i'll probably buy a  cheap XL 0.64x,  0.71x that's recently found its way to ebay ?

they might add the locking mechanism from cine series since bmp4k is a proper cinema cam. 

[stefanocps]

Hello i have the possibility to get a bpcc4 quick. I never look too much at this camera because of long waiting list and because it seemed a camera that would require too many accessories, so i was going to xt3 or gh5. Now with this chance i need to decide quick. I ask you what do i need to have, other than the camera, to be able to work in a kind of documentary style, run and gun and similar battery,card,rig..what is really needed?

For better understanding: a proper videocamera would be my first choice for quick possibility to operate. But as you know, videocamera would give much less in term of quality image and creativity...but my approach, for my need, would be the one i would have with a proper videocamera (i mean sony a700, panasnic hcx1 and so on..)

thanks

[Mattias Burling]

The waiting list for new orders here is only one week, so stocks around the world will probably be filled soon. No need to rush the decision imo.

[stefanocps]

1 minute ago, Mattias Burling said:

The waiting list for new orders here is only one week, so stocks around the world will probably be filled soon. No need to rush the decision imo.

here it is not easy,  normally takes weeks, unnambered weeks

I found a place that have  a couple available

Anyway rush or not, those are my doubt when thinking to bmpcc, which looks great for images but less for ease of usability

[leslie]

1 hour ago, stefanocps said:

here it is not easy,  normally takes weeks, unnambered weeks

I found a place that have  a couple available

Anyway rush or not, those are my doubt when thinking to bmpcc, which looks great for images but less for ease of usability

 i have no experience with the previous camera or any video camera actually. The bmp4k is my first video camera. I think you would find that the ui is quite easy to use and navigate around with. I have had it a week or so now and have been a bit sporadic about using it. I have probably flattened the battery twice which is an indication of how much time i have spent with it. I have had the chance to play with again this afternoon and i now begin to know which buttons are where and what they do. it's simply a matter of  using it and familiarizing yourself with it . Resolve on the other hand scares me ?  and i'm going to have to make a dedicated effort there, but its probably more in my mind than anything. i also have been using a cheap toshiba sd card it will shoot prores hd without issues so if you have some cards already you can probably use them for hd. If you want higher resolution then you would have to spring for faster cards or a samsung t5 ssd. For run and gun or rigging i cant help you there no experience whatsoever. searching eoshd will help you no doubt.  There is a thread for bmp4k power solutions on eoshd.   I don't regret buying it.

[MeanRevert]

18 hours ago, drm said:

The Viltrox adapter doesn't currently allow AF with any lens, including the Sigma 18-35. Although, perhaps they will add it via firmware update like Metabones just did.

The 12-35 f/2.8 is a great lens. I have a couple of them. But, the Sigma + Speed Booster will be much better in low light. That combo is ~ f/1.2 but has less range. The Sigma combo is roughly ~13-25. The 12-35 has IS and focuses *way* faster than the Sigma, just FYI.

Appreciate the insight.  I think I'll stick with the 12-35mm and run it with a Black Mist Pro Filter to take off some of the hard edge.

[kye]

I'd suggest waiting to see how it performs before judging such a product.  It might be one of those "I thought the normal ones were good, but...." situations.

and in terms of buying another adapter, just go and look at the price of the alternative RAW shooting cameras - that should calm you down a little

[Kisaha]

19 hours ago, drm said:

But, the Sigma + Speed Booster will be much better in low light. That combo is ~ f/1.2 but has less range. The Sigma combo is roughly ~13-25.

Isn't it focal length X sensor crop factor X speedbooster's crop factor? It should be smthing like 23-45mm for the Ultra.

For run and gun the 12-100mm Olympus is unbeatable. A true workhorse lens.

[Papiskokuji]

I shot a bit more using braw these last days. I still have mixed feelings for it. I like the shadow roll off better in braw. I always thought the shadows were too crushed in cdng. I also like the choice of color space (don't know why you can't chose rec2020 with cdng for instance...), it gives me better colors, a less aggressiv red especially. But the two main caviats are the possible increase of moire and I recently noticed some minor macro blocking noise. The noise in braw is less pleasant, sadly. And that's a big deal (at least to me), it is what differs raw from compressed codec footage. That's the whole point of having raw. I know, in the end it's not crucial, but still... I think calling braw a raw format is a bit of a stretch. Don't get me wrong, the image is still gorgeous, it is better than any mirrorless camera and I can still add noise/grain in post. I also like the braw control panel.

It's such a pity they had to remove cdng, and we can't have both on the same firmware. Also when you shoot with Constant Quality, the estimated time left on the card varies widely from a take to another ! It started with 38 min available. I shot one take, it gave me 56 min ! And then another one, then I got 28 min left ! hehe

I'll give braw one more chance before rolling back to firmware 6.1

[drm]

12 hours ago, stefanocps said:

Hello i have the possibility to get a bpcc4 quick. I never look too much at this camera because of long waiting list and because it seemed a camera that would require too many accessories, so i was going to xt3 or gh5. Now with this chance i need to decide quick. I ask you what do i need to have, other than the camera, to be able to work in a kind of documentary style, run and gun and similar battery,card,rig..what is really needed?

For better understanding: a proper videocamera would be my first choice for quick possibility to operate. But as you know, videocamera would give much less in term of quality image and creativity...but my approach, for my need, would be the one i would have with a proper videocamera (i mean sony a700, panasnic hcx1 and so on..)

thanks

@stefanocps I have three of the BMPCC4K cameras and have used them extensively. You need two main things:

1. Power: either lots of LPE6 batteries or an external v-mount or Sony style NP battery with sled.
2. Storage: very fast SD cards, expensive CFast cards, or a Samsung T5 type drive.

I also suggest that you get a cage to mount accessories (but this isn't required). I use the Smallrig and it works well.

Best of luck on your purchase.

[drm]

6 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Isn't it focal length X sensor crop factor X speedbooster's crop factor? It should be smthing like 23-45mm for the Ultra.

For run and gun the 12-100mm Olympus is unbeatable. A true workhorse lens.

I love the Olympus 12-100 f/4. It is on one of my cameras almost always. I would like it even more if I could get that kind of range in a f/2.8, but oh well

I was sharing the specs for the 18-35 + Speedbooster in terms equivalent to the Panasonic 12-35 lens, not "full frame" equivalent. A new person might not be familiar with the 35mm equivalent conversion specs. Also, to me, quoting everything in 35mm equivalent specs is just silly when we were only talking about the m4/3 format cameras. It isn't like the video world records most everything in 35mm format (although some of that is changing now). I could see it if everyone converted the different formats to Super 35, but 35mm? That wasn't even really a thing until the Canon 5D Mark II a few years back. Of course, I also think that calling 35mm "full frame" is silly too as there are many cameras (e.g. medium format) that use much larger sensors. So, what are they? "Mega Frame"?

 

[xzobinx]

is there anyone use his/her bm for street "photography" ? Since I don't want to carry another camera, I shoot quite a bit at low shutter angle and just grab still frame from it. The resolution works quite well for me since instagram is my main publishing platform

https://www.instagram.com/harrykise/