Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[The ghost of squig]

I’ve always had this feeling that Blackmagic cameras are never quite finished, this isn’t a problem exclusive to Blackmagic, but it seems to be more prevalent with BMD. Being a small innovative company that caters to no-budget filmmakers, I can accept that BMD cameras are a bit rough around the edges, what I can’t accept is BMD keeping quiet about flaws and not fixing them in a timely manner.

Since the days of the D90 and 5DMk2, blue skies have been a go to for testing for codec flaws, when I get a new camera it’s one of the first tests I do. I noticed the Pocket 4K macroblocking on the first blue sky shot I took with it. If BMD think this flaw is acceptable then they should market it as the ‘Pocket Hobbyist Camera 4K’, or put a landscape with a ? symbol on the box, because it falls well short of the IQ expected of a cinema camera for landscape shots. I haven't noticed any codec issues shooting interiors, it doesn't appear to be a problem there, but I have hours of shots to edit and review.

BMD needs to think very carefully about how they respond to this issue, just a hint of bullshit or patronizing will not play well for them. Users need to be told exactly what the problem is, and what is going to be done to address it.

[alanpoiuyt]

First week with Resolve and BMPCC 4k. Lotsa blue skies in this edit and I'm not seeing any banding or microblocking shooting BRAW 8:1. Maybe a bit from YT compression but the QT is clean. Probably a little of FilmConvert could emulate that Cinema DNG look but haven't transferred that license over to Resolve yet.

 

[Emanuel]

1 hour ago, The ghost of squig said:

I’ve always had this feeling that Blackmagic cameras are never quite finished, this isn’t a problem exclusive to Blackmagic, but it seems to be more prevalent with BMD. Being a small innovative company that caters to no-budget filmmakers, I can accept that BMD cameras are a bit rough around the edges, what I can’t accept is BMD keeping quiet about flaws and not fixing them in a timely manner.

Since the days of the D90 and 5DMk2, blue skies have been a go to for testing for codec flaws, when I get a new camera it’s one of the first tests I do. I noticed the Pocket 4K macroblocking on the first blue sky shot I took with it. If BMD think this flaw is acceptable then they should market it as the ‘Pocket Hobbyist Camera 4K’, or put a landscape with a ? symbol on the box, because it falls well short of the IQ expected of a cinema camera for landscape shots. I haven't noticed any codec issues shooting interiors, it doesn't appear to be a problem there, but I have hours of shots to edit and review.

BMD needs to think very carefully about how they respond to this issue, just a hint of bullshit or patronizing will not play well for them. Users need to be told exactly what the problem is, and what is going to be done to address it.

I don't feel this with their cameras today. On the contrary, to be sincere. Aside these issues now reported.

But, some arrogance from their side is unbearable. This should not be tolerant by us as their supportive and cooperative clientele. Dictatorships simply don't bring any help.

Thanks for joining your voice : ) I am glad to see I am not the only one to notice and say it openly. I don't get the fanboy ostrich attitude.

E : -)

[MeanRevert]

54 minutes ago, alanpoiuyt said:

First week with Resolve and BMPCC 4k. Lotsa blue skies in this edit and I'm not seeing any banding or microblocking shooting BRAW 8:1. Maybe a bit from YT compression but the QT is clean. Probably a little of FilmConvert could emulate that Cinema DNG look but haven't transferred that license over to Resolve yet.

 

 

Looks great!  What lens did you use here?

[majoraxis]

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Does the firmware rollback if you have the old Cinema DNG version?

If it is the newer hardware version of Pocket 4k with the updated LCD panel, then it will not work with firmware older than 6.2.1, so you can't roll it back to get the Cinema DNG recording options.

Here's how you tell, if you purchased your Pocket 4K new and it came with 6.2.1 factory installed, then you can not roll it back to 6.1 and get the Cinema DNG recording options.  I tried it and it said something like your camera is up to date.

Pocket 4k v1 - Cinema DNA enabled firmware rollback is allowed if you have access to firmware 6.1 or older.

Pock 4k v2 - Cinema DNG recoding options are not included and it is not possible to roll back the firmware to get them.

[The ghost of squig]

24 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

I don't get the fanboy ostrich attitude.

E : -)

Happens every time. ? Why do think I didn't post about it when I discovered it on the 9th of June, I had a big job to prep for, I didn't have the time to open that can of worms.

[Emanuel]

1 hour ago, The ghost of squig said:

Happens every time. ? Why do think I didn't post about it when I discovered it on the 9th of June, I had a big job to prep for, I didn't have the time to open that can of worms.

Thank you man! Better later than never! LOL ; -)

BTW has anyone tried slimRAW on here? I guess it cannot mitigate the hassle but actually wonder what Mihail @cpc has to say on blueskies macroblocking topic?

[alanpoiuyt]

1 hour ago, MeanRevert said:

 

Looks great!  What lens did you use here?

Thanks - SLR Magic 8mm, Voigtlander 25mm f0.95, Sigma 18-35, Tamron FE 24-70 no speedbooster yet.

[Ed_David]

11 hours ago, alanpoiuyt said:

Thanks - SLR Magic 8mm, Voigtlander 25mm f0.95, Sigma 18-35, Tamron FE 24-70 no speedbooster yet.

from my quick usage of BRAW - I also didn't notice banding on 12:1 footage on ursa mini pro G1

[harry henry]

On 7/2/2019 at 11:49 AM, The ghost of squig said:

Happens every time. ? Why do think I didn't post about it when I discovered it on the 9th of June, I had a big job to prep for, I didn't have the time to open that can of worms.

So did you approach BMD in Port Melbourne, or post it on Black Magic official site? Grant Petty is one of the most honourable man on the planet. He'll replace or refund you if you're not happy with his product.

 

 

[harry henry]

On 7/2/2019 at 11:21 AM, Emanuel said:

I don't feel this with their cameras today. On the contrary, to be sincere. Aside these issues now reported.

But, some arrogance from their side is unbearable. This should not be tolerant by us as their supportive and cooperative clientele. Dictatorships simply don't bring any help.

Thanks for joining your voice : ) I am glad to see I am not the only one to notice and say it openly. I don't get the fanboy ostrich attitude.

E : -)

Any chance of seeing something  of what you've  shot over the years. My real name is Brian (harry henry) Heard and I post on Youtube. What's your real name? 

 

[The ghost of squig]

52 minutes ago, harry henry said:

So did you approach BMD in Port Melbourne, or post it on Black Magic official site? Grant Petty is one of the most honourable man on the planet. He'll replace or refund you if you're not happy with his product.

No I didn't, this thread is monitored by BMD staff, and there's a thread on this issue on the BMD forum. Grant strikes me as a good guy. I don't want a refund, the camera works very well in most situations, however this blue sky problem is not an issue with my other cameras, so it's something BMD needs to have a look at.

[Emanuel]

2 hours ago, harry henry said:

Any chance of seeing something  of what you've  shot over the years. My real name is Brian (harry henry) Heard and I post on Youtube. What's your real name? 

 

Emanuel is my real name. I am producer. You have a IMDb link in my signature where you can try to trace some of the work I've participated. If you're in Australia, I think you'll easily find a independent feature shot on NZ with a 5DII. The title is 'The Baldlands' and last time I checked, you could find it on YT too. BTW the film director and my partner in that production came to change and buy Blackmagic gear for his next film to follow a suggestion of mine. Still his current bet, I've heard from him. For the period along these last years, it is easy to search on google and find some other titles, mainly mere trailers for obvious copyright protection. With one or another exception, I guess. Also shot on Blackmagic cameras, one or another by my direct influence or decision. Not rarely against the primary wish or idea of the director or/and cinematographer. It happened! Before 2001, only TV, corporate and film school work as well a co-production multiple awarded in Venice shot in 35mm film, probably available via torrents or suchlike once it is already a twenty-year-old feature movie today. Even though, still referred as one of the most interesting movies of the Italian cinema of the last decades.

Personally, I don't currently have any YT channel.

 

1 hour ago, The ghost of squig said:

No I didn't, this thread is monitored by BMD staff (...)

I've emailed Grant Petty and a few people inside BMD to address it. For the content of Brian's post, I'd even dare to bet you're just talking with someone insider now... LOL ; -)

[The ghost of squig]

17 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

I've emailed Grant Petty and a few people inside BMD to address it. For the content of Brian's post, I'd even dare to bet you're just talking with someone insider now... LOL ; -)

I'm not a hater, I noticed the issue a month ago and I didn't say anything publicly because I didn't have the time to do more tests at that time. It wasn't until after I saw the thread on the BMD forum that I posted my tests. As soon as there's a blue sky I'll do some more tests and hopefully come up with some answers, but so far I think @deezid may be right about it being a denoising issue, either that or compression, or a combination of both. Either way it's something that shouldn't be too hard to fix with a firmware update.

[Emanuel]

5 minutes ago, The ghost of squig said:

I'm not a hater, I noticed the issue a month ago and I didn't say anything publicly because I didn't have the time to do more tests at that time. It wasn't until after I saw the thread on the BMD forum that I posted my tests. As soon as there's a blue sky I'll do some more tests and hopefully come up with some answers, but so far I think @deezid may be right about it being a denoising issue, either that or compression, or a combination of both. Either way it's something that shouldn't be too hard to fix with a firmware update.

Neither you and me. We've been a very supportive basis Blackmagic has had in the forums we participate for years! As much as Andrew, BTW. It is a shame the brand doesn't recognize the voice of their loyal backers outside their own bubble as due. Only when someone makes it louder... perhaps.

[The ghost of squig]

7 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Neither you and me. We've been a very supportive basis Blackmagic has had in the forums we participate for years! As much as Andrew, BTW. It is a shame the brand doesn't recognize the voice of their loyal backers outside their own bubble as due. Only when someone makes it louder... perhaps.

I shot some low light footage last night and I'm very happy with the results. 3200 ISO speed boosted shooting is one of the primary things I bought it for, and I chose to shoot with it last night because my testing confirmed it performs better than the 5DMk3 ML raw and the X-T3 in low light. Sunny days: not so much ?

[Emanuel]

12 minutes ago, The ghost of squig said:

I shot some low light footage last night and I'm very happy with the results. 3200 ISO speed boosted shooting is one of the primary things I bought it for, and I chose to shoot with it last night because my testing confirmed it performs better than the 5DMk3 ML raw and the X-T3 in low light. Sunny days: not so much ?

Yes, this camera is a low light beast indeed : ) To admit it where shines, to not be silent when it is time to open the mouth. This is nothing but truth : -) At times, there are several of them to compete amongst each other. Sometimes, it is a way more simple than that... : -D

[harry henry]

29 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Yes, this camera is a low light beast indeed : ) To admit it where shines, to not be silent when it is time to open the mouth. This is nothing but truth : -) At times, there are several of them to compete amongst each other. Sometimes, it is a way more simple than that... : -D

So when can you post something you've shot.Just go out side shot something with a BMD camera and post it . pretty simple thing to do. 

 

[Andrew Reid]

On 7/2/2019 at 2:47 AM, majoraxis said:

If it is the newer hardware version of Pocket 4k with the updated LCD panel, then it will not work with firmware older than 6.2.1, so you can't roll it back to get the Cinema DNG recording options.

Here's how you tell, if you purchased your Pocket 4K new and it came with 6.2.1 factory installed, then you can not roll it back to 6.1 and get the Cinema DNG recording options.  I tried it and it said something like your camera is up to date.

Pocket 4k v1 - Cinema DNG enabled firmware rollback is allowed if you have access to firmware 6.1 or older.

Pock 4k v2 - Cinema DNG recoding options are not included and it is not possible to roll back the firmware to get them.

Where's Vitaliy Kiselev when you need him?

As it's FFPGA update, probably not a good idea to have a hack go wrong though.

So to clarify this, if you got a Pocket 4K early on and it came with 6.1 or older, you can swap and choose between the latest firmware and old one... What if latest firmware at some point installs a software update which prevents rollback? Bit risky if you ask me.

I'll stick with CDNG and watch the eBay resale value sky rocket

[Emanuel]

1 hour ago, harry henry said:

So when can you post something you've shot.Just go out side shot something with a BMD camera and post it . pretty simple thing to do. 

 

What's your beef here, man? Do you think I am not a P4K camera owner/user? Is that what you're insinuating? Why that? Someone has given you instructions for that? Is that so?

First off, it is me who pays my bills, not you or anyone else here to begin with. I am usually to be paid or I invest my own money for. Neither one of both is represented in this request of yours.

Maybe you think I am trolling over here trying to bash your product? If you'd be serious on here or an usual reader you'd well know I've never had such attitude. Either to this or any other camera or piece of gear... Go figure for my fav cam ever! : P You haven't read my posts, I see, I don't blame you for that though, no hard feelings! : -)

 

Moreover, I didn't report any issue in any way other than reading the issue brought by that other fellow user aka squig (I won't even call him now by his first name I am used to for years for a simple reason, I don't trust your intentions. Who are you? Who pays you to be here?) followed by another user who posted a link for another thread in your forum, I bet; not a brand agnostic oasis like this one. My first reaction to his post was a surprise. Go back a few pages:

Need to do better your home work! LOL ; -)