Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[mercer]

Please don’t advertise you’re an American, it makes the rest of us look bad.

Hahaha... just kidding. 

I’m almost convinced Skip77 (and possibly ZachGoodwin2) are alter egos of somebody on this site having a laugh.

[Mattias Burling]

18 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

You guys don't like AMERICANS and that's all this is.  

Ha ha ha, what an epic clown you are... 

I guess if I told you I've lived in the US you would deny it just like all the other lies you tell as soon as your wrong.

I thought you would wake up yesterday when no one answered in your favor when you and I asked the forum if they agreed with you.. but I guess that's just further confirmation of your troll status.

(And I think it's sweet that you still try with personal attacks even though it only makes us laugh )

14 minutes ago, mercer said:

Please don’t advertise you’re an American, it makes the rest of us look bad.

Hahaha... just kidding. 

I’m almost convinced Skip77 (and possibly ZachGoodwin2) are alter egos of somebody on this site having a laugh.

Yup, I won't mention any names but I've had a prime suspect for a while on "Skip The Judder 77" true identity

[leslie]

14 hours ago, Skip77 said:

What Sony and Nikon models are you looking forward to?

MFT lens won't cover the APS-C sensor, right?  

I think and have sen a better argument for EF mount and lens for the P6k then the other way around.  MFT P4K users are more vocal but the side by side samples sow better detail and clarity on the P6K EF mount.  You can't get detail back if the P4K can't capture it. 

The P4K looks great until you compare it to the P6K.  (detail wise). 

welll duh..... the 6k is nearly double the price you would expect it to better.

pretty sure the p4k can capture it... you must be doing something wrong.

technically the only thing being vocal is you!! I would bet most of us p4k owners are happy chappies, but perhaps not everyone. Not sure what your game is, and honestly i dont care.

I guess 4k isnt enough for you. 6k should compensate for whatever it  is your lacking. ?

[Skip77]

22 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Ha ha ha, what an epic clown you are... 

I guess if I told you I've lived in the US you would deny it just like all the other lies you tell as soon as your wrong.

 

Living in America doesn't mean you like Americans does it?

The question you asked the EOS wasn't what I commented about and you seemed flustered and triggered in your last 3-4 post. You commenting on how RedCode is great and Canon can't do RAW shows you don't know much about RED or Canon. 

Why do you keep taking shots at me?  I haven't posted comments directed at you, I didn't start any new conversations with you. 

 

12 minutes ago, leslie said:

welll duh..... the 6k is nearly double the price you would expect it to better.

pretty sure the p4k can capture it... you must be doing something wrong.

technically the only thing being vocal is you!! I would bet most of us p4k owners are happy chappies, but perhaps not everyone. Not sure what your game is, and honestly i dont care.

I guess 4k isnt enough for you. 6k should compensate for whatever it  is your lacking. ?

Why do you take issue with me defending the P6K?  

Why take personal shots at me?  Did I ever post comments to you that offended you? No, so why get nasty with me?

[Skip77]

1 hour ago, Mattias Burling said:

Ha ha ha, what an epic clown you are... 

I guess if I told you I've lived in the US you would deny it just like all the other lies you tell as soon as your wrong.

I thought you would wake up yesterday when no one answered in your favor when you and I asked the forum if they agreed with you.. but I guess that's just further confirmation of your troll status.

(And I think it's sweet that you still try with personal attacks even though it only makes us laugh )

Yup, I won't mention any names but I've had a prime suspect for a while on "Skip The Judder 77" true identity

I am not a former EOS member. Sorry to burst your bubble.  How many other people did you have issue with?

[Skip77]

2 hours ago, Skip77 said:

Andrew why's this guy allowed to use this language ?

 

[Mattias Burling]

1 hour ago, Skip77 said:

Living in America doesn't mean you like Americans does it?

Lol, Of course not. But it would be a very strange decision to move there if I didn't.

14 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

Andrew why's this guy allowed to use this language ?

 

2 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Because you are trolling and deserve it?

 

[dslnc]

Is it just me or would a P6K with Sony E-mount be much more interesting than the current EF version?

[drm]

49 minutes ago, dslnc said:

Is it just me or would a P6K with Sony E-mount be much more interesting than the current EF version?

Yep, but Sony doesn't license the E-mount to any other companies. As several others have commented, an original mount like the Kinefinity would have been pretty cool.

[kye]

9 hours ago, drm said:

After using both the P4K & P6K cameras for a bit, I do not believe that the P6K is an upgrade to the P4K. It is a sibling or cousin to the P4K. There are advantages to both. If I had to pick only one, I don't know which I would pick. If I could only take one on a trip, I would currently probably take the P4K, because I have a much larger selection of M4/3 lenses. I am positive that either one will give you great footage, if you do your part.

I bet we will end up with three cameras in the P4K line: M4/3, Super35, & Full frame

$1,295, $2,495, $3,495

 

A FF version would be very interesting indeed, and now we have the S35 6K version it seems much more possible than previously.

@androidlad if this were part of BMs plans, is there any likely sensor they would use, or are there simply too many to be able to predict?  (I have no idea about such things).  If we are able to make a prediction it might give us clues as to what kind of feature-set it might have perhaps?

A FF P8K perhaps?

7 hours ago, deezid said:

Anyone interested?

This Lut fixes the brown tint, gamut clipping, roll-off issues, skin etc. and is made to look similar to RED IPP2 Soft Rec709 conversion - a conversion Lut to RedWideGamut/RedLog3G10 for a native IPP2 workflow is also provided.

Can't wait to hold the Pocket 6K in my own hands - seems like it's more color accurate.

 

Do we know if there's a change in the colour science from P4K to P6K?  or maybe sensor / sensor stack related?

[drm]

46 minutes ago, kye said:

Do we know if there's a change in the colour science from P4K to P6K?  or maybe sensor / sensor stack related?

The colors look extremely close between the P4K and the P6K. If you look really carefully I see small differences. I was swapping between the Blackmagic V4 LUTs for the P4K and the P6K in Resolve earlier today on some P6K footage. You can see a very subtle difference in the colors between the two LUTs. When I flip between two shots of the same scene (P4K vs. P6K), I don't notice it, but swapping the LUTs on one clip made it visible. I think BM did a great job matching the colors, considering the cameras contain different sensors.

This probably won't tell you anything, but this is a side-by-side shot from Resolve of a P4K-120fps clip and P6K-120fps clip.

[thebrothersthre3]

MFT seems like the logical choice even over Sony E mount. I mean why not. 

[leslie]

 

53 minutes ago, drm said:

The colors look extremely close between the P4K and the P6K. If you look really carefully I see small differences. I was swapping between the Blackmagic V4 LUTs for the P4K and the P6K in Resolve earlier today on some P6K footage. You can see a very subtle difference in the colors between the two LUTs. When I flip between two shots of the same scene (P4K vs. P6K), I don't notice it, but swapping the LUTs on one clip made it visible. I think BM did a great job matching the colors, considering the cameras contain different sensors.

maybe the sensors are from the same family  ? so to speak  which would make the colour and matching easier.

44 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

MFT seems like the logical choice even over Sony E mount. I mean why not. 

if they had gone with mft we could throw a speed booster on it quite easily. i have to wonder what kind of beast that would be ? Seeing as bm only make cameras you have to think they would make it easy to fit the largest amount of lenses available compliant with the sensor in mind as who knows what the purchaser would want to stick on the front of it. Personally i would have liked for bmd to provide a roadmap before they announced the p4k. Something like we gonna do a 4k first then 6k and perhaps a full frame later.  I might have been still saving my money for a 6k if that had been the case. but i don't resent buying the p4k. you cant just hold your breath  till the next great thing arrives, well i cant anyway lol.

i had a chance to wander into jb hifi a couple of days ago, they have 1 8k tv they can sell you, everything else is 4k. so i kinda dont get the whole 6k thing, tv's will be 4k or 8k from what i can see from the retail shop so what is 6k supposed to do ? Sure it gives you the option of reframing in post if you have to. or downscale to to 4k or upscale 8k perhaps. Is this a half camera thats  meant to do every thing ? i actually haven't really followed the 6k thing at all. Maybe i'm in denial, perhaps i dont want to know. I cant see how i have lost money by getting the p4k i think it does an excellent job for the price i payed. What the 6k would give me i'm just not sure of

[drm]

46 minutes ago, leslie said:

so i kinda dont get the whole 6k thing

The sensor in most digital cameras don't capture all of the colors at each pixel (not including Foveon). The cameras use a Bayer pattern, like the attached image, to record the color information. So, a typical 4K image doesn't have the color information for a "real" 4K image. They use a bunch of fancy math to estimate the colors in places where they don't have a reading. It is estimated that you need an image about 1.4 times larger than your final resolution in order to have proper colors. So, with a 6K image, you down sample that to a 4K image and you should get a sharper image and better colors. There are not many TVs on which you can display your 6K images at their normal resolution, but the extra resolution is useful.

[leslie]

9 hours ago, Skip77 said:

The post you just made is trolling.  

I made no comments directed at you.

You guys don't like AMERICANS and that's all this is.  You all ran off @webrunner5 because of his views and you attack me for saying the same-things camera related comments that other people post about. 

 

You might want to create a few more new click - bait titles for your You Tube channel instead of bothering with me. 

i liked webrunner, i will miss him...  and no doubt  he had a lot of experience that he tried to or could have imparted to the forum. Having said that he was about as tactful as a sledgehammer and it was his way or the highway. Personally i don't think that cuts it in this day and age. Sometimes a line has to be drawn in the sand a point to which someone will go to but no further.  A camera forum is not a battlefield, and its not life or death either. if you cant distinguish between the two your probably missing the whole point of having a camera in the first place.  

mercer is american i believe I dont have hate for him ? in fact of the entire forum, he seems to be living the dream. We regularly get posts or updates on his progress what can you show us ?

[Kisaha]

5 hours ago, leslie said:

 i had a chance to wander into jb hifi a couple of days ago, they have 1 8k tv they can sell you, everything else is 4k. so i kinda dont get the whole 6k thing, tv's will be 4k or 8k from what i can see from the retail shop so what is 6k supposed to do ? Sure it gives you the option of reframing in post if you have to. or downscale to to 4k or upscale 8k perhaps. Is this a half camera thats  meant to do every thing ? i actually haven't really followed the 6k thing at all. Maybe i'm in denial, perhaps i dont want to know. I cant see how i have lost money by getting the p4k i think it does an excellent job for the price i payed. What the 6k would give me i'm just not sure of

Do not overthink about it.

How can you loose financially when the P4K is half the money, and costs so little anyway? And already use it for sometime, which again costs something on the bigger scheme of things.

6K is a special case but we will have 8K cameras on reasonable prices as soon as October (Z cam), so if you want to save money for something, start saving for the next Pocket 8K next year!

Some people will get the P6K, I really doubt it will reach the P4K phenomenon. Not even the 8K - when it comes. 4K will be good for a lot of years, and do not forget that P6K has on average X2.4 more data to handle (if I remember right), so better and bigger and faster - and more expensive - camera media, a very powerful editing suite, and a lot a lot of hard drives.

Also, there is a mismatch with resolutions and codecs on the 6K, do not know why and if and when that will change.

Battery life seems to be even shorter on the 6K, a bit bigger and a bit heavier (700 something to 900 something is a significant increase) camera.

The EF can be perfect for some when thinking S35 all their lives, but this is a X1.6 camera, while the P4K an X1.9, the difference is a lot smaller than a proper X1.4-X1.5 S35 sensor and a X2.0 normal m43 one.

Also, amazing Lucadapter turns it into X1.1 but you can't take it off easily to use EF-S lenses, and I know a lot of people having EF-S from their C100 days, so it is not such a straightforward option as an m43 adapter, which can be anything from X0.64 to X0.75 to vND dumb adapter to a simple X2.0.

What I am saying is that it isn't as simple as "6K is better than 4K, I am getting the 6K", there are a lot of variables to consider. 

Usually a bigger sensor is the best, but the EF mount is kind of limiting in this age, and the P4K's sensor is already a monster in low light, speedboosted you gain another stop, so one of the huge difference of the past isn't a factor anymore.

I am trying to make my case on my mind, I can afford the P6K and I am building a new PC soon, but do I really have to go to 6K? That means I will have to shoot 6K for braw? I will also love to use m43 zooms for run and gun, have you seen how small and light those are?

My biggest issue is the 1080 deliveries and live events I shoot from time to time. This is the most dissapointing factor for me of these cameras. 95% of what I do I deliver in 1080p, even if I take it down to 80% this year, I still need great 1080p cameras. Imagine an 150minutes event that I use 3-4 cameras usually.

[thephoenix]

 

[dslnc]

3 hours ago, Kisaha said:

 

My biggest issue is the 1080 deliveries and live events I shoot from time to time. This is the most dissapointing factor for me of these cameras. 95% of what I do I deliver in 1080p, even if I take it down to 80% this year, I still need great 1080p cameras. Imagine an 150minutes event that I use 3-4 cameras usually.

With the p4k 1080p in prores is great. Both oversampling and crop

[drm]

4 hours ago, Kisaha said:

My biggest issue is the 1080 deliveries and live events I shoot from time to time. This is the most dissapointing factor for me of these cameras. 95% of what I do I deliver in 1080p, even if I take it down to 80% this year, I still need great 1080p cameras. Imagine an 150minutes event that I use 3-4 cameras usually.

Kisaha, I do this all the time. It really isn't that big of a deal. Virtually all of my events are at least 3 cam events. I set the time codes on each camera and syncing later is a breeze. You will invest in more storage and soon not think much about it. I have in excess of 100TB of storage, plus online storage (S3, etc.)

As for which cam for a live event like that, I believe that I would personally bring the P4K - mostly without a speed booster. There are some really good zooms for M4/3, like the Panasonic 35-100 f/2.8 or the Olympus 40-150 f/2.8. That would give you good low light performance in a portable package. Although, in an event like that, I would really lean toward something like an A7iii for the really good low light performance and much superior focusing ability.

But, yes. The editing will take longer with the 6K footage and the storage requirements are at least double. On my machines, I have noticed little difference in playback in Resolve between the P4K and the P6K footage. All of our machines are at least 4Ghz, quad-core processors, with SSDs, so they aren't beasts, but are decent spec'd machines.

[TurboRat]

1 hour ago, drm said:

Kisaha, I do this all the time. It really isn't that big of a deal. Virtually all of my events are at least 3 cam events. I set the time codes on each camera and syncing later is a breeze. You will invest in more storage and soon not think much about it. I have in excess of 100TB of storage, plus online storage (S3, etc.)

As for which cam for a live event like that, I believe that I would personally bring the P4K - mostly without a speed booster. There are some really good zooms for M4/3, like the Panasonic 35-100 f/2.8 or the Olympus 40-150 f/2.8. That would give you good low light performance in a portable package. Although, in an event like that, I would really lean toward something like an A7iii for the really good low light performance and much superior focusing ability.

But, yes. The editing with take longer with the 6K footage and the storage requirements are at least double. On my machines, I have noticed no difference in playback in Resolve between the P4K and the P6K footage. All of our machines are at least 4Ghz, quad-core processors, with SSDs, so they aren't beasts, but are decent spec'd machines.

How much do you pay for your online storage? S3 I assume is AWS?