Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[HockeyFan12]

27 minutes ago, CaptainHook said:

There was no change in "highlights" to our log curves or otherwise. The previous manual dynamic range chart was incorrect, and was corrected.

That's good to know. Regardless, +5.5 at base is very competitive. Similar to the 4.6k, no? 

I believe Foveon sensors have a non-linear rolloff, but point taken. I think the complicating factor is with A7S SLOG2 or something you have chroma clipping and sharpening that can muddy up the highlights in a way where they're difficult to recover aesthetically because the channel data is clipped in raster even if the signal wasn't in raw:

https://www.liftgammagain.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-dreaded-clipped-channels-on-sony-blue-footage.9970/

But I suppose this isn't an issue with Red, Alexa, Black Magic, etc. whether in raw or ProRes.

That said, there must also be something to the highlight recovery algorithm? I do wish Black Magic would implement this for cameras other than its own. My C200 raw footage could benefit from it for sure based on how effective it seems to be with 4.6k footage, but maybe that's not possible.

Just bought a Resolve license so you're getting my money either way.

[MeanRevert]

Always good info from Captain Hook. An asset to this forum.

[CaptainHook]

56 minutes ago, HockeyFan12 said:

That said, there must also be something to the highlight recovery algorithm?

It reconstructs data in clipped channels from non-clipped channels. i.e Will do nothing if all channels are clipped. And the reconstructed data is generally absent of colour information since it's not known what was missing in the clipped data, and just heads to the white point.

I'm not sure what's available with the C200 rawlite files as I'm not in the Resolve team so my "inside" knowledge only surrounds our cameras and what we provide to the Resolve team (Blackmagic RAW is developed in the camera team).

I do know for instance though the C300 mk2 raw output over SDI has white balance information "baked in", which means all 3 channels are clipped (to avoid non-white highlights) so highlight recovery would not be possible on such data.

[HockeyFan12]

11 minutes ago, CaptainHook said:

It reconstructs data in clipped channels from non-clipped channels. i.e Will do nothing if all channels are clipped. And the reconstructed data is generally absent of colour information since it's not known what was missing in the clipped data, and just heads to the white point.

I'm not sure what's available with the C200 rawlite files as I'm not in the Resolve team so my "inside" knowledge only surrounds our cameras and what we provide to the Resolve team (Blackmagic RAW is developed in the camera team).

I do know for instance though the C300 mk2 raw output over SDI has white balance information "baked in", which means all 3 channels are clipped (to avoid non-white highlights) so highlight recovery would not be possible on such data.

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I suspect the C200 also bakes in white balance, but could be wrong. Weird things happen when you change white balance while rolling.

[tonysss]

 

[Anaconda_]

I feel like this kind of flew under the radar, but BRAW is now Premiere compatible on Mac and Windows with the Autokroma plug-in. Shame Adobe haven't supported it natively for their subscribers and we have to pay extra for it. Booo Adobe, boo!

https://autokroma.com/  

[Emanuel]

9 hours ago, tonysss said:

 

In this test I put side by side the original BMPCC and the new BMPCC4K. I used a Canon FD 24mm f/2.8 with a Canon FD Speedbooster and a variable Tiffen ND on both cameras. I shot CDNG 1080, 24p on the BMPCC (sharpness set to 0) and Blackmagic RAW 8:1 4K, 24p on the BMPCC4K. I edited and exported in a 4K timeline, so the original Pocket footage was upscaled. For the grading I used the Buttery Natural Rec709 LUT on both camera with some basic adjustments like contrast, tint and WB. Not a lot of people know, but if you shoot RAW on the original BMPCC, you have the option to switch from color science v1 to v4 in the RAW settings in DaVinci Resolve and that's exactly what I did before applying the LUT. Overall the two cameras are extremely close (there are differences in contrast, saturation and tint, but it's normal since they are two different sensors). In this video I matched them pretty well, but I could definitely see why some people (included me) believe that the original Pocket has something that is definitely missing in the BMPCC4K. I'm not entirely sure what it is, but the BMPCC has a more organic look and texture that reminds me a lot about the Alexa. Also, in the BMPCC4K, the skin tones tend to lean toward brown in some situations (the Natural Rec709 fixes in part this problem) and sometimes it's pretty annoying, where the original Pocket renders skin tones way better and in a more natural way. Still, the two cameras are incredibly close and they could definitely be used together in a variety of situations and of course the BMPCC4K is a way more usable, reliable and professional camera than the original one. Again, I really missed that filmic look and I think I'm gonna buy a BMPCC in the near future to use as a second camera and to shoot some more personal and cinematic projects. Finally, as you can see, it's very hard to tell the difference between a 4K camera and a good 1080 upscaled. Which is why I don't think resolution matters when it comes to image quality and that's why people have been shooting feature films on a 2K Arri Alexa.

~ Matteo Bertoli

[BTM_Pix]

Small Bluetooth remote Record/Stop button controller with screen to provide real time status from camera of :

• Aperture
• Shutter Angle
• ISO
• Temperature
• Tint

Integral bright LED illuminates to show record status.

Kickstarter in August.

Price will be €60

Production version will not be orange.

 

[Emanuel]

Hey ho Silver! : -)

[kye]

8 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Production version will not be orange.

Considering how small it is and how many matt-black technical things are in a camera bag, maybe it should be orange  

Great stuff!

[MeanRevert]

BTM, how is the device powered? And can this be worn on person like a watch? 

[Snowfun]

The Blackmagic logo includes orange so it would look particularly relevant. Especially in aluminium rather than plastic.

Too much similarity to a Quality Street will however end in disaster.

[BTM_Pix]

9 hours ago, MeanRevert said:

BTM, how is the device powered? 

Internal battery that is rechargeable by USB. 

Can also be powered by USB whilst charging.

9 hours ago, MeanRevert said:

And can this be worn on person like a watch? 

Don't be ridiculous.....

Of course it can  

Screen is bright daylight viewable as well.

Unlike the camera itself  

5 hours ago, Snowfun said:

The Blackmagic logo includes orange so it would look particularly relevant. Especially in aluminium rather than plastic.

Yeah but their Orange is subtle.

This one is more Emergency Oh My God Press That To Set The Alarm Off type of an Orange.

I have a version that runs Leica cameras so that one will be in aluminium. And snakeskin. 

5 hours ago, Snowfun said:

Too much similarity to a Quality Street will however end in disaster.

There's seldom any similarity to anything remotely related to quality with anything I make so we are safe there !

 

 

NB For our American readers, Quality Street is the UK equivalent of your Sesame Street and features characters such as The Green Triangle and The Purple One.

[MeanRevert]

You are ahead of your time, my friend! 

I need this in my life. 

[leslie]

Just now, BTM_Pix said:

Internal battery that is rechargeable by USB. 

Can also be powered by USB whilst charging.

Don't be ridiculous.....

Of course it can  

Screen is bright daylight viewable as well.

Unlike the camera itself  

Yeah but their Orange is subtle.

This one is more Emergency Oh My God Press That To Set The Alarm Off type of an Orange.

I have a version that runs Leica cameras so that one will be in aluminium. And snakeskin. 

There's seldom any similarity to anything remotely related to quality with anything I make so we are safe there !

 

 

NB For our American readers, Quality Street is the UK equivalent of your Sesame Street and features characters such as The Green Triangle and The Purple One.

so the Bermuda triangle is the one that got away ?

[Kisaha]

2 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

 

You are pushing me hard towards the P4K! If your e-ND works then I am sold. Internal ND is the one feature I need more than anything else in the video world, but If I can make or buy one such yours, then it would do..

Maybe a device controlling both would be the best..

Where is that electric blue? I missed that!

Now the camera can be truly a vloggers dream!

[BTM_Pix]

Just now, leslie said:

so the Bermuda triangle is the one that got away ?

No, you're thinking of Hardy Kruger.

[BTM_Pix]

4 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

You are pushing me hard towards the P4K! If your e-ND works then I am sold. Internal ND is the one feature I need more than anything else in the video world, but If I can make or buy one such yours, then it would do..

Maybe a device controlling both would be the best..

Where is that electric blue? I missed that!

I'm still trying to find a supplier for the e-ND that can make a larger piece so slightly back burnered at the moment while I concentrate on other things.

The electronic part does work in concert with my other controllers such as this one (and the app as well actually) so when it happens it will be integrated.

Currently, the size of the glass that I have is only really suitable for in mount versions, which is a bit of an issue with cameras such as the P4K which relies on speed boosters.

Anyway, I've just done a quick and dirty pic (literally when you see the finger prints all over the glass) to illustrate what the build along would have been with the smaller piece. 

I used the MicroBit as the controller (in an electric blue DIY case obviously) as its cheap and easy to program for everyone (although I would obviously provide the source code) so at its very, very basic component level this is how it works and you could finesse it from there in terms of housing etc. and not using croc cables to connect it!

In this version you just use the two buttons to increment and decrement the ND level as seen here at 0%, 50% and 90% reduction although you can scale it anyway you want.

Another advantage of the MicroBit is that it has a very simple Bluetooth link function so you can use a second one to remote control it.

When I source the bigger piece, I'll put it up properly but thought it might be interesting to you in terms of how it works as it will be exactly the same simple principle but bigger!

I'm actually pondering a mechanical version of it at this point though....

1 hour ago, MeanRevert said:

You are ahead of your time, my friend! 

As a man who's latest phone purchase was a Blackberry I'm not sure ahead of my time is that accurate

1 hour ago, MeanRevert said:

I need this in my life. 

Wait till you see what this one does.....

[Andrew Reid]

On 7/2/2018 at 10:30 PM, John Brawley said:

It's never going to happen.

Sony won't allow it.  They will never allow it.

Kinefinity can say "future adaptors" all they like.  Sony run a closed eco-system.  This is their MO.

Sony own the mount.  No other camera other than one made by Sony will have a native E mount.

Lens adapters to Sony e-mount already exist. A Kinefinity mount can just be an adapter.

Reverse engineering is entirely legal too.

16 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I'm still trying to find a supplier for the e-ND that can make a larger piece so slightly back burnered at the moment while I concentrate on other things.

The electronic part does work in concert with my other controllers such as this one (and the app as well actually) so when it happens it will be integrated.

Currently, the size of the glass that I have is only really suitable for in mount versions, which is a bit of an issue with cameras such as the P4K which relies on speed boosters.

Anyway, I've just done a quick and dirty pic (literally when you see the finger prints all over the glass) to illustrate what the build along would have been with the smaller piece. 

I used the MicroBit as the controller (in an electric blue DIY case obviously) as its cheap and easy to program for everyone (although I would obviously provide the source code) so at its very, very basic component level this is how it works and you could finesse it from there in terms of housing etc. and not using croc cables to connect it!

In this version you just use the two buttons to increment and decrement the ND level as seen here at 0%, 50% and 90% reduction although you can scale it anyway you want.

Another advantage of the MicroBit is that it has a very simple Bluetooth link function so you can use a second one to remote control it.

When I source the bigger piece, I'll put it up properly but thought it might be interesting to you in terms of how it works as it will be exactly the same simple principle but bigger!

I'm actually pondering a mechanical version of it at this point though....

The Holy Material EXISTS!!

Good luck with the project mate!

[thebrothersthre3]

Hope you can get this off the ground man. Definitely would be down if its in the sub $200 range.